Ludovico Einaudi — Time Lapse
Album: In a Time LapseAvg rating:
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Total ratings: 3464
Length: 5:18
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Boring.
i was just doing my mundane chores and had to rush here to give my lovely ludovico 10 and turn the volume up
All the sophistication and harmonic interest of chopsticks.
I'm pretty sure I first learned of Ludovico from RP, he has since become one of my all time favorites. Thanks again
Remarkably similar to some bits in the soundtrack of Game of Thrones.
I never tire of his music scores. Another reason I listen to RP, I'd never hear this on any corporate radio station. Keep up the good work, Bill and crew!!
white noise
Has anyone tried nominating Clint Mansell's "Moon" theme?
I tried the RP track suggestion interface about a year ago and it appears it's broken, nothing I submit ever gets a single upvote, downvote, or a comment. I'll try submitting again for the Moon theme but idk.
BlackBetty wrote:
same. over the last few weeks hearing different things on RP from him, i've become a fan.
Never get tired of this guy! A.......twenty!
same. over the last few weeks hearing different things on RP from him, i've become a fan.
Never get tired of this guy! A.......twenty!
spellhj wrote:
Sorry to be a wiseass, but it's not a song. Apart from that I totally agree.
Great music. (to be honest this isn't my favorite of his but it still is pleasant)
Sorry to be a wiseass, but it's not a song. Apart from that I totally agree.
Great music. (to be honest this isn't my favorite of his but it still is pleasant)
cheflincoln wrote:
And a fine film it was! Their first, and I would say their best, although Fargo was a close second. Anyway, there is a recurring and haunting piano theme in that film which bears a slight resemblance to this.
BloodSimplePiano
I'm really flashing back to the soundtrack for the Cohen brothers' first big film "Blood Simple"
And a fine film it was! Their first, and I would say their best, although Fargo was a close second. Anyway, there is a recurring and haunting piano theme in that film which bears a slight resemblance to this.
BloodSimplePiano
Einaudi really polarises opinion doesn't he? Personally I love RP because there is music that makes me think, music that makes me laugh, makes me cry, makes me dance and (VERY OCCASIONALLY) makes me hit the NEXT button. Sometimes I just want something soothing & mindless that's easy to listen to - This is that piece. Not earth shattering, but just fine for now.
Not everyone is [Insert musical hero of choice] - that would be tiring!
Not everyone is [Insert musical hero of choice] - that would be tiring!
He nailed it!
I see I've been beaten by many years to say this sounds a little too familiar to Clint Mansell's Moon soundtrack
The perfect music only when you're trapped in a traffic gridlock, to me nothing more than 2 (and I'm Italian like he is).
Michael_in_Paradise wrote:
Great song !!
Sorry to be a wiseass, but it's not a song. Apart from that I totally agree.
Great song !!
Sorry to be a wiseass, but it's not a song. Apart from that I totally agree.
Kaw wrote:
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful. The Einaudi tracks are dripping from those. The music is repeating, contains lots of parallel notes and lacks dissonants, rithm or any other particular reason to make it interesting. It's for the easy listening crowd. It also has a stamp of intellectualism and eclecticism which I think is completely incorrect. It's the riverdance of classical/minimal music. There is so much better out there.
I don't know about "distasteful", but definitely he's going for a certain emotional effect, the way film music is supposed to. Except that here, it's film music without the film, so it's out of context and falls flat, for me. That's where you notice the emptiness of it -- the incessant repetition and easy modulation meant to support an extended visual element that's not there for you.
Reminds me of someone learning to play a musical instrument and how they can easily mesmerize themselves with the easy chord changes that they figure out in the beginning, after a few lessons, if they're actually musically inclined. And you get so pleased with yourself and the profound sounds you've easily and profoundly generated! And that's the corn syrup that makes up this dreadful film-score genre, a.k.a Contemporary Classical. It's about as "classical" as Classic Coke.
But at least it's not Yanni.
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful. The Einaudi tracks are dripping from those. The music is repeating, contains lots of parallel notes and lacks dissonants, rithm or any other particular reason to make it interesting. It's for the easy listening crowd. It also has a stamp of intellectualism and eclecticism which I think is completely incorrect. It's the riverdance of classical/minimal music. There is so much better out there.
I don't know about "distasteful", but definitely he's going for a certain emotional effect, the way film music is supposed to. Except that here, it's film music without the film, so it's out of context and falls flat, for me. That's where you notice the emptiness of it -- the incessant repetition and easy modulation meant to support an extended visual element that's not there for you.
