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Index » Regional/Local » Elsewhere » The naughty truth about Xmas Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
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samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 12:07pm

 jadewahoo wrote:

Early Christians were hunted down by the authorities and were likely to be imprisoned. Not, however, for their religious beliefs, but because they were notorious fish smugglers. The toe-drawing in the sand was a means of communicating a Q&A:
First toe drawing: Do you have fish for sale?
Second toe drawing: Yes.
If no toe drawing was forthcoming, the answer was clearly a "No."
All the subsequent parables told by Jesus and his Gang of Twelve were means of transmitting current fishing conditions, what types of fish were to be smuggled during the coming forays, and the prices, which were not under any circumstances to be discussed, nor transactions to take place, within the temples, as these were the domain of someone else's turf. And we all know that surf and turf is not a good combo.
 
  Oh Boo!



I can't believe I read the whole thing!

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 10:35am

 jadewahoo wrote:

Early Christians were hunted down by the authorities and were likely to be imprisoned. Not, however, for their religious beliefs, but because they were notorious fish smugglers. The toe-drawing in the sand was a means of communicating a Q&A:
First toe drawing: Do you have fish for sale?
Second toe drawing: Yes.
If no toe drawing was forthcoming, the answer was clearly a "No."
All the subsequent parables told by Jesus and his Gang of Twelve were means of transmitting current fishing conditions, what types of fish were to be smuggled during the coming forays, and the prices, which were not under any circumstances to be discussed, nor transactions to take place, within the temples, as these were the domain of someone else's turf. And we all know that surf and turf is not a good combo.
 
That was a long way to go for a joke. Bravo!

c.

jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 10:32am

 cc_rider wrote:
Additionally: the way I learned it, when speaking with a stranger, a Christian (Xian?) would drag his toe in the sand, apparently absent-mindedly, drawing an arc. A fellow Believer would recognize the arc as more than just boredom, and draw a corresponding arc in the sand to complete the symbol.
 
Early Christians were hunted down by the authorities and were likely to be imprisoned. Not, however, for their religious beliefs, but because they were notorious fish smugglers. The toe-drawing in the sand was a means of communicating a Q&A:
First toe drawing: Do you have fish for sale?
Second toe drawing: Yes.
If no toe drawing was forthcoming, the answer was clearly a "No."
All the subsequent parables told by Jesus and his Gang of Twelve were means of transmitting current fishing conditions, what types of fish were to be smuggled during the coming forays, and the prices, which were not under any circumstances to be discussed, nor transactions to take place, within the temples, as these were the domain of someone else's turf. And we all know that surf and turf is not a good combo.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 10:23am

 winter wrote:

Close.

Your acronym only works for English (Latin doesn't have a word for "the", and I don't believe classical Greek did, either), which is a problem since no one spoke it until centuries later.
 
I stand corrected. I knew the Greek acronym was much closer to the concept, I just hadn't bothered to Wiki it. The English version is a far stretch, obviously.

c.

winter

winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 10:04am

 cc_rider wrote:
I learned the fish symbol was sort of a word game, an acronym. Roughly translated as I-CH-TH-U-S, Jesus (no 'J' in Roman times) - CHrist - THe - Universal - Savior. It works better using Greek letters, but I'm too lazy to figure out how to type them here. 'Ichthys' is the Greek root of 'fish', so there you go. One suspects there are many tie-ins, but this seems the simplest and easiest explanation: a simple symbol

Additionally: the way I learned it, when speaking with a stranger, a Christian (Xian?) would drag his toe in the sand, apparently absent-mindedly, drawing an arc. A fellow Believer would recognize the arc as more than just boredom, and draw a corresponding arc in the sand to complete the symbol.

c.
 
Close.

