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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Taxes, Taxes, Taxes (and Taxes) Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 68, 69, 70  Next
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miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 1:16pm

 black321 wrote:
So we've already seen the stories that the new tax law may not benefit some middle class people.  But the corp tax changes also may not help many of the cos. that need it the most - less profitable and highly leveraged.  The rate drops to 21%, but there is also a limit on interest deductions to just 30% of earnings before taxes and depreciation, instead of 100% under the old law.  This limit may completely or more than offset the lower tax rate.  So, the law is a big win for the rich/strong, and hurts the weak. 
 
i don't think many folks really know

i'm sure it's a lot of the same old yadda

i did a quick gleaning of this

What the GOP Tax Bill Means for Libertarians

"It's basically reassembling deck chairs on a really messy and horribly complex system": Q&A with Chris Edwards, CATO's Director of Tax Policy





Gillespie: Give us your general score card. Is this good? Is it bad? Is it somewhere in between?

Edwards: The main driver here is the corporate tax reforms. The United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. The Republicans would slash the corporate tax rate down pretty dramatically down to 20% at the federal level.

Gillespie: And that's from 35%?

Edwards: From 35 down to 20%. That sounds pretty low, but actually the global average rate is only 24% today. If you think about the United States, we've got our federal rate, but we've got state corporate taxes on top up to about 10% or more. Even with the Republican cuts, we'd only just barely start getting competitive globally. That's the corporate stuff.

Gillespie: Before we get to the individual side, with the corporate stuff, one of the things that opponents of tax reform say is, 'So, corporations make a huge amount of money. They're solelists literally and figuratively.' Why are we cutting taxes on corporations and what is the thinking behind that? Why is that a good thing?

Edwards: You'll hear critics say, 'American corporations are usually profitable today. A lot of them are sitting on a big pile of cash. Why do they need tax cuts?' The reason is because corporations are forward looking. They think about building a new factory here versus in Mexico or China, and they look at that stream of future profits and they look at how much the government tax grab on that will be. They might be sitting on cash now, but the reason they're not investing it is because the U.S. corporate tax rate is so high. You cut the corporate tax rate, corporations at the margin, there would be more factories, more hiring will make more sense in the United States versus our competitors. They will invest more in the long run, and they'll build more factories. You build more factories, you got to hire more workers, the demand for U.S. workers will go up and then wages will rise.

Gillespie: This sounds like Trump's, but this is Trump's nightmare, because then suddenly people from Mexico are going to start coming back to the United States instead of leaving, which is what's happening.

Edwards: You know the demand for labor will go up a lot. The reality, Nick, is that even though the U.S. unemployment rate is pretty low now, our participation rate in the labor force has been falling, especially for middle-aged men for a number of decades now. We want to get a lot of those folks off the sidelines back in the workforce. I think the corporate tax cut really goes to that issue.




cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 10:49am

 black321 wrote:
So we've already seen the stories that the new tax law may not benefit some middle class people.  But the corp tax changes also may not help many of the cos. that need it the most - less profitable and highly leveraged.  The rate drops to 21%, but there is also a limit on interest deductions to just 30% of earnings before taxes and depreciation, instead of 100% under the old law.  This limit may completely or more than offset the lower tax rate.  So, the law is a big win for the rich/strong, and hurts the weak. 

 
Shocked...
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 9:37am

So we've already seen the stories that the new tax law may not benefit some middle class people.  But the corp tax changes also may not help many of the cos. that need it the most - less profitable and highly leveraged.  The rate drops to 21%, but there is also a limit on interest deductions to just 30% of earnings before taxes and depreciation, instead of 100% under the old law.  This limit may completely or more than offset the lower tax rate.  So, the law is a big win for the rich/strong, and hurts the weak. 


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 7:35pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 haresfur wrote:
Yeah, I know. Just wanted to point out that there are other ways of doing things.

Believe it or not we are aware of that.

We have, because of the federal system, a lot of latitude to experiment with alternate forms of government. Maine, for instance, has Ranked Choice Voting, a form of instant runoff. Louisiana based its law on the Napoleonic Code rather than English Common Law. There are numerous different taxation schemes; several states have no income tax, some have no sales tax, some exact excise taxes, some use severance taxes on extractive industries. Ooh, chaos! Yeah. It's also opportunity to try out ideas, sometimes even good ones.