Reminds me of someone learning to play a musical instrument and how they can easily mesmerize themselves with the easy chord changes that they figure out in the beginning, after a few lessons, if they're actually musically inclined. And you get so pleased with yourself and the profound sounds you've easily and profoundly generated! And that's the corn syrup that makes up this dreadful film-score genre, a.k.a Contemporary Classical. It's about as "classical" as Classic Coke.
But at least it's not Yanni.
Good stuff. I could feel the instruments, simple, primal and soothing.
I appreciated the low notes of the piano and music with out voice.
I appreciated the low notes of the piano and music with out voice.
What an interesting series of posts... So much love or hate! Ratings are pretty high though.
Personally, couldn't give a monkey's whether it's classical or contemporary, it's just a sublime piece of very relaxing music
Love it - 8 on first listen. LLRP
Personally, couldn't give a monkey's whether it's classical or contemporary, it's just a sublime piece of very relaxing music
Love it - 8 on first listen. LLRP
cheflincoln wrote:
This tune does remind me of something from a kind of moody, atmospheric movie. I think you NAILED it. I've got to HAND it to you.
I'm really flashing back to the soundtrack for the Cohen brothers' first big film "Blood Simple"
This tune does remind me of something from a kind of moody, atmospheric movie. I think you NAILED it. I've got to HAND it to you.
a_genuine_find wrote:
I agree. It was the honor of my life to be able to pay to see him in concert. I have seen some excellent concerts in my life but nothing compared to his show. Wow. I hope to do it again.
One of the greatest live performances I have ever witnessed
I agree. It was the honor of my life to be able to pay to see him in concert. I have seen some excellent concerts in my life but nothing compared to his show. Wow. I hope to do it again.
was listening to my other go-to commercial free music source.... KUSC.org, and was surprised to learn that Ludovico's grandfather was the President of Italy between 1948 and 1955!
Awesome tune, Larry David!
Minimalism at it's best is hypnotic and this is 
In love with Ludovico...!!!
adib wrote:
Me too. Normally Einaudi's music doesn't work for me, but this does.
And I have just bumped to an 8 - love this.
Q: Why does his music normally make me want to crawl up walls?
A: I think because there's a thin line between annoying/bland and simple/atmospheric. This one is across that line for me. Maybe for other people the line is in a slightly different place, so his other music works for them...?
Me too. Normally Einaudi's music doesn't work for me, but this does.
And I have just bumped to an 8 - love this.
Q: Why does his music normally make me want to crawl up walls?
A: I think because there's a thin line between annoying/bland and simple/atmospheric. This one is across that line for me. Maybe for other people the line is in a slightly different place, so his other music works for them...?
One of the greatest live performances I have ever witnessed
Woohoo! Time Lapse. Perfect name for this number
gillespp wrote:
Me too. Normally Einaudi's music doesn't work for me, but this does.
This track always makes me think of the soundtrack to Moon, an amazing little movie. (With a, ahem, stellar soundtrack.)
Me too. Normally Einaudi's music doesn't work for me, but this does.
Long Live Radio Paradise
Still considering raising from 8 to 9 but I have save 9 and 10 for even better
Still considering raising from 8 to 9 but I have save 9 and 10 for even better
Great song !!Soothing and unsettling all at once. Love his work.
I'm really flashing back to the soundtrack for the Cohen brothers' first big film "Blood Simple"
pouring down rain is the background to this playing and I am blissed out for a moment in 2018.
I change my opinion from 7 to 8 - Most Excellent
Quick quick PSD you get King Crimson !
Chill, friends... it's just Intellectual Trance.
Definitely very Moon-ish...
Schmoogsley wrote:
Agreed - sounding lovely on mine - I was thinking the same thing before I read your post!
The bass in this song is pretty cool. (for those with subs)
Agreed - sounding lovely on mine - I was thinking the same thing before I read your post!
yofitofu wrote:
Too many notes, Mozart! -Saliere
That made me chuckle.
Too many notes, Mozart! -Saliere
That made me chuckle.
Spot_69 wrote:
Oh, please - by effete snobs, maybe . . . the rest of just enjoy what we enjoy, and don't worry about it too much.
Puts in mind of the scene from Dead Poet's Society where he has the boys rip out a page of "rules" from their poetry text book . . .
Enjoy the moment!
Oh, please - by effete snobs, maybe . . . the rest of just enjoy what we enjoy, and don't worry about it too much.
