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Permanently twinkling eyes - haresfur - Apr 23, 2018 - 3:44pm
 
Freedom of speech? - Steely_D - Apr 23, 2018 - 3:16pm
 
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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Freedom of speech? Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
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Steely_D
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Location: Biscayne Bay
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Posted: Apr 23, 2018 - 3:16pm

 ziggytrix wrote:

I thought it was spot-on.

Could you elaborate on how active efforts to deny a platform to abhorrent messages is a problem? I'll start you with a hypothetical example.

Let's say I'm a really passionate believer that people who post on the internet using handles of the format Adjective + Numeral should be chemically and/or physically castrated (for whatever absurd reason). BillG sees me posting horrible (in his opinion) things directed not specifically at you, but very obviously generally about "those adjective-numeral people", and deletes it from his website. How is this a problem?

 
Now this bleeds into the civil rights argument. Remember that Rand Paul wasn't a proponent of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I believe his thought was that the government shouldn't regulate what businesses must do - such as serve people of all races. Right or wrong ethically, it's that the government should not get involved in business practices in that way. Superficially I think he's got a point, that we shouldn't legislate what businesses choose to do/not do.

So, should BillG ban people with exclusive or insulting or divisive opinions? If you take Rand Paul's approach, the answer is: it's a business. BillG can do any damn thing he pleases. If it's not a valid business model, then it'll fail on its own.

Or should we legislate what BillG can do when he sets up a forum? Tell him what he can/can't allow? Bring in the FCC?

—-

Finishing up the Rand Paul thing, a little deeper: if they allowed businesses to be racist, as they were then, then the unwanted minorities in an area would be unable to get some staples - like groceries or gas. "You have to go to the colored store for your food" "But, there is no colored grocery store?!" or the colored gas station, etc. I can see where the Civil rights Act was very important in making sure that we didn't exclude races/religions/genders/etc from the marketplace for their own survival - even though it's "modified" capitalism. Rand Paul avoids that inhumane consequence of letting the marketplace make the decisions.



ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell
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Posted: Apr 23, 2018 - 2:47pm

 ziggytrix wrote:

I thought it was spot-on.

Could you elaborate on how active efforts to deny a platform to abhorrent messages is a problem? I'll start you with a hypothetical example.

Let's say I'm a really passionate believer that people who post on the internet using handles of the format Adjective + Numeral should be chemically and/or physically castrated (for whatever absurd reason). BillG sees me posting horrible (in his opinion) things directed not specifically at you, but very obviously generally about "those adjective-numeral people", and deletes it from his website. How is this a problem?

 
Dial back the egregiousness of the speech a little and see if your premise still works.
ziggytrix
unserious inquiries only
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Location: Dallas, TX
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Posted: Apr 23, 2018 - 2:19pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
I was really disappointed in Mr. Munroe when I saw this.

It is willfully obtuse. It doesn't accurately describe the problem. The controversy is not about unpopular messages being ignored, disagreed with, or criticized—it's about active efforts to prevent people from ever hearing them.

 
I thought it was spot-on.

Could you elaborate on how active efforts to deny a platform to abhorrent messages is a problem? I'll start you with a hypothetical example.

Let's say I'm a really passionate believer that people who post on the internet using handles of the format Adjective + Numeral should be chemically and/or physically castrated (for whatever absurd reason). BillG sees me posting horrible (in his opinion) things directed not specifically at you, but very obviously generally about "those adjective-numeral people", and deletes it from his website. How is this a problem?
Lazy8
human
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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 9:37am

 n4ku wrote:
...

I was really disappointed in Mr. Munroe when I saw this.

It is willfully obtuse. It doesn't accurately describe the problem. The controversy is not about unpopular messages being ignored, disagreed with, or criticized—it's about active efforts to prevent people from ever hearing them.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 8:15am

 n4ku wrote:
...

 
+1
n4ku

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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 8:13am

...
ScottFromWyoming
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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 8:03am

 kurtster wrote:

It's ok with me, too ... as long as she allows her students the same freedom to express their views and not penalize them with disrespect in the classroom or with unfair grades should they disagree with her.

 
If they disagree with her outside the classroom, correct. In the classroom, it's her job to direct the conversation, it's not supposed to be all-voices-are-valid.
sirdroseph
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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 5:22am

 kurtster wrote:

It's ok with me, too ... as long as she allows her students the same freedom to express their views and not penalize them with disrespect in the classroom or with unfair grades should they disagree with her.

 




That is actually a different scenario, that would be unfairly using her position of power and influence over her students and being unprofessional in the workplace. That type of behavior would be infringing on her students right of free speech not to mention subjective indoctrination of young impressionable minds. I went from being raised to be a conservative though naturally and inherently completely denying bigotry and racism from the littlest shorty to being a full fledged indoctrinated liberal Democrat after college. Then as I gained true life experience in real world sitchyashuns, I realized to freely allow yourself to be a label is quite foolish. Life is so much more complex than that and so are we.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 5:21am

 kurtster wrote:
It's ok with me, too ... as long as she allows her students the same freedom to express their views and not penalize them with disrespect in the classroom or with unfair grades should they disagree with her.
 
i agree

as foolish as she sounds, firing her probably wouldn't change her position

if someone peacefully confronted her with a little bit of reason and logic, she might even understand the error of her ways

or at least we can hope so...
kurtster

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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 5:08am

 sirdroseph wrote:
 miamizsun wrote:
people make mistakes...

