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Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 31, 2022 - 2:00pm

“The media avoided the ties between Joe Biden and Hunter’s laptop” 

New York Post. Thank heavens somebody owns this story. “Despite acknowledging that the material on the laptop showed that Hunter was ‘trading on his ­father’s name to make a lot of money,’ as CNN White House correspondent John Harwood put it, both the Washington Post and CNN were at pains to absolve Joe Biden of any involvement in the scheme. ‘There is zero evidence that Vice President Biden, or President Biden, has done anything wrong in connection with what Hunter Biden has done,’ Harwood said….. the Washington Post curiously left out crucial facts in two detailed stories about the laptop on Tuesday that totaled a hefty near 7,000 words. the $6 million CEFC wired into the business bank account of trusted Biden family friend Rob Walker, a former Clinton administration official whose wife, Betsy Massey Walker, had been Jill Biden’s assistant when she was second lady. That money was payment for work done by Hunter and his business partners during the last two years of Joe Biden’s vice presidency in countries from Romania to Russia, using the Biden name to open doors and find acquisitions for CEFC. Nor does the Washington Post mention the company SinoHawk Holdings, which was set up on May 15, 2017, for a joint venture between CEFC and Hunter and his business partners. This was the deal for which Joe Biden was to get a 10% cut, as cited in an infamous 2017 email on the laptop, ’10 held by H for the big guy.’ Hunter’s former business partner, the CEO of SinoHawk, Tony Bobulinski, has publicly said that Joe Biden is the “big guy.” But the Washington Post curiously does not mention Bobulinski, even though his name is all over the emails and documents on the laptop relating to CEFC, and even though the naval veteran held a press conference spilling the beans on the Bidens in October 2020. It does not mention that Bobulinski met Joe Biden twice in 2017, to be vetted as CEO of SinoHawk.” • A cursory search on Betsy Massey Walker turns up nothing. I would have expected her to be an Ambassador or something. Oh well.

Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 31, 2022 - 9:53am

Psaki Reminds Reporters That Biden Doesn't Speak For The President Of The United States

Politics March 29th, 2022 - BabylonBee.com

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WASHINGTON, D.C.—In a tense press conference Monday, Press Secretary Jen Psaki faced pointed questions about several Biden misstatements that led to chaos during his trip overseas. Psaki quickly reassured the gathered press that Biden doesn't speak for the President of the United States.

"The President has clearly said, and we agree, that Joe Biden does not speak for this administration," said Psaki to the confused reporters. "Nothing said by Biden should be misconstrued to reflect the official foreign policy of the President. This administration has been clear from the beginning, that we have always been clear about what we have been clear about, clearly."

"But Jen!" said a feisty Peter Doocy, "Don't you think these inconsistent statements could cause World War III and unleash CRT on our kids all at once? Why did Biden have to walk back his statements?"

"We would like to walk back the statement that we have ever walked back any statements," said a frustrated Psaki. "But if you find any statements that we have walked back let me know and we'll circle back later to walk back our walk-back."

Sources say Biden is now in his basement on tranquilizers until the administration can clarify what statements need to be walked back.


Red_Dragon

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Posted: Mar 30, 2022 - 5:28pm

VV

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 29, 2022 - 5:51am

 kurtster wrote:

Well if he was posting his material to bring other people's thinking into view, then y'all gave him a bum rap. 

I used to watch the 700 Club just to be aware and up to date on what those people were thinking.  Not because I agree with them, and I basically did not, but because I wanted to hear them first hand and figure out for myself what they were about and not have some pundit tell me what to think about their POV.  I try to do that with other groups, too.  You / we need to know what other's are thinking even if we disagree just to step away from our own little echo chambers and news feeds for a different reference point that does have an impact on events regardless of how we feel about the subject matter.  Intellectual isolation is never a good thing.

Y'all shot the messenger and missed the message, as usually happens around here.

When the message is coming from a tainted source (Russian propaganda site) doesn't that also compromise the messenger? I would think so. At worst it makes them complicit in trying to spread propaganda... and at best it makes them an ignorant tool of the source.

I can listen to Trump complain about the election being stolen from him from now until the end of time without giving it any credence since he and his cronies have never been able to prove it.  You can send me however many messengers you like spouting that lie (the Trump clan, Mike Lindell) I won't shoot them... but I will dismiss them. 