Puts in mind of the scene from Dead Poet's Society where he has the boys rip out a page of "rules" from their poetry text book . . .
Enjoy the moment!
Too much of Ludovico Einaudi on RP !
Strangely compelling. The bass is indeed catchy.
The bass in this song is pretty cool. (for those with subs)
Bill, you should put Clint Mansell's "Moon" theme into rotation. Einaudi's Time Lapse is from 2013, so I can't help wondering if it was actually inspired by the 2009 Mansell soundtrack.
Spot_69 wrote:
Oh, please - by effete snobs, maybe . . . the rest of just enjoy what we enjoy, and don't worry about it too much.
Puts in mind of the scene from Dead Poet's Society where he has the boys rip out a page of "rules" from their poetry text book . . .
Too many notes, Mozart! -Saliere
Oh, please - by effete snobs, maybe . . . the rest of just enjoy what we enjoy, and don't worry about it too much.
Puts in mind of the scene from Dead Poet's Society where he has the boys rip out a page of "rules" from their poetry text book . . .
Too many notes, Mozart! -Saliere
Kaw wrote:
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful.
Oh, please - by effete snobs, maybe . . . the rest of just enjoy what we enjoy, and don't worry about it too much.
Puts in mind of the scene from Dead Poet's Society where he has the boys rip out a page of "rules" from their poetry text book . . .
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful.
Oh, please - by effete snobs, maybe . . . the rest of just enjoy what we enjoy, and don't worry about it too much.
Puts in mind of the scene from Dead Poet's Society where he has the boys rip out a page of "rules" from their poetry text book . . .
Beautifully recorded,
SECA_Alan wrote:
Counter to many of the detractors' comments below, I wholeheartedly agree with you!
This is simple, it may be technically simplistic and intellectually unstimulating, but it stimulates emotions just fine. It puts me in mind of Massive Attack rather than Wagner.
This track works very well with the time lapse HD videos of earth taken from the ISS.
This track works very well with the time lapse HD videos of earth taken from the ISS.
Counter to many of the detractors' comments below, I wholeheartedly agree with you!
This is simple, it may be technically simplistic and intellectually unstimulating, but it stimulates emotions just fine. It puts me in mind of Massive Attack rather than Wagner.
This track works very well with the time lapse HD videos of earth taken from the ISS.
This track works very well with the time lapse HD videos of earth taken from the ISS.
fredriley wrote:
I can't understand the fear and loathing that Einaudi brings out in some RP listeners. At worst, it's boring elevator music - how can folk get so wound up about that. I love his work, which to me has hidden complexity in its minimalism, and is very evocative (particularly his previous works with Italian titles, such as Primavera and Andare), but I can understand how it would bore the crap out of others, and fair do's for that. Why, though, does it get the red mist treatment? I'm really curious.
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful. The Einaudi tracks are dripping from those. The music is repeating, contains lots of parallel notes and lacks dissonants, rithm or any other particular reason to make it interesting. It's for the easy listening crowd. It also has a stamp of intellectualism and eclecticism which I think is completely incorrect. It's the riverdance of classical/minimal music. There is so much better out there.
I can't understand the fear and loathing that Einaudi brings out in some RP listeners. At worst, it's boring elevator music - how can folk get so wound up about that. I love his work, which to me has hidden complexity in its minimalism, and is very evocative (particularly his previous works with Italian titles, such as Primavera and Andare), but I can understand how it would bore the crap out of others, and fair do's for that. Why, though, does it get the red mist treatment? I'm really curious.
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful. The Einaudi tracks are dripping from those. The music is repeating, contains lots of parallel notes and lacks dissonants, rithm or any other particular reason to make it interesting. It's for the easy listening crowd. It also has a stamp of intellectualism and eclecticism which I think is completely incorrect. It's the riverdance of classical/minimal music. There is so much better out there.
There is a lot of bass on this track, but on my system (with a subwoofer) it's absolutely clean. Could be that it's simply overloading systems that can't reproduce the low tones...
Responsibility lies with the producer of the recording rather than RP.
Sounds very nice to me tho...
Responsibility lies with the producer of the recording rather than RP.
Sounds very nice to me tho...
BillG wrote:
not really...
Sorry about the sound quality issues on this song. It should be OK now.
not really...
bad record "frrr" "frrr" on deep basses
Very nice segue from Younger Brother's Shine to this....kudo!
Sorry about the sound quality issues on this song. It should be OK now.