 
 
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 5:34pm

 haresfur wrote:
Yeah, I know. Just wanted to point out that there are other ways of doing things.

Believe it or not we are aware of that.

We have, because of the federal system, a lot of latitude to experiment with alternate forms of government. Maine, for instance, has Ranked Choice Voting, a form of instant runoff. Louisiana based its law on the Napoleonic Code rather than English Common Law. There are numerous different taxation schemes; several states have no income tax, some have no sales tax, some exact excise taxes, some use severance taxes on extractive industries. Ooh, chaos! Yeah. It's also opportunity to try out ideas, sometimes even good ones.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 3:29pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 haresfur wrote:
Or you could do what most sane countries do and have the state/province/local or whatever taxes be paid as a fixed % of the Federal tax. Only have to fill out one form and it's a level playing field between jurisdictions.

Not gonna fly in the US. People make choices about where to live in part to balance the tax burden/paternalism tradeoff. The earning potential isn't uniform either; if I had to pay New York taxes on a Montana income I'd be even (materially) poorer than I am. If California tried to fund its government with, say, New Hampshire tax revenue it would have to be as efficient as New Hampshire and that ain't gonna happen either.

The playing field would eventually level out but only after massive shifts in population and a lot of industrial disruption.
 
Yeah, I know. Just wanted to point out that there are other ways of doing things.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 2:39pm

 haresfur wrote:
Or you could do what most sane countries do and have the state/province/local or whatever taxes be paid as a fixed % of the Federal tax. Only have to fill out one form and it's a level playing field between jurisdictions.

Not gonna fly in the US. People make choices about where to live in part to balance the tax burden/paternalism tradeoff. The earning potential isn't uniform either; if I had to pay New York taxes on a Montana income I'd be even (materially) poorer than I am. If California tried to fund its government with, say, New Hampshire tax revenue it would have to be as efficient as New Hampshire and that ain't gonna happen either.

The playing field would eventually level out but only after massive shifts in population and a lot of industrial disruption.

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 2:25pm

 black321 wrote:
Some high tax states are looking at making changes to get around the $10,000 SALT limit...reclassifying property tax as a charitable contribution, or eliminating income taxes and replace it with a payroll tax.  Loopholes, loopholes...

 
Or you could do what most sane countries do and have the state/province/local or whatever taxes be paid as a fixed % of the Federal tax. Only have to fill out one form and it's a level playing field between jurisdictions.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 1:36pm

 black321 wrote:
Some high tax states are looking at making changes to get around the $10,000 SALT limit...reclassifying property tax as a charitable contribution, or eliminating income taxes and replace it with a payroll tax.  Loopholes, loopholes...


when it comes to political power in dc, is there anything better than the comfort of a well greased loophole?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 1:17pm

Some high tax states are looking at making changes to get around the $10,000 SALT limit...reclassifying property tax as a charitable contribution, or eliminating income taxes and replace it with a payroll tax.  Loopholes, loopholes...
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2017 - 9:06am

 miamizsun wrote:

the debt is their power

and when i say their, i mean all politicians

their scam, to party on the credit card like it's 1999 and stick the future with the bill counts as leadership

and as incompetent as this nuttery is, people will still vote for it

brilliant! 

 
The debt is just a tool. But the people in charge of it are treating it like a candy bowl, when it's really an idling chainsaw. One of these days someone is going to lose a finger.  The debt as a percentage of GDP hasn't been this high since World War 2, and that was after we spent that money making stuff to blow stuff up.  Now we are going to add another trillion (give or take <- ) to it, we will be firmly in uncharted territory.  
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2017 - 7:19am

 haresfur wrote:

The debit is only a problem when Democrats are in power

 
the debt is their power

and when i say their, i mean all politicians

their scam, to party on the credit card like it's 1999 and stick the future with the bill counts as leadership

and as incompetent as this nuttery is, people will still vote for it

brilliant! 
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2017 - 5:02pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


 
The debit is only a problem when Democrats are in power
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Dec 16, 2017 - 4:24pm


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Nov 7, 2017 - 11:46am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

It's clear that almost nobody (or literally nobody) fully understood the "mathematics of complex risk management" in the years leading up to 2008. The fact that stocks are off to the races again doesn't really bring me comfort.

 
Good points.  But then American voting citizens were and still are fond of the mortgage interest tax deductions which strikes me as ludicrous.   

