Trump - R_P - May 22, 2018 - 7:24pm
 
BACK TO THE 80's - R_P - May 22, 2018 - 7:16pm
 
Guns - kcar - May 22, 2018 - 7:12pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - May 22, 2018 - 7:00pm
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - BlueHeronDruid - May 22, 2018 - 6:38pm
 
TV shows you watch - kcar - May 22, 2018 - 6:12pm
 
How To Be Politically Correct, A Primer - R_P - May 22, 2018 - 4:09pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - Antigone - May 22, 2018 - 3:16pm
 
oh boy CAKE! - haresfur - May 22, 2018 - 2:49pm
 
New Music - JrzyTmata - May 22, 2018 - 12:52pm
 
what about those emo kids? - Proclivities - May 22, 2018 - 11:27am
 
What makes you smile? - Steely_D - May 22, 2018 - 10:56am
 
When are you too old to drive? - meower - May 22, 2018 - 10:27am
 
Back to the 00's - rhahl - May 22, 2018 - 10:21am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - kurtster - May 22, 2018 - 7:14am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - sunybuny - May 22, 2018 - 6:52am
 
XPRIZE & Singularity University - miamizsun - May 22, 2018 - 4:12am
 
Milk squirting in Turkey??? - miamizsun - May 22, 2018 - 4:06am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - Contaminator - May 22, 2018 - 12:45am
 
Your Current Crush - Alexandra - May 21, 2018 - 11:12pm
 
Immigration - haresfur - May 21, 2018 - 11:11pm
 
Ridiculous or Funny Spam - R_P - May 21, 2018 - 10:50pm
 
Those Silly FBI Guys! - ScottFromWyoming - May 21, 2018 - 10:21pm
 
"Everybody Must Get Stoned" actually not about drugs - Manbird - May 21, 2018 - 8:44pm
 
International Year of Rumi - 2007 - oldviolin - May 21, 2018 - 6:30pm
 
Evolution! - R_P - May 21, 2018 - 6:07pm
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - May 21, 2018 - 6:00pm
 
Fake News*  ?  ! - R_P - May 21, 2018 - 5:34pm
 
Coffee - Manbird - May 21, 2018 - 5:33pm
 
The Great Divide: Retro vs. Metro America - Manbird - May 21, 2018 - 5:28pm
 
Toodledo and/or OpenID - Manbird - May 21, 2018 - 5:18pm
 
Fun For Fingers - Manbird - May 21, 2018 - 5:12pm
 
• • • Lost and Found • • •  - Manbird - May 21, 2018 - 5:09pm
 
Annoying stuff. not things that piss you off, just annoyi... - haresfur - May 21, 2018 - 4:03pm
 
PANTS ON FIRE! - miamizsun - May 21, 2018 - 3:53pm
 
What Makes You Laugh? - haresfur - May 21, 2018 - 2:37pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - haresfur - May 21, 2018 - 2:36pm
 
illegal immigrants - R_P - May 21, 2018 - 2:29pm
 
The Obituary Page - R_P - May 21, 2018 - 1:40pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - May 21, 2018 - 1:38pm
 
Counting with Pictures - SeriousLee - May 21, 2018 - 10:55am
 
Bad Poetry - oldviolin - May 21, 2018 - 8:46am
 
Baseball, anyone? - zevon - May 21, 2018 - 7:44am
 
What are you reading now? - rhahl - May 21, 2018 - 7:12am
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - May 21, 2018 - 6:32am
 
Classical Music - R_P - May 20, 2018 - 9:01pm
 
Buying a Car - SeriousLee - May 20, 2018 - 6:58pm
 
BillyGee's Greatest Segues - SeriousLee - May 20, 2018 - 4:07pm
 
Stuff I've Said Out Loud - Antigone - May 20, 2018 - 2:46pm
 
PUNS - BIRDS - oldviolin - May 20, 2018 - 2:13pm
 
Race in America - R_P - May 20, 2018 - 1:52pm
 
Things You Thought Today - Antigone - May 20, 2018 - 12:00pm
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - Antigone - May 20, 2018 - 11:03am
 
Is Wikipedia Objective? - maryte - May 20, 2018 - 8:20am
 
More reggae, less Marley please - sirdroseph - May 20, 2018 - 6:26am
 
Beer - sirdroseph - May 20, 2018 - 6:23am
 
songs that ROCK! - R_P - May 20, 2018 - 2:03am
 
Iran - richskarma - May 19, 2018 - 11:05pm
 
Make me a stereo system! (poof!!) - Beaker - May 19, 2018 - 8:51pm
 
Radio Paradise on the Amazon Echo - jarro - May 19, 2018 - 4:30pm
 
RP Daily Trivia Challenge - maryte - May 19, 2018 - 10:52am
 
What Are You Grateful For? - triskele - May 19, 2018 - 5:47am
 
The Truth Unfolds - SeriousLee - May 19, 2018 - 4:52am
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - SeriousLee - May 19, 2018 - 4:26am
 