Yeah, I love this piece but something's wrong with the file. 128k on iPhone app.
dlaumor wrote:
ditto. Sad because music seems worth a listen.
still got this sound problem...
ditto. Sad because music seems worth a listen.
still got this sound problem...
There is a problem with the file. Bass distortion (got it with .acc 128 and mp3.128)
By the way excellent music.
By the way excellent music.
Yikes, the whole thing is distorted/clipping for me, too. But I swear I've heard this before on RP with no distortion. Weird!
It sounds great here, like it a lot
No bass problem on my end.
This file is terribly distorted and should be replaced.
Very distorted. Makes it sound as if my speakers are blown. Hate that.
Distorted audio quality.....but really nice song.
Definitely sound track music to a working day.
Bad sound quality on this one. Distorted especially in the bass. Please fix or drop it
Bad sound quality on this one. Distorted especially in the bass. Please fix or drop it
so progressive <3
Something is up with the audio quality on this one.
I actually down graded this one ... maybe hearing it too much?
Still like it tho
Love it. but not as much as "Life". Please keep ging that way, RP
Aaahh, Ludovico Einaudi, his music always touches my heart. However, this is not his best song, but still an 8 with easiness.
Poor Ludovico
Hated by lovers of contemporary music for being too classical
Hated by lovers of classical music for being too contemporary
I personally love it and don't agree with many who label this 'simple'
Plain melodies but fantastic range of dynamics across all the voices
Still to each his own
Great show live and I am going back for a second time.
Hated by lovers of contemporary music for being too classical
Hated by lovers of classical music for being too contemporary
I personally love it and don't agree with many who label this 'simple'
Plain melodies but fantastic range of dynamics across all the voices
Still to each his own
Great show live and I am going back for a second time.
This is totally boring and lacks any imagination and creativity. Call it what you like, it's crap music.
Unbearable music.
This track always makes me think of the soundtrack to Moon, an amazing little movie. (With a, ahem, stellar soundtrack.)
Einaudi among VanMorrison and Sting - what a torture.
Sounds like a sound track cut. Not a bad thing...
fredriley wrote:
Kudos to your son, and I'm sure that Einaudi would be pleased to have inspired him into music.
Thank you for the kind words. Now I'm slightly jealous of my son's success and am budgeting to take my own lessons from his instructor this fall.
Kudos to your son, and I'm sure that Einaudi would be pleased to have inspired him into music.Thank you for the kind words. Now I'm slightly jealous of my son's success and am budgeting to take my own lessons from his instructor this fall.
fredriley wrote:
I can't understand the fear and loathing that Einaudi brings out in some RP listeners. At worst, it's boring elevator music - how can folk get so wound up about that. I love his work, which to me has hidden complexity in its minimalism, and is very evocative (particularly his previous works with Italian titles, such as Primavera and Andare), but I can understand how it would bore the crap out of others, and fair do's for that. Why, though, does it get the red mist treatment? I'm really curious.
It could be lack of intelligence?
I can't understand the fear and loathing that Einaudi brings out in some RP listeners. At worst, it's boring elevator music - how can folk get so wound up about that. I love his work, which to me has hidden complexity in its minimalism, and is very evocative (particularly his previous works with Italian titles, such as Primavera and Andare), but I can understand how it would bore the crap out of others, and fair do's for that. Why, though, does it get the red mist treatment? I'm really curious.
It could be lack of intelligence?
Reminded me of Clint Mansell's "welcome to lunar industries", fantastic
Greatest living composer delivers again.
Some of you need to get out more.
Ludovico Einaudi makes beautiful music. Simply said.
rdo wrote:
FO, OF. You got a problem with people posting comments on a comment board? It's not ego. You are a fucking buffoon, but a funny one, so, you are OK by me.
One point to kcar's reply. When critics talk about "emotional" response to music, I am at a loss. Are you talking about the kind of thing people who listen to Julio Iglesias or Frank Sinatra experience??????????
It just goes to show how pointless music writing can be. We are speaking two different languages.
Pretty soon you'll be pulling the old "postmodern" trick out of you hat. Fucking academic.
Well, yeah...but the irony of you bitchin' about his bitchin' is a bit much to not giggle over. We all get a say (except me when I bitch about Kathleen Edwards)
As was said so well in "Mars Attacks", can't we all just get along?
FO, OF. You got a problem with people posting comments on a comment board? It's not ego. You are a fucking buffoon, but a funny one, so, you are OK by me.