Fresno State Shouldn't Fire a Professor for Saying She's Glad Barbara Bush Died


Fresno President Joseph Castro said in a statement that Jarrar's comments were "made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State," and "are obviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respect and empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincere commitment to mutual understanding and progress."

But this statement has not satisfied the many conservatives on Twitter who want Fresno to fire her. Disappointingly, The Daily Wire­—the conservative website run by Ben Shapiro—also seems to want something more from Fresno. The Daily Wire's Ryan Saavedra writes:

The key line in Fresno State's statement is: "Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State." That line most likely signals that the university is not going to take a hard stand over the hateful remarks from this professor who mocked the death of an American icon and rejoiced in the suffering of her family.



 

I agree she was using Bush's death in a self indulgent look at me and how cool I am with my totally inapprops statement or in other words as the kids say, she was thirsty. lol Tacky, but it is an infringement of her 1st amendment right as a private citizen for her to lose her job over this. Cause that's just her opinion, man.

 
It's ok with me, too ... as long as she allows her students the same freedom to express their views and not penalize them with disrespect in the classroom or with unfair grades should they disagree with her.
sirdroseph
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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 4:37am

 sdwright wrote:
Speechify!
Image result for first amendment


 





That freedom of assembly should not come at the cost of public safety though. Our peaceful little town is being invaded by the same Neo Nazi bunch that totally ruined Charlottesville emotionally and financially. I heard they were banned from the state of Virginia and our Mayor, local council and police are going to just allow them to saunter in here and fvck everything up?? We have filed an injunction, but it don't look good, they are flying under the banner of free speech, but this is inciting violence straight up.
sirdroseph
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Posted: Apr 19, 2018 - 4:33am

 miamizsun wrote:
people make mistakes...

Fresno State Shouldn't Fire a Professor for Saying She's Glad Barbara Bush Died


Fresno President Joseph Castro said in a statement that Jarrar's comments were "made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State," and "are obviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respect and empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincere commitment to mutual understanding and progress."

But this statement has not satisfied the many conservatives on Twitter who want Fresno to fire her. Disappointingly, The Daily Wire­—the conservative website run by Ben Shapiro—also seems to want something more from Fresno. The Daily Wire's Ryan Saavedra writes:

The key line in Fresno State's statement is: "Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State." That line most likely signals that the university is not going to take a hard stand over the hateful remarks from this professor who mocked the death of an American icon and rejoiced in the suffering of her family.



 





I agree she was using Bush's death in a self indulgent look at me and how cool I am with my totally inapprops statement or in other words as the kids say, she was thirsty. lol Tacky, but it is an infringement of her 1st amendment right as a private citizen for her to lose her job over this. Cause that's just her opinion, man.


miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2018 - 3:15pm

people make mistakes...

Fresno State Shouldn't Fire a Professor for Saying She's Glad Barbara Bush Died


Fresno President Joseph Castro said in a statement that Jarrar's comments were "made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State," and "are obviously contrary to the core values of our University, which include respect and empathy for individuals with divergent points of view, and a sincere commitment to mutual understanding and progress."

But this statement has not satisfied the many conservatives on Twitter who want Fresno to fire her. Disappointingly, The Daily Wire­—the conservative website run by Ben Shapiro—also seems to want something more from Fresno. The Daily Wire's Ryan Saavedra writes:

The key line in Fresno State's statement is: "Her statements were made as a private citizen, not as a representative of Fresno State." That line most likely signals that the university is not going to take a hard stand over the hateful remarks from this professor who mocked the death of an American icon and rejoiced in the suffering of her family.


sdwright
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 4:29pm

Speechify!
Image result for first amendment

miamizsun

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 7:49am

 Coaxial wrote:

I enjoyed that Hate Trap video you posted...It was a good discussion on the topic, thanks.

 
thx!


 Lazy8 wrote:
 When I look at coaxial, miamizsun is not the first thing to pop into my mind.

If they had ever met they might have both disappeared in a blinding flash and a very loud noise.
  

Coaxial
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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 5:06am

 miamizsun wrote:




 
I enjoyed that Hate Trap video you posted...It was a good discussion on the topic, thanks.
miamizsun

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Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 4:58am

 Steely_D wrote:

He was a cruel man. Cruel but fair.

 


Steely_D
Angular banjoes sound good to me.
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Posted: Feb 18, 2018 - 11:12am

 oldviolin wrote:

Brutal

 
He was a cruel man. Cruel but fair.
Coaxial
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Posted: Feb 18, 2018 - 9:45am

 oldviolin wrote:

Brutal

 
The truth is not always kind.
oldviolin
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Posted: Feb 18, 2018 - 9:44am

 Steely_D wrote:

I think we can all agree on that.

 
Brutal
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