Send me your flat-earthers and I won't waste my time listening to them either...  life is too short to spend time on nonsense.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 9:31pm

 konz wrote:
Something to ponder...


Why we think we're right — even if we're wrong. (edit: this is meant for those seeking to expand their self-awareness)
 
That was excellent, though I am not quite sure how this ties in with unbounded tolerance for people espousing conspiracy theories, particularly when those theories can have demonstrably bad consequences, such as support for Putin's war of choice or voting for wannabe autocrats. 

I generally think everyone here is indeed open-minded and willing to have their beliefs challenged, provided the reasoning behind the challenge is similarly open-minded and well-founded. It's one of the reasons I've been here so long. 
konz

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Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 7:16pm

Something to ponder...


Why we think we're right — even if we're wrong.

(edit: this is meant for those seeking to expand their self-awareness)
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 6:56pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
If you can actually define a term like NWO (I assume that means new world order) we can discuss whether there is any such thing or not. While I hear it complained about often I never see a definition, just a list of (generally fictitious, often massively ignorant) grievances. So go ahead: define this...thing. Concept. Conspiracy. Whatever. Just be aware that you get to prove it exists/has the characteristics you claim because no one can prove a negative.


I was thinking this as well. Will await the response(s). I am on record here as stating the same/similar about the existence of the “Deep State.”
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 6:05pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

We're so far off topic here that normally I'd just shake my head and marvel at the human mind's ability to distort its view of the world to the notions it's fond of, but...

...screw it. I'm going to go walk some dogs before it gets dark and marvel at the human mind's ability to distort its view of the world to the notions it's fond of.




Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 5:51pm

 Animal-Farm wrote:
1633 April 12

Galileo is accused of heresy

On April 12, 1633, chief inquisitor Father Vincenzo Maculani da Firenzuola, appointed by Pope Urban VIII, begins the inquisition of physicist and astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial.


We're so far off topic here that normally I'd just shake my head and marvel at the human mind's ability to distort its view of the world to the notions it's fond of, but...

...screw it. I'm going to go walk some dogs before it gets dark and marvel at the human mind's ability to distort its view of the world to the notions it's fond of.
Animal-Farm

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Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 4:55pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

Your history is a bit wobbly here. OK, it's crap. Couldn't find a single reference for anyone being punished for saying the earth is round. That doesn't mean it never happened (can't prove a negative!) but the burden of proof on that is on you.

What matters here is that there can be many claims about what is true, but there is an actual underlying truth. You're welcome to question anything but realize that those questions often have actual answers. Answers that can be verified.

What exactly does "legitimate" mean in this context? A question in good faith is always honest. It's a request to relieve ignorance, and we there is no higher authority on what you know (or don't, or don't understand) than you.

And no one is stopping you from asking questions. No one is stopping you from spouting bullshit. Calling you on it does not oppress you, it can only silence you out of shame. And after four years in office you're still a Trump supporter so really how likely is that?

If you can actually define a term like NWO (I assume that means new world order) we can discuss whether there is any such thing or not. While I hear it complained about often I never see a definition, just a list of (generally fictitious, often massively ignorant) grievances. So go ahead: define this...thing. Concept. Conspiracy. Whatever. Just be aware that you get to prove it exists/has the characteristics you claim because no one can prove a negative.

Hunter Biden's laptop is the same physical object it always was, the stories about it have changed. And no, the NYT did not publish a mea culpa (means "my fault" in Latin)—they just sort of admitted that the Post's story about it wasn't Russian disinformation. They have zero interest in exposing their own bias or investigating any implications of its contents, or in apologizing for their part in covering the story up.

And what looks to you like a conspiracy, a coordinated plan to suppress the story, is something far more dangerous: consensus. Conspiracies have conspirators. They can be caught, exposed, and ridiculed...and they grow old and die. With them dies the conspiracy. A consensus is far more durable. It can last generations.

There are still people who believe the moon landings were faked 50 years on. William Kaysing, the dude usually credited with starting that hoax, is long dead—but there are fresh adherents to his story every day.* You can still buy freshly-printed copies of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, even tho the people who first pitched the thing have been dead over a century. It doesn't take a cabal of active conspirators to keep an idea alive, it just takes people willing to fall for a story.