One point to kcar's reply. When critics talk about "emotional" response to music, I am at a loss. Are you talking about the kind of thing people who listen to Julio Iglesias or Frank Sinatra experience??????????
It just goes to show how pointless music writing can be. We are speaking two different languages.
Pretty soon you'll be pulling the old "postmodern" trick out of you hat. Fucking academic.
Well, yeah...but the irony of you bitchin' about his bitchin' is a bit much to not giggle over. We all get a say (except me when I bitch about Kathleen Edwards)
As was said so well in "Mars Attacks", can't we all just get along?
Proclivities wrote:
I can't understand the fear and loathing that Einaudi brings out in some RP listeners. At worst, it's boring elevator music - how can folk get so wound up about that. I love his work, which to me has hidden complexity in its minimalism, and is very evocative (particularly his previous works with Italian titles, such as Primavera and Andare), but I can understand how it would bore the crap out of others, and fair do's for that. Why, though, does it get the red mist treatment? I'm really curious.
It's odd how much animated and heated discussion this guy's music inspires. I thought the whole point of this music was one of quiet reflection, or just to be "background" music.
I can't understand the fear and loathing that Einaudi brings out in some RP listeners. At worst, it's boring elevator music - how can folk get so wound up about that. I love his work, which to me has hidden complexity in its minimalism, and is very evocative (particularly his previous works with Italian titles, such as Primavera and Andare), but I can understand how it would bore the crap out of others, and fair do's for that. Why, though, does it get the red mist treatment? I'm really curious.
tulfan wrote:
Kudos to your son, and I'm sure that Einaudi would be pleased to have inspired him into music.
This artist has motivated my son to begin taking piano lessons and even early on, he is being highly praised by his instructor.
Kudos to your son, and I'm sure that Einaudi would be pleased to have inspired him into music.This artist has motivated my son to begin taking piano lessons and even early on, he is being highly praised by his instructor.
oldfart48 wrote:
FO, OF. You got a problem with people posting comments on a comment board? It's not ego. You are a fucking buffoon, but a funny one, so, you are OK by me.
One point to kcar's reply. When critics talk about "emotional" response to music, I am at a loss. Are you talking about the kind of thing people who listen to Julio Iglesias or Frank Sinatra experience??????????
It just goes to show how pointless music writing can be. We are speaking two different languages.
Pretty soon you'll be pulling the old "postmodern" trick out of you hat. Fucking academic.
WHY DON'T YOU PRIMA DONNAS EXCHANGE EMAIL ADDRESS AND GET LOST? THIS IS A PLACE FOR MUSIC NOT HUGE EGOS.....
FO, OF. You got a problem with people posting comments on a comment board? It's not ego. You are a fucking buffoon, but a funny one, so, you are OK by me.
One point to kcar's reply. When critics talk about "emotional" response to music, I am at a loss. Are you talking about the kind of thing people who listen to Julio Iglesias or Frank Sinatra experience??????????
It just goes to show how pointless music writing can be. We are speaking two different languages.
Pretty soon you'll be pulling the old "postmodern" trick out of you hat. Fucking academic.
This is beautiful ...
Wow, the hate is flowing like beer at a frat party.
Me, I quite like this (and beer, for that matter).
Me, I quite like this (and beer, for that matter).
RandomousJam wrote:
Don Knuth, that wild and crazy guy! I think just looking at and comparing sheet music can give you an idea of which songs are more complex than others. I think...
From what I remember, my basic argument here is that some songs are so complex (i.e. have so much structure, overlapping musical lines and a higher number of musical ideas all demanding greater technical mastery by musicians) that listeners unfamiliar with that type or style of music may not immediately like those songs.
I think you can come to understand and perhaps intuitively like those kind of songs through exposure as a kid, training in playing a musical instrument and/or instruction in musical theory. Those three paths of learning help people hear more of what's "going on" in a piece; the wall of sounds turn into separate aural strands that people can more readily follow, remember and like.
Fr'instance, Bach and Brahms would embed snatches of folk songs into their pieces that people today wouldn't know. But both men were pulling at their contemporary listeners heart strings and pushing them to emotionally remember their villages, guilds, churches, etc and associate them with the piece that contained them. (Brahms composed the "Academic Overture" for a ceremony in which he was given an honorary doctorate but put snatches of college drinking songs throughout the piece. The academics recognized the drinking songs and apparently many laughed along with Brahms' poke at them. Wikipedia's brief entry on the piece echoes some of my ideas.)