Your acronym only works for English (Latin doesn't have a word for "the", and I don't believe classical Greek did, either), which is a problem since no one spoke it until centuries later.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 9:27am

 samiyam wrote:

It's most likely, based upon the fact that the "fish" was the symbol which the early Xians (who were usually more tuned into the mystery school which was the early Xian church) that Jeshwa was probably born in the time of Pisces...  Seeing as the Xian era was known by the proponents of the mystery schools as the "Age of Pisces" as opposed to the current "Age of Aquarius".


  I learned the fish symbol was sort of a word game, an acronym. Roughly translated as I-CH-TH-U-S, Jesus (no 'J' in Roman times) - CHrist - THe - Universal - Savior. It works better using Greek letters, but I'm too lazy to figure out how to type them here. 'Ichthys' is the Greek root of 'fish', so there you go. One suspects there are many tie-ins, but this seems the simplest and easiest explanation: a simple symbol

Additionally: the way I learned it, when speaking with a stranger, a Christian (Xian?) would drag his toe in the sand, apparently absent-mindedly, drawing an arc. A fellow Believer would recognize the arc as more than just boredom, and draw a corresponding arc in the sand to complete the symbol.

c.


samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 8:01am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I read somewhere pre-internets that astronomers had calculated that the star the magi followed was a comet, and the actual date was August 3. Maybe that's a little too precise but that's what stuck to my brain cells.
 
That sounds fairly accurate...  after-all, the star is supposedly a very important cosmic event...  Could be that they were already in Bethlahem for the taxing and decided to have the baby there.  The whole "born in a manger" thing smacked of Mithras and the subornation of the pagan cults.

triskele

triskele Avatar

Location: The Dragons' Roost


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:57am

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I read somewhere pre-internets that astronomers had calculated that the star the magi followed was a comet, and the actual date was August 3. Maybe that's a little too precise but that's what stuck to my brain cells.

that's one i have heard about too....(i once did a lot of research into the subject...like....a lot of years ago....) i like that theory, and it fits with others that speculate a summertime birth.

but there's also the fact that a comet can be visible over a stretch of time, and since the magi visited AFTER the birth, and it took them weeks to travel....it's all still very vague.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:56am

 triskele wrote:

the overlapping of festivals and celebrations in order to win converts was a brilliant thing to do. since the early church HAD to gain converts in order to survive, changing the calendar to accommodate said converts was the best way to grow in numbers.

i mean....hasn't research shown that it's possible that jesus christ was actually born in the summer some time?
 
I read somewhere pre-internets that astronomers had calculated that the star the magi followed was a comet, and the actual date was August 3. Maybe that's a little too precise but that's what stuck to my brain cells.

samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:55am

 jadewahoo wrote:
This will hapen the same day that  the cows and bulls home for milking {#Smile}

 
The rams come down to protect the ewes... it's instinctual... though they stand off, they'll be there.

(The human equivalent is the guy with the camcorder in the green gown makin' an ass of himself in the middle of a very busy room)



jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:46am

 samiyam wrote:

Well... if you follow the myth about being summoned by Caesar to be taxed, then it follows that you would be called together during the spring lambing season... when the ewes and rams come out of the hills to give birth.

That is, if you even believe that Jeshwa was an actual person and not a code name for the leader of the mystery school which was the early Xian church...

I prefer to believe in an actual person "the christ" etc.  But I think that's because I'm kinda sentimental that way.
  This will hapen the same day that  the cows and bulls home for milking {#Smile}


triskele

triskele Avatar

Location: The Dragons' Roost


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:43am

samiyam wrote:

Well... if you follow the myth about being summoned by Caesar to be taxed, then it follows that you would be called together during the spring lambing season... when the ewes and rams come out of the hills to give birth.

That is, if you even believe that Jeshwa was an actual person and not a code name for the leader of the mystery school which was the early Xian church...