And the people who run the NYT (and Facebook and Twitter and most of the news media) had developed a consensus: any story brought forth by Rudy Giulliani that cast the candidate they were pulling for in an unfavorable light was probably fake. And they had ample reason to be suspicious; add a few anonymous quotes from someone in an intelligence agency (or someone adjacent to an intelligence agency, or someone who used to work for one and is now a consultant who will tell them what they want to know and who swears it's true because he knows a guy) and a lazy reporter has a story. And everybody who doesn't have a better source (which is everybody, because nobody really has a source) just follows along, assuming that the NYT just beat them to it.

As for Hunter Biden's laptop being some sort of factual kryptonite that would have reversed the 2020 election...dream on. It doesn't tell us anything we didn't already have ample evidence for. It isn't going to change anyone's mind about who they voted for. After all, Trump had two sons every bit as sleazy as Hunter Biden, involved in just as many sleazy schemes. It does not magically make Donald F#cking Trump a man of upstanding character or honesty or magically make his record better.

*Did I touch a nerve there? Sorry**.

** No I'm not.


1633 April 12

Galileo is accused of heresy

On April 12, 1633, chief inquisitor Father Vincenzo Maculani da Firenzuola, appointed by Pope Urban VIII, begins the inquisition of physicist and astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial.



Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 4:35pm

 kurtster wrote:
There are two sides to the story regarding the earth being round or flat. Only in the past 500 or so years in the long / short history of humankind was the earth determined to be round. Before then it was officially flat and anyone who thought otherwise publicly was considered a blasphemer with the appropriate penalties of imprisonment, torture and even death. And this is with a physical thing.

There usually is at least two perspectives on nearly everything and until proven otherwise, they are both legitimate in their own rights. We evolve and expand or understanding of things with the very question, what if? Without asking that question, we stagnate and stop evolving and only by pure chance or accident do we make new discoveries. To stop all
conversations that start with what if is a disservice to the public interest. The plausible is worthy of discussion and conjecture. The most recent example of this would be the NWO.

The NWO, long denied as nothing more than a paranoid delusion of extreme conspiracy theorists is now out in the open, acknowledged and being put into action. The turnaround time between a CT and reality has gone from 10 years to a matter of months.

Hunter Biden's laptop has gone from a Russian disinformation CT to reality since the election when one of the official arbiters of truth, the NYT, has finally come out and issued a mea culpa. I was dissed here for thinking and saying it was real. Too bad it was willfully suppressed by the fact checkers in order to affect the results of an election, but it did happen that way. Lazy8 posted the mea culpa and everyone just ignored it as if it doesn't matter. Same as right now ...

Lastly, the Biden enterprise has survived so far by maintaining the policy and cover of plausible deniability. Which in the case of Hunter's laptop, it was Russian disinformation. That plausibility was the result of conditioning by the media and fact checkers, et al.

Your history is a bit wobbly here. OK, it's crap. Couldn't find a single reference for anyone being punished for saying the earth is round. That doesn't mean it never happened (can't prove a negative!) but the burden of proof on that is on you.

What matters here is that there can be many claims about what is true, but there is an actual underlying truth. You're welcome to question anything but realize that those questions often have actual answers. Answers that can be verified.

What exactly does "legitimate" mean in this context? A question in good faith is always honest. It's a request to relieve ignorance, and we there is no higher authority on what you know (or don't, or don't understand) than you.

And no one is stopping you from asking questions. No one is stopping you from spouting bullshit. Calling you on it does not oppress you, it can only silence you out of shame. And after four years in office you're still a Trump supporter so really how likely is that?

If you can actually define a term like NWO (I assume that means new world order) we can discuss whether there is any such thing or not. While I hear it complained about often I never see a definition, just a list of (generally fictitious, often massively ignorant) grievances. So go ahead: define this...thing. Concept. Conspiracy. Whatever. Just be aware that you get to prove it exists/has the characteristics you claim because no one can prove a negative.

Hunter Biden's laptop is the same physical object it always was, the stories about it have changed. And no, the NYT did not publish a mea culpa (means "my fault" in Latin)—they just sort of admitted that the Post's story about it wasn't Russian disinformation. They have zero interest in exposing their own bias or investigating any implications of its contents, or in apologizing for their part in covering the story up.