Today's listeners wouldn't recognize the musical references that Bach and Brahms made. Learning about them and/or learning how to the play instruments for that piece may help you pick up on musical strands in the piece and may induce you to appreciate or even love the piece. Making those efforts may also not move the needle for you at all.
Just because the Academic Overture has some complexity doesn't mean it's superior to other types of music. Learning how to play an instrument or learning about a piece or repeatedly listening to it doesn't make you a superior person; these efforts might expand the range of your musical preferences, though. You might get the same expansive benefit just by going through life and listening to different styles of music.
I think people go through the same process with books, visual art and other forms of art as they grow up. Most of us don't read the same books we read as kids; we look for books with deeper meanings and irony, plot complexity, more fully fleshed-out characters, a greater degree of loss in the story. rdo for instance, says that he loves Proust's "In Search of Lost Time". I believe that over the years, his experience of reading fiction allowed him to read more deeply and love one of the most complex literary works ever. I don't think he would have liked Proust as a kid and I don't think you could ask someone who'd never read a novel before to love Proust right away. Most readers today view finishing Proust or Joyce's Ulysses as a herculean project. But most of us come to love more complex stories as we read more and age, without even thinking about our own growth process.
rdo is right to question whether a conscious effort to understand a piece of art is necessary or worth it. If any of you are still reading this, look quickly at two shortish entries by Caroline Weber in the NYT about "In Search of Lost Time"; they make you realize that Proust was like Brahms making topical jokes to his contemporaries and that you're not likely to get those jokes without some research and help.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/02/books/proust-project.html#/#weber3
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/02/books/proust-project.html#/#weber2
Once you learn the cultural and artistic references that Proust used to poke fun at the pretentiousness and silliness of some of his characters, you realize that Proust could be very, very funny. But the jokes are like pressed and dried flowers: you can work at bringing them back to life but they don't have all the power that they did back in their day.
It's up to each reader and listener to decide how hard to work to understand and perhaps like a piece of music that doesn't appeal right away. It's up to each of us to decide how receptive to be to a piece or style or art, as rdo put it. As we age, I think our receptivity, and willingness to listen differently, declines. Most of us wind up preferring the music of our youth when a lot of popular music seemed to be speaking directly to us, seemed to be a soundtrack to our lives.
The notion of 'song complexity' is mentioned over 100 times on this comments board, but a precise definition seems to be elusive.
For anyone interested, here is a mathematical take on the subject (a little tongue-in-cheek) from a well-known computer scientist Donald Knuth ->
www.cs.utexas.edu/users/arvindn/misc/knuth_song_complexity.pdf
For anyone interested, here is a mathematical take on the subject (a little tongue-in-cheek) from a well-known computer scientist Donald Knuth ->
www.cs.utexas.edu/users/arvindn/misc/knuth_song_complexity.pdf
Don Knuth, that wild and crazy guy! I think just looking at and comparing sheet music can give you an idea of which songs are more complex than others. I think...
From what I remember, my basic argument here is that some songs are so complex (i.e. have so much structure, overlapping musical lines and a higher number of musical ideas all demanding greater technical mastery by musicians) that listeners unfamiliar with that type or style of music may not immediately like those songs.
I think you can come to understand and perhaps intuitively like those kind of songs through exposure as a kid, training in playing a musical instrument and/or instruction in musical theory. Those three paths of learning help people hear more of what's "going on" in a piece; the wall of sounds turn into separate aural strands that people can more readily follow, remember and like.
Fr'instance, Bach and Brahms would embed snatches of folk songs into their pieces that people today wouldn't know. But both men were pulling at their contemporary listeners heart strings and pushing them to emotionally remember their villages, guilds, churches, etc and associate them with the piece that contained them. (Brahms composed the "Academic Overture" for a ceremony in which he was given an honorary doctorate but put snatches of college drinking songs throughout the piece. The academics recognized the drinking songs and apparently many laughed along with Brahms' poke at them. Wikipedia's brief entry on the piece echoes some of my ideas.)
Today's listeners wouldn't recognize the musical references that Bach and Brahms made. Learning about them and/or learning how to the play instruments for that piece may help you pick up on musical strands in the piece and may induce you to appreciate or even love the piece. Making those efforts may also not move the needle for you at all.
Just because the Academic Overture has some complexity doesn't mean it's superior to other types of music. Learning how to play an instrument or learning about a piece or repeatedly listening to it doesn't make you a superior person; these efforts might expand the range of your musical preferences, though. You might get the same expansive benefit just by going through life and listening to different styles of music.