I prefer to believe in an actual person "the christ" etc. But I think that's because I'm kinda sentimental that way.
i do believe in the actual person, for sure.  his fundamental teachings remain an important part of  who i am, because they form part of my spiritual foundation. 

and, yes,  there are several theories.  mary was pregnant during the time they were called out to be taxed, so they were traveling while she was still carrying...and who is to say how long they remained in the village before she delivered?  it could take weeks for the taxing process to be completed, one tax payer at a time, standing in long lines, waiting to meet the magistrate.

but, almost all theories claim that it was not midwinter.


samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:38am

 triskele wrote:

yeah, i had heard that theory before, too....either way, it is unlikely that he was actually born at mid winter in physical reality. mithras' birthday, however, was already being celebrated at midwinter, and it was a perfect overlap in order to gain converts out of the followers of mithras.
 
Well... if you follow the myth about being summoned by Caesar to be taxed, then it follows that you would be called together during the spring lambing season... when the ewes and rams come out of the hills to give birth.

That is, if you even believe that Jeshwa was an actual person and not a code name for the leader of the mystery school which was the early Xian church...

I prefer to believe in an actual person "the christ" etc.  But I think that's because I'm kinda sentimental that way.

triskele

triskele Avatar

Location: The Dragons' Roost


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:31am

samiyam wrote:

It's most likely, based upon the fact that the "fish" was the symbol which the early Xians (who were usually more tuned into the mystery school which was the early Xian church) that Jeshwa was probably born in the time of Pisces... Seeing as the Xian era was known by the proponents of the mystery schools as the "Age of Pisces" as opposed to the current "Age of Aquarius".



yeah, i had heard that theory before, too....either way, it is unlikely that he was actually born at mid winter in physical reality.

mithras' birthday, however, was already being celebrated at midwinter, and it was a perfect overlap in order to gain converts out of the followers of mithras.

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:24am

 samiyam wrote:
‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the garage,
Not a creature was stirring, not even the Dodge.
The tires were hung from the workbench with care,
In the hopes that Saint Nicholas would fill them with air.

And I in my white ducks, with a fresh wad of dip,
Settled down in the grease pit for a short midday kip.
When what should awake me but the nastiest sound,
That I leapt from the grease pit with a "Hey" and a bound.

I ran to the chain and I undid the lock,
Yanked on the wheel and opened the dock.
When who should ride in but the crudest of sorts,
On a fine Harley hog with red leather shorts.

He had a greasy old beard, all ratty and gray,
And red pointy boots that had seen better days.
He held in his mouth with the mightiest clench,
A big black pipe which put forth a foul stench.

He couldn't have bathed in many a moon,
For he had an aroma that would make a skunk swoon.
And I thought to myself, as I felt kinda sick,
With the right kinda drugs he'd look just like St. Nick.

He had a beer-belly that shook like bagged lard,
And he pull out the pipe and said, "Look Here Pard!"
"I used to give presents, but I've changed my MO.
Instead of me giving, I'm takin' yer dough!"

He went to the cash box and emptied it clean,
Then gave me a look that was nasty and mean.
"I'm tired of you-all and your "gimme toys" ilk,
So I'm doing for me. Now, where's my cookies and milk?"

He went to my tool box and took my best tools,
"And I've got lots of other things, taken from fools!"
"And don't even think of making a fuss, Bub,
Or I'll send over elves from The North Pole Biker Club."

"If I go to the slammer, they'll come to your house,
Drink all your beer and molest your spouse."
"They'll make so sorry you squealed on my ass,
Then break both your legs and light you with gas."

He jumped on his Harley and gave it a kick,
It fired right up and he burned out a slick.
I could hear him call out as he roared up the street,
"Merry Christmas, you goons, you can all kiss my seat!"


With apologies to Santa,
Stuart Tanner



 
You wrote that??? Very clever!

samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:22am

‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the garage,
Not a creature was stirring, not even the Dodge.
The tires were hung from the workbench with care,
In the hopes that Saint Nicholas would fill them with air.

And I in my white ducks, with a fresh wad of dip,
Settled down in the grease pit for a short midday kip.
When what should awake me but the nastiest sound,
That I leapt from the grease pit with a "Hey" and a bound.