OMG how I hate the sound of Joni Mitchell singing.... - ColdMiser - May 19, 2018 - 4:17am
 
Name My Album - SeriousLee - May 19, 2018 - 2:08am
 
Unusual News - kcar - May 18, 2018 - 8:13pm
 
hallucinogenic drugs - kcar - May 18, 2018 - 8:07pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - May 18, 2018 - 3:01pm
 
Things We Shouldn't Have To Say - Steely_D - May 18, 2018 - 2:58pm
 
The Global War on Terror - R_P - May 18, 2018 - 1:17pm
 
Proposed Crime of the Century: - haresfur - May 18, 2018 - 1:08pm
 
Bitcoin - Steely_D - May 18, 2018 - 1:04pm
 
Rock Movies/Documentaries - Proclivities - May 18, 2018 - 11:43am
 
The War On Drugs = Fail - Proclivities - May 18, 2018 - 11:42am
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Roger Waters: Congress Shouldn’t Silence Human Rights Advocates [Palestine-Israel]
Post to this Topic
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 11, 2017 - 11:05am

 black321 wrote:

let's just say too political for me...mostly outside of his concerts but that wont keep me from seeing the show. 
In the past, he used the star (which is also a political symbol) along with crucifix, crescent moon, mercedes benz, mcdonalds logos....he wasnt picking on jews, but religions overall and capitalism/corporatism...which he has clearly explained.  Re. the BSD issue, i dont see it as a jewish/antisemite issue, but opposition to a specific government's actions...that he believes is suppressing the palestinians.  In the past he's been very vocal the US, UK, Russia...so why should israel be excluded? 

 
No, Israel should not be excluded.  In fact, one could argue that the Israeli nation building process/occupation of West Bank, etc. poses the single biggest threat to western rich country security.

It is how an artist like Waters goes about doing it that matters.  For one, what is the end game?  Israel may have been birthed by ethnic-cleansing Palestinian Jewish terrorists but the country is not going away.   Any likely resolution means that Israel retains at least all the territory it had acquired (by force) prior to 1967.

Moreover, this problem gets solved only with the active collaboration of large numbers of Israeli Jews and American Israeli supporters.

Recognizing Israeli sovereignty is the only way forward.  In that respect, Waters is not helping by refusing to play Israel.  
 
I agree strongly with Steven Wilson's attitude towards Israel which he expressed in this 2010 interview before Porcupine Tree was scheduled to play in.... Israel, again:

PORCUPINE TREE IN ISRAEL


Pasted excerpt:
“It’s very hypocritical of me, of course. But, there’s always that risk of cancellation. If the boat thing had happened this week instead of a month ago, who knows? The other guys don’t have personal attachments to Israel, but they are committed to doing the show, and we’re coming,” said Wilson, adding that the band had received numerous emails and appeals for them to cancel their upcoming show in Tel Aviv.

“I can understand the pressure other artists who cancelled must have felt.

We take the appeals seriously, but I’ve had to reconcile that with what I believe, from my experience in England, that the people of a country often differ intensely with what their government does.

“Just as British citizens objected to Tony Blair and the invasion of Iraq, I get a sense that the Israeli people are upset about what’s going on. You forget living outside of a country that the actions of the government are not the actions of the people. Why penalize the people who live in Israel for the actions of their government or their army? It doesn’t achieve anything. It’s a cliché that music rises above it all, and it’s a cliché for a reason – it’s very often true.”



black321
See For Yourself
black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Capricorn
Chinese Yr: Horse


Posted: Sep 11, 2017 - 6:25am

 westslope wrote:

The Star of David and cash signs apparently caused some offence.  It that symbolism was accidental or not insulting, then somebody please explain why.

Too political?  I am not sure that artists and musicians can ever get too political but they can mouth off on stuff they do not know or understand and come across as naive, gullible, populist or simply misleading.

One of my favourite novelists is a Marxist in a context where that usually meant Neo-Marxist whose analysis and policy prescriptions I oppose and whose track record is absolutely abysmal.  Did not stop me from enjoying his work or social insights.