I think people go through the same process with books, visual art and other forms of art as they grow up. Most of us don't read the same books we read as kids; we look for books with deeper meanings and irony, plot complexity, more fully fleshed-out characters, a greater degree of loss in the story. rdo for instance, says that he loves Proust's "In Search of Lost Time". I believe that over the years, his experience of reading fiction allowed him to read more deeply and love one of the most complex literary works ever. I don't think he would have liked Proust as a kid and I don't think you could ask someone who'd never read a novel before to love Proust right away. Most readers today view finishing Proust or Joyce's Ulysses as a herculean project. But most of us come to love more complex stories as we read more and age, without even thinking about our own growth process.
rdo is right to question whether a conscious effort to understand a piece of art is necessary or worth it. If any of you are still reading this, look quickly at two shortish entries by Caroline Weber in the NYT about "In Search of Lost Time"; they make you realize that Proust was like Brahms making topical jokes to his contemporaries and that you're not likely to get those jokes without some research and help.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/02/books/proust-project.html#/#weber3
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/02/books/proust-project.html#/#weber2
Once you learn the cultural and artistic references that Proust used to poke fun at the pretentiousness and silliness of some of his characters, you realize that Proust could be very, very funny. But the jokes are like pressed and dried flowers: you can work at bringing them back to life but they don't have all the power that they did back in their day.
It's up to each reader and listener to decide how hard to work to understand and perhaps like a piece of music that doesn't appeal right away. It's up to each of us to decide how receptive to be to a piece or style or art, as rdo put it. As we age, I think our receptivity, and willingness to listen differently, declines. Most of us wind up preferring the music of our youth when a lot of popular music seemed to be speaking directly to us, seemed to be a soundtrack to our lives.
Well, my english is not so good to fully understand what "sucko-barfo" is, but i hope it's bad enough word for this kind of "music"
my only "1" so far
my only "1" so far
This guy flows like a beautiful mountain stream . . . .
nicknt wrote:
As much as that!?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh ! 1/10
As much as that!?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh ! 1/10
This is great music for doing excel spreadsheets! Just keep it at the side and tinker
:)
Parb
:)
Parb
The notion of 'song complexity' is mentioned over 100 times on this comments board, but a precise definition seems to be elusive.
For anyone interested, here is a mathematical take on the subject (a little tongue-in-cheek) from a well-known computer scientist Donald Knuth ->
www.cs.utexas.edu/users/arvindn/misc/knuth_song_complexity.pdf
For anyone interested, here is a mathematical take on the subject (a little tongue-in-cheek) from a well-known computer scientist Donald Knuth ->
www.cs.utexas.edu/users/arvindn/misc/knuth_song_complexity.pdf
i find most of this guy's stuff pretty boring.
Wow! What a nice segue after Younger Brother's Shine! Serendipity or not, I enjoyed it! Thanks RP! 
next time it will be PSD, maybe two times, or even three
That had an incredible restraint.. what a beautiful modern piano piece.
miamizsun wrote:
and i like the song very much
Me too.
and i like the song very much
Me too.
Nah, he just lives next door to Mr P Glass.
A musical alternative to diphenhydramine hydrochloride perhaps?
mark me down for the "Lovers" column please -- 7
Proclivities wrote:
and i like the song very much
The apparent winner of the song with the longest post ever...the wheels have fallen off.
It's odd how much animated and heated discussion this guy's music inspires. I thought the whole point of this music was one of quiet reflection, or just to be "background" music.
It's odd how much animated and heated discussion this guy's music inspires. I thought the whole point of this music was one of quiet reflection, or just to be "background" music.
and i like the song very much
The apparent winner of the song with the longest post ever*...the wheels have fallen off.
It's odd how much animated and heated discussion this guy's music inspires. I thought the whole point of this music was one of quiet reflection, or just to be "background" music.
*Over 5, 900 words - 13 pages in MS Word. Longer than Swift's "A Modest Proposal" and over twice as long as Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart".
It's odd how much animated and heated discussion this guy's music inspires. I thought the whole point of this music was one of quiet reflection, or just to be "background" music.
*Over 5, 900 words - 13 pages in MS Word. Longer than Swift's "A Modest Proposal" and over twice as long as Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart".
Wow, looks like a little bed-time reading is in order...
Have never seen posts with so much research and intelligence behind them. I cannot read now as I am pretending to work, but am looking forward to the read later tonight!
It's refreshing, after so much "I don't like this band you do, you suck!"