And what looks to you like a conspiracy, a coordinated plan to suppress the story, is something far more dangerous: consensus. Conspiracies have conspirators. They can be caught, exposed, and ridiculed...and they grow old and die. With them dies the conspiracy. A consensus is far more durable. It can last generations.

There are still people who believe the moon landings were faked 50 years on. William Kaysing, the dude usually credited with starting that hoax, is long dead—but there are fresh adherents to his story every day.* You can still buy freshly-printed copies of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, even tho the people who first pitched the thing have been dead over a century. It doesn't take a cabal of active conspirators to keep an idea alive, it just takes people willing to fall for a story.

And the people who run the NYT (and Facebook and Twitter and most of the news media) had developed a consensus: any story brought forth by Rudy Giulliani that cast the candidate they were pulling for in an unfavorable light was probably fake. And they had ample reason to be suspicious; add a few anonymous quotes from someone in an intelligence agency (or someone adjacent to an intelligence agency, or someone who used to work for one and is now a consultant who will tell them what they want to know and who swears it's true because he knows a guy) and a lazy reporter has a story. And everybody who doesn't have a better source (which is everybody, because nobody really has a source) just follows along, assuming that the NYT just beat them to it.

As for Hunter Biden's laptop being some sort of factual kryptonite that would have reversed the 2020 election...dream on. It doesn't tell us anything we didn't already have ample evidence for. It isn't going to change anyone's mind about who they voted for. After all, Trump had two sons every bit as sleazy as Hunter Biden, involved in just as many sleazy schemes. It does not magically make Donald F#cking Trump a man of upstanding character or honesty or magically make his record better.

*Did I touch a nerve there? Sorry**.

** No I'm not.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 2:54pm

"For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power"
— President Biden
(Reuters) "The Kremlin said on Monday that Biden's remark that Vladimir Putin 'cannot remain in power' was a cause for alarm, a guarded response to the first public call from the United States for an end to Putin's 22-year rule."
Note that this is the FIRST time the Kremlin has admitted to being alarmed in ANY fashion since starting this war. Or before, actually.
Trump sure as hell didn't alarm Putin.
But Biden damn well did.
And isn't this what Republicans — and Americans in general according to alleged recent polls — want?
Don't we want Russian leaders alarmed at our resolve? Is that exactly what Biden's critics have been demanding?
Yeah.
Can't wait to see how Tucker Carlson and GOP spin this into Putin being the victim here and how Biden is "weak."

~Jim Wright
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 12:54pm

“I was expressing the moral outrage I felt toward this man,” Mr. Biden told reporters,
rejecting criticism that he misspoke. He said no one should have thought
his comments were meant to be calling for Mr. Putin’s ouster.

“It’s ridiculous,” he said, clearly irritated at the questions during an
event in which he unveiled his budget. “Nobody believes I was talking
about taking down Putin. Nobody believes that.”


steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 11:52am

 Isabeau wrote:



Non-believer: PROVE the Existence of God!
Inquisition:    No, YOU PROVE that God doesn't Exist!!
First one to PROVE THE UNPROVABLE wins!!  


And so it goes.

Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 11:51am

 steeler wrote:

Plausible is a higher standard than possible. From my experiences, advocates for a “conspiracy theory” often are arguing that it is possible. And they then often insist that those in opposition prove that it is not possible. The burden of proof should not shift at that point. This is not the same as a discussion over which of 2 plausible explanations one believes should hold sway.





Non-believer: PROVE the Existence of God!
Inquisition:    No, YOU PROVE that God doesn't Exist!!
First one to PROVE THE UNPROVABLE wins!!  

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 11:39am

 kurtster wrote:
. . .

There usually is at least two perspectives on nearly everything and until proven otherwise, they are both legitimate in their own rights. We evolve and expand or understanding of things with the very question, what if ? Without asking that question, we stagnate and stop evolving and only by pure chance or accident do we make new discoveries. To stop all conversations that start with what if is a disservice to the public interest. The plausible is worthy of discussion and conjecture. The most recent example of this would be the NWO.

. . .