Hope the concert went well.  None of this would stop me from seeing Roger Waters.  

 
let's just say too political for me...mostly outside of his concerts but that wont keep me from seeing the show. 
In the past, he used the star (which is also a political symbol) along with crucifix, crescent moon, mercedes benz, mcdonalds logos....he wasnt picking on jews, but religions overall and capitalism/corporatism...which he has clearly explained.  Re. the BSD issue, i dont see it as a jewish/antisemite issue, but opposition to a specific government's actions...that he believes is suppressing the palestinians.  In the past he's been very vocal the US, UK, Russia...so why should israel be excluded? 
sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Sep 9, 2017 - 10:07am

 westslope wrote:

The Star of David and cash signs apparently caused some offence.  It that symbolism was accidental or not insulting, then somebody please explain why.

Too political?  I am not sure that artists and musicians can ever get too political but they can mouth on stuff they do not know or understand and come across as naive, gullible, populist or simply misleading.

One of my favourite novelists is a Marxist in a context where that usually meant Neo-Marxist whose analysis and policy prescriptions I oppose and whose track record is absolutely abysmal.  Did not stop me from enjoying his work or social insights.

Hope the concert went well.  None of this would stop me from seeing Roger Waters.  

 





There is no such thing as being too political in the context of an individual expressing free speech. However as an artist who enjoys getting paid for creating art by means of the public purchasing concert tickets and buying their music, you sure can be if your public tires of hearing politics instead of music and your revenue stream suffers because of it. Not a judgment, just a factual possibility that could have an adverse effect on the artist wallet. Now, it may not matter to them if they are so wealthy they do not care or if they actually care about the issue more than their bank account so I suppose whether an artist is too political or not depends on their level of commitment to the cause or their philosophical outlook on whether art should be created for art's sake or to make money. So in essence whether an artist is too political or not is totally up to the artist and their fans.


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 9, 2017 - 9:18am

 black321 wrote:

I think Reg is a bit too political of late...but then again, the issue is getting publicity.  (i never saw anything offensive about any of the symbols used in the shows, and he certainly wasnt just picking on jews).

Regardless, i think his last few tours have been exceptional and am looking forward to next Friday. 

 
The Star of David and cash signs apparently caused some offence.  It that symbolism was accidental or not insulting, then somebody please explain why.

Too political?  I am not sure that artists and musicians can ever get too political but they can mouth off on stuff they do not know or understand and come across as naive, gullible, populist or simply misleading.

One of my favourite novelists is a Marxist in a context where that usually meant Neo-Marxist whose analysis and policy prescriptions I oppose and whose track record is absolutely abysmal.  Did not stop me from enjoying his work or social insights.

Hope the concert went well.  None of this would stop me from seeing Roger Waters.  


black321
See For Yourself
black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Capricorn
Chinese Yr: Horse


Posted: Sep 8, 2017 - 1:47pm

 westslope wrote:


You know, I wish Waters was that mercantile but I strongly suspect that he is genuine in his outlook and critique.  

Unfortunately Waters has this juvenile, naive attitude about "the man" and rich capitalist corporations and has employed very poorly chosen symbolism on occasion that recalls anti-Jewish bias once common in Europe and elsewhere.

In my opinion, Waters should play Israel.  Boycotting Israel artists and intellectuals and refusing to perform live in Israel will have little or no impact on the on-going Israel nation-building process and the 'rights' of Palestinians.  

 
I think Reg is a bit too political of late...but then again, the issue is getting publicity.  (i never saw anything offensive about any of the symbols used in the shows, and he certainly wasnt just picking on jews).

Regardless, i think his last few tours have been exceptional and am looking forward to next Friday. 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 8, 2017 - 12:57pm

 black321 wrote:
Nice...coverage in the NYT right ahead of next week's concerts.  Will be interesting to see what the pre-show scene is like. 

 

You know, I wish Waters was that mercantile but I strongly suspect that he is genuine in his outlook and critique.  

Unfortunately Waters has this juvenile, naive attitude about "the man" and rich capitalist corporations and has employed very poorly chosen symbolism on occasion that recalls anti-Jewish bias once common in Europe and elsewhere.

In my opinion, Waters should play Israel.  Boycotting Israel artists and intellectuals and refusing to perform live in Israel will have little or no impact on the on-going Israel nation-building process and the 'rights' of Palestinians.  
black321
See For Yourself
black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Capricorn
Chinese Yr: Horse


Posted: Sep 7, 2017 - 3:06pm

Nice...coverage in the NYT right ahead of next week's concerts.  Will be interesting to see what the pre-show scene is like. 


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 7, 2017 - 2:58pm


Roger Waters: Congress Shouldn’t Silence Human Rights Advocates