The US central bank has a dual mandate: price stability AND employment. Presumably literate Americans can read that most other rich western country central banks have adopted a single mandate — price stability — since the 1980s.    There is a vast literature on why central banks and monetary policy should not target employment.

US voters support the lowest excise taxes on diesel and gasoline among the rich OECD countries.  Is this good risk management?   The vast majority of economic recessions in the post-war period are correlated/preceded by spiking fuel prices (including late 2008).  High excise taxes would reduce if not eliminate that risk.

Is an obesity epidemic an indication of good public policy risk management?   Does the availability and efficacy of modern pain killers justify decisions to become obese?  

American low density suburbs are blowing back in terms of poor health, low social capital and in some regions, far higher probabilities of devastating, destructive wildfires.   Good risk management?   
FWIW, I could do the same for Canada.  The wildfires that BC experienced this summer highlight once again to what extent for rural BCers, the outdoors and the semi-wilderness is a picture postcard experience and that their understanding of natural processes and watershed ecology is poor to say the least.  Yet, like most of North America, tobacco, alcohol and automobiles firmly remain familiar, family-friendly ways that we hurt and kill ourselves.  

As for the current stock market valuations....  at first glance, I would agree but that is really another discussion.


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 6, 2017 - 10:30am

 westslope wrote:

With all due respect black321, but you do not understand financial risk management.  

I agree that venture capital markets can often look like zero-sum capitalism at its worst but adults can always choose to stay out of the venture capital and financial derivative markets. 

The big problem is that many individuals with insufficient education (particularly numeracy) and experience allow personal ambitions commonly called 'greed' by lay people to push them into markets they do not understand.  

Being able to do simple arithmetic does not mean that one understands the mathematics of complex risk management.  
Our freemarket capitalist system has outperformed all other systems precisely because it manages uncertainty and risk better than any other system by a wide margin.  These freemarket capitalist nation states have built more generous welfare states than anything else observed throughout history.
 
It's clear that almost nobody (or literally nobody) fully understood the "mathematics of complex risk management" in the years leading up to 2008. The fact that stocks are off to the races again doesn't really bring me comfort.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 6, 2017 - 8:59am

 westslope wrote:

With all due respect black321, but you do not understand financial risk management.  

I agree that venture capital markets can often look like zero-sum capitalism at its worst but adults can always choose to stay out of the venture capital and financial derivative markets. 

The big problem is that many individuals with insufficient education (particularly numeracy) and experience allow personal ambitions commonly called 'greed' by lay people to push them into markets they do not understand.  

Being able to do simple arithmetic does not mean that one understands the mathematics of complex risk management.  
Our freemarket capitalist system has outperformed all other systems precisely because it manages uncertainty and risk better than any other system by a wide margin.  These freemarket capitalist nation states have built more generous welfare states than anything else observed throughout history.

 

with derivates, not necessarily zero sum, but in aggregate for the economy, yes.  regardless, dont think that was what you were talking about...so carry on.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Nov 4, 2017 - 2:01pm

 westslope wrote:
I agree that venture capital markets can often look like zero-sum capitalism at its worst but adults can always choose to stay out of the venture capital and financial derivative markets.  (...)
 
If only...
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Nov 4, 2017 - 1:12pm

 black321 wrote:

used to speculate...creates a system where there is no longer just one winner and loser, but potentially multiple winners, or losers

 
With all due respect black321, but you do not understand financial risk management.  

I agree that venture capital markets can often look like zero-sum capitalism at its worst but adults can always choose to stay out of the venture capital and financial derivative markets. 

The big problem is that many individuals with insufficient education (particularly numeracy) and experience allow personal ambitions commonly called 'greed' by lay people to push them into markets they do not understand.  

Being able to do simple arithmetic does not mean that one understands the mathematics of complex risk management.  
Our freemarket capitalist system has outperformed all other systems precisely because it manages uncertainty and risk better than any other system by a wide margin.  These freemarket capitalist nation states have built more generous welfare states than anything else observed throughout history.


black321

black321 Avatar

Location: A sunset in the desert
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 3, 2017 - 6:22am

 westslope wrote:

2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.   Or financial derivatives used to manage risk?  

Point being?   

 
used to speculate...creates a system where there is no longer just one winner and loser, but potentially multiple winners, or losers
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