I ran to the chain and I undid the lock,
Yanked on the wheel and opened the dock.
When who should ride in but the crudest of sorts,
On a fine Harley hog with red leather shorts.

He had a greasy old beard, all ratty and gray,
And red pointy boots that had seen better days.
He held in his mouth with the mightiest clench,
A big black pipe which put forth a foul stench.

He couldn't have bathed in many a moon,
For he had an aroma that would make a skunk swoon.
And I thought to myself, as I felt kinda sick,
With the right kinda drugs he'd look just like St. Nick.

He had a beer-belly that shook like bagged lard,
And he pull out the pipe and said, "Look Here Pard!"
"I used to give presents, but I've changed my MO.
Instead of me giving, I'm takin' yer dough!"

He went to the cash box and emptied it clean,
Then gave me a look that was nasty and mean.
"I'm tired of you-all and your "gimme toys" ilk,
So I'm doing for me. Now, where's my cookies and milk?"

He went to my tool box and took my best tools,
"And I've got lots of other things, taken from fools!"
"And don't even think of making a fuss, Bub,
Or I'll send over elves from The North Pole Biker Club."

"If I go to the slammer, they'll come to your house,
Drink all your beer and molest your spouse."
"They'll make so sorry you squealed on my ass,
Then break both your legs and light you with gas."

He jumped on his Harley and gave it a kick,
It fired right up and he burned out a slick.
I could hear him call out as he roared up the street,
"Merry Christmas, you goons, you can all kiss my seat!"


With apologies to Santa,
Stuart Tanner




samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:19am

 triskele wrote:

  the overlapping of festivals and celebrations in order to win converts was a brilliant thing to do.  since the early church HAD to gain converts in order to survive, changing the calendar to accommodate said converts was the only way to survive.  i mean....hasn't research shown that it's possible that jesus christ was actually born in the summer some time?
 
It's most likely, based upon the fact that the "fish" was the symbol which the early Xians (who were usually more tuned into the mystery school which was the early Xian church) that Jeshwa was probably born in the time of Pisces...  Seeing as the Xian era was known by the proponents of the mystery schools as the "Age of Pisces" as opposed to the current "Age of Aquarius".



triskele

triskele Avatar

Location: The Dragons' Roost


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:13am

BillnDollarBaby wrote:


The commandeering of the non-christian holidays was simply a marketing tool used by early christian missionaries. People were more likely to convert if they didn't have to give up their traditions and fun. Its quite a fascinating thing, the true origins of most christian holidays. Sadly, very few people actually know their own religious history and they freak out when told this information.


the overlapping of festivals and celebrations in order to win converts was a brilliant thing to do. since the early church HAD to gain converts in order to survive, changing the calendar to accommodate said converts was the best way to grow in numbers.

i mean....hasn't research shown that it's possible that jesus christ was actually born in the summer some time?

triskele

triskele Avatar

Location: The Dragons' Roost


Posted: Dec 6, 2008 - 7:10am

Painted_Turtle wrote:


Yes!!! Which is why I'm celebrating the Winter Solstice on the 21st. I love the potluck party, music and the bonfire. We like to jump over it.


sounds like fun!  we just make wassail and stay inside where it's warm, usually.  mostly because i don't have anywhere to have a bonfire!

callum

callum Avatar

Location: its wet, windy and chilly....take a guess
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 5, 2008 - 12:01pm

 Painted_Turtle wrote:


Yes!!!   Which is why I'm celebrating the Winter Solstice on the 21st.  I love the potluck party, music and the bonfire.  We like to jump over it.
 
Whilst my parents were in Singapore there was a year when the end of Ramadan, Xmas and Chinese NY fell on the same week.  Which led to some really really amusing cross-cultural parties (and the photos to prove it!).  I want to have a go at something like that!  Why bother being separatist, just celebrate whatever you like!
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