Have never seen posts with so much research and intelligence behind them. I cannot read now as I am pretending to work, but am looking forward to the read later tonight!
It's refreshing, after so much "I don't like this band you do, you suck!"
In Italy you either love him and his music or hate it all. I absolutely belong to the latter group.
WHY DON'T YOU PRIMA DONNAS EXCHANGE EMAIL ADDRESS AND GET LOST? THIS IS A PLACE FOR MUSIC NOT HUGE EGOS.....
rdo wrote:
kcar wrote:
I do think that in general classical music and much jazz music are more complex and challenging than "eclectic" music ("mass-market" or "mainstream" would be a better term). Gutting agrees with me apparently and lists criteria for measuring complexity.
The process of becoming familiar with both types of music is largely the same, IMO, although the latter (classical) may take more work and formal education.
rdo responds:
Whatever the form of art we are talking about, the single most important thing on the part of the consumer of art is receptivity. The novice consumer is required to be as open-minded as the experienced aesthete. I think education brainwashes children into believing false notions like the existence of "fine" art. It does expose them to classical, which is a good thing, but it does not seem to impact their receptivity. Some people are going to be more responsive to art than others. I love poetry, for example. We do not need our children feeling stupid if they do not respond to the "fine" art of poetry. I believe this false notion has led to the death of poetry, and it is slowly killing fiction. These are things I care deeply about.
You and I do disagree about this notion of complexity, accessibility, and challenge. I reiterate that if you are trying really hard to appreciate something, then it simply means that you do not like it (i.e. it’s a matter of taste). Yes, give things many listens, be open-minded. Give something, anything, 20 concentrated listens. For me, complexity does not exist in music. “Simple” songs or “complex” songs, classical or eclectic, both may require 20 listens before I respond. Education is irrelevant.
As for my belief that eclectic is superior to classical...that's easy. I attribute that to taste. There is no contradication in my argument. I never said you and Gutting are wrong in preferring classical to eclectic (that, of course, is a matter of taste), but I do stress that you are wrong in making the claim that classical music is objectively more complex and less "accessible".
IDIOTS.....ALL EGO, NO SOUL.
I truly enjoyed your post. It is very well written, humorous, and we obviously agree on nearly everything, except maybe the points I make above. Thanks. I really appreciate that response. 
kcar wrote:
I do think that in general classical music and much jazz music are more complex and challenging than "eclectic" music ("mass-market" or "mainstream" would be a better term). Gutting agrees with me apparently and lists criteria for measuring complexity.
The process of becoming familiar with both types of music is largely the same, IMO, although the latter (classical) may take more work and formal education.
rdo responds:
Whatever the form of art we are talking about, the single most important thing on the part of the consumer of art is receptivity. The novice consumer is required to be as open-minded as the experienced aesthete. I think education brainwashes children into believing false notions like the existence of "fine" art. It does expose them to classical, which is a good thing, but it does not seem to impact their receptivity. Some people are going to be more responsive to art than others. I love poetry, for example. We do not need our children feeling stupid if they do not respond to the "fine" art of poetry. I believe this false notion has led to the death of poetry, and it is slowly killing fiction. These are things I care deeply about.
You and I do disagree about this notion of complexity, accessibility, and challenge. I reiterate that if you are trying really hard to appreciate something, then it simply means that you do not like it (i.e. it’s a matter of taste). Yes, give things many listens, be open-minded. Give something, anything, 20 concentrated listens. For me, complexity does not exist in music. “Simple” songs or “complex” songs, classical or eclectic, both may require 20 listens before I respond. Education is irrelevant.
As for my belief that eclectic is superior to classical...that's easy. I attribute that to taste. There is no contradication in my argument. I never said you and Gutting are wrong in preferring classical to eclectic (that, of course, is a matter of taste), but I do stress that you are wrong in making the claim that classical music is objectively more complex and less "accessible".
I truly enjoyed your post. It is very well written, humorous, and we obviously agree on nearly everything, except maybe the points I make above. Thanks. I really appreciate that response.
There are certain harmonic rules and musical patterns that are considered cheap and distasteful. The Einaudi tracks are dripping from those. The music is repeating, contains lots of parallel notes and lacks dissonants, rithm or any other particular reason to make it interesting. It's for the easy listening crowd. It also has a stamp of intellectualism and eclecticism which I think is completely incorrect. It's the riverdance of classical/minimal music. There is so much better out there.
You mean 'considered by you' as cheap and distasteful? Not a very convincing post, especially with the misspellings.