Plausible is a higher standard than possible. From my experiences, advocates for a “conspiracy theory” often are arguing that it is possible. And they then often insist that those in opposition prove that it is not possible. The burden of proof should not shift at that point. This is not the same as a discussion over which of 2 plausible explanations one believes should hold sway.


Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 11:33am

 kurtster wrote:

Well if he was posting his material to bring other people's thinking into view, then y'all gave him a bum rap. 

I used to watch the 700 Club just to be aware and up to date on what those people were thinking.  Not because I agree with them, and I basically did not, but because I wanted to hear them first hand and figure out for myself what they were about and not have some pundit tell me what to think about their POV.  I try to do that with other groups, too.  You / we need to know what other's are thinking even if we disagree just to step away from our own little echo chambers and news feeds for a different reference point that does have an impact on events regardless of how we feel about the subject matter.  Intellectual isolation is never a good thing.

Y'all shot the messenger and missed the message, as usually happens around here.


Hey Pot, wassup? — kettle

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 9:38am

 Steely_D wrote:
People act like there has to be two or more sides to an issue and that both/all are to be accepted as true. But, there are things that just are. The earth is round. It revolves around the sun. Kajillions of scientific measurements and observations have proved it. Tolerating a flat earther in the name of hearing all sides is ludicrous - but the earther will cry “what about free speech? What about an open mind?” The answer is: there was an open mind to your contention, but your contention has been objectively, demonstrably been proved wrong. It was a theory, a conjecture, and idea that is not in the real world. You can keep saying “what if” but that doesn’t make it real or logical. It’s just wasting everyone’s time and is a distraction from dealing with the reality we have. Running something like that off isn’t a monolithic forum/board/conversation. It’s refusing to tolerate wrongness any longer. We have better things to do.
 
There are two sides to the story regarding the earth being round or flat.  Only in the past 500 or so years in the long / short history of humankind was the earth determined to be round.  Before then it was officially flat and anyone who thought otherwise publicly was considered a blasphemer with the appropriate penalties of imprisonment, torture and even death.  And this is with a physical thing.

There usually is at least two perspectives on nearly everything and until proven otherwise, they are both legitimate in their own rights.  We evolve and expand or understanding of things with the very question, what if ?  Without asking that question, we stagnate and stop evolving and only by pure chance or accident do we make new discoveries.  To stop all conversations that start with what if is a disservice to the public interest.  The plausible is worthy of discussion and conjecture.  The most recent example of this would be the NWO.

The NWO, long denied as nothing more than a paranoid delusion of extreme conspiracy theorists is now out in the open, acknowledged and being put into action.  The turnaround time between a CT and reality has gone from 10 years to a matter of months.

Hunter Biden's laptop has gone from a Russian disinformation CT to reality since the election when one of the official arbiters of truth, the NYT, has finallycome out and issued a mea culpa.  I was dissed here for thinking and saying it was real. Too bad it was willfully suppressed by the fact checkers in order to affect the results of an election, but it did happen that way.  Lazy8 posted the mea culpa and everyone just ignored it as if it doesn't matter.  Same as right now ...

Lastly, the Biden enterprise has survived so far by maintaining the policy and cover of plausible deniability.  Which in the case of Hunter's laptop, it was Russian disinformation.  That plausibility was the result of conditioning by the media and fact checkers, et al.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2022 - 8:39am

People act like there has to be two or more sides to an issue and that both/all are to be accepted as true. But, there are things that just are. The earth is round. It revolves around the sun. Kajillions of scientific measurements and observations have proved it. Tolerating a flat earther in the name of hearing all sides is ludicrous - but the earther will cry “what about free speech? What about an open mind?”

The answer is: there was an open mind to your contention, but your contention has been objectively, demonstrably been proved wrong. It was a theory, a conjecture, and idea that is not in the real world. You can keep saying “what if” but that doesn’t make it real or logical. It’s just wasting everyone’s time and is a distraction from dealing with the reality we have.

Running something like that off isn’t a monolithic forum/board/conversation. It’s refusing to tolerate wrongness any longer. We have better things to do.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2022 - 10:56pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Yep, you saw a sheep. I saw a wolf. and btw. I didn't ask him to shut up or leave. I just called him as I saw him. 
 
No worries.  It was a just sayin' thing.

Got to have a thick skin and be able to let things go.  Here and in the real world.
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