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Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 15, 2013 - 11:08am


kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 9:04am

 JrzyTmata wrote:

Start a new thread if it's that important to you.
 
True story.  This horse is obviously dead.

JrzyTmata

JrzyTmata Avatar



Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 9:01am

 kurtster wrote:

No.

Restore the title, please.  This discussion will continue with or without you or not at all.  Nothing is forcing you to participate.  Just make it easier for those who wish to continue.

 
Start a new thread if it's that important to you.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 8:56am

 hippiechick wrote:
Just let it die, okay?

 
No.

Restore the title, please.  This discussion will continue with or without you or not at all.  Nothing is forcing you to participate.  Just make it easier for those who wish to continue.
mzpro5

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Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 8:43am

 hippiechick wrote:
Just let it die, okay?

 
We'd all be glad to but experience shows that in a day or two you will make another off the cuff post that is insensitive and/or offensive to a certain group of people. Not sure which group but that's the fun I suppose.

Maybe you could resolve in the New Year to really think about your posts and read them before you hit the "submit" button.

Painted_Turtle

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Location: Land of Laughing Waters
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 8:10am

 hippiechick wrote:
Just let it die, okay?

 
...no, not okay.  Why? ...because I think the original intent was benefical...just the wording was a little too absolute.  there are always gray areas in a discussion...sometimes things are not always black or white.

I saw this thread as a possible continuation of the TED video on "good or evil" that Richard posted....so you see, different people view things in a different light.

edit: and then there are people that are just bozo the clown {#Arrowd}

kayc

kayc Avatar



Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 8:00am

How did you rename the thread? The single dot makes it hard for my hand-eye.

Anyway you wont learn anything if you just let it die. Looks like some good words in here.


hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:55am

Just let it die, okay?
Painted_Turtle

Painted_Turtle Avatar

Location: Land of Laughing Waters
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:55am

 hippiechick wrote:

Everyone is right, I am all wrongs, sorry I started this.


 
...you see?  you are associating your belief with you, yourself.  you are seeing attacks on you, yourself, where one isn't being given.

mzpro5

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Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:54am

 hippiechick wrote:

Everyone is right, I am all wrongs, sorry I started this.

 
Yeah things don't go your way so you pull out the "poor poor me" card.

You are right you did start the thread and had to realize such a topic could become volatile so don't act so surprised.

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:50am

 Painted_Turtle wrote:

...hummm, looks like sometimes people confuse their beliefs with they, themselves.  maybe.  I'm not seeing a personal attack, I'm seeing a disagreement with a characterization & the way it was delivered.  But, that's just my opinion & viewpoint.

I think its' hard to make a "blanket" statement about a group of people and have that "blanket" cover everyone in that group.  Generalizations of that type are bound to hurt some peoples feelings, as the generalization does not apply to them or people they know.  there will always be differences of opinions...no one is exactly alike or has a thinking process that is exactly alike.

mind reading doesn't work either. 
 
Everyone is right, I am all wrongs, sorry I started this.



Painted_Turtle

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Location: Land of Laughing Waters
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:48am

 hippiechick wrote:

No, I deleted it because I was getting personally attacked. That is not a discussion.
 
...hummm, looks like sometimes people confuse their beliefs with they, themselves.  maybe.  I'm not seeing a personal attack, I'm seeing a disagreement with a characterization & the way it was delivered.  But, that's just my opinion & viewpoint.

I think its' hard to make a "blanket" statement about a group of people and have that "blanket" cover everyone in that group.  Generalizations of that type are bound to hurt some peoples feelings, as the generalization does not apply to them or people they know.  there will always be differences of opinions...no one is exactly alike or has a thinking process that is exactly alike.

mind reading doesn't work either. 

ankhara99

ankhara99 Avatar

Location: Over the Rainbow
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:39am

 hippiechick wrote:

Sorry, I have heard many many religious people give that exact reason for believing in a god. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone, but I have heard it used as a reason for morality many many times. And I have heard them say "How can you have a moral base if you don't believe in god?"
 

I've heard that too.  And I've heard tell of a buch of Muslims who would blow others up and die for their God.  In other words, there are whack-jobs across the religious (and the non-religious) spectrum.  Painting all religious individuals with the brush used by the whack-jobs doesn't advance the thought that morality can be had without a religious driving mechanism.  And I think many of the less fervent religious individuals would agree that morality can be had without religion. 

Now, back to work. {#Wave}
mzpro5

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Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:38am

 hippiechick wrote:

Why do you say that?

And why do you feel the need to attack me personally because of my beliefs?
 
Because it is true.

And I am not personally attacking you - just some of the ignorant things that you post.

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:32am

 ankhara99 wrote:


You said "Religious people live moral lives because they think that god will punish them if they don't. Atheists live moral lives just because it's the right thing to do"

So you assigned motive behind people's morality and you did it in a very limited way.  People have a myriad of motivations for morality.  Some religious, some spiritual, some just because they believe it is the right thing to do.  You are being chastised for a comment that was ill conceived and even more poorly written.

Personally, I agree that you don't need religion to have morality, but the statement that you made limiting why religious people and atheists have morality is derailing this conversation to the point where you felt you had to delete it.

Winter summed it up nicely at the end.
 
Sorry, I have heard many many religious people give that exact reason for believing in a god. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone, but I have heard it used as a reason for morality many many times. And I have heard them say "How can you have a moral base if you don't believe in god?"

ankhara99

ankhara99 Avatar

Location: Over the Rainbow
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:27am

 hippiechick wrote:

Wait! Did I say that all religious people believe in one thing and all atheists believe in something else? No. I just said, a few times, that morality and a belief in a god are not exclusive. And apparently you agree with that.
 

You said "Religious people live moral lives because they think that god will punish them if they don't. Atheists live moral lives just because it's the right thing to do"

So you assigned motive behind people's morality and you did it in a very limited way.  People have a myriad of motivations for morality.  Some religious, some spiritual, some just because they believe it is the right thing to do.  You are being chastised for a comment that was ill conceived and even more poorly written.

Personally, I agree that you don't need religion to have morality, but the statement that you made limiting why religious people and atheists have morality is derailing this conversation to the point where you felt you had to delete it.

Winter summed it up nicely at the end.

hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:24am

 Painted_Turtle wrote:
 JrzyTmata wrote:
where'd the thread go?

{#Ask}...I was wondering the same thing....one minute I was reading it and thinking about it...and POOF! its suddenly gone.

...guees its originator decided that if people didn't agree with her line of thinking and actually strayed slightly from the "approved" line of discussion it should be deleted.

..too bad, it was  interesting and perhaps benefical.

 
No, I deleted it because I was getting personally attacked. That is not a discussion.

Painted_Turtle

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Location: Land of Laughing Waters
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:22am

 JrzyTmata wrote:
where'd the thread go?

{#Ask}...I was wondering the same thing....one minute I was reading it and thinking about it...and POOF! its suddenly gone.

...guees its originator decided that if people didn't agree with her line of thinking and actually strayed slightly from the "approved" line of discussion it should be deleted.

..too bad, it was  interesting and perhaps benefical.


hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:15am

 winter wrote:

It's a truth universally acknowledged that universally acknowledged truths are often crap. For someone who claims not to believe in truths so much as stories, you talk in a lot of absolutes. For someone who tries to tells the rest of us not to judge, you spend a lot of energy judging. I'm an atheist. I try to live morally because the other way's no way to live, and because there's enough suffering in the world without me adding to the sum total. So do most of the people of faith I know. I'm not going to waste a lot of time on this. But I think you owe a lot of people an apology. It's not faith or conservatism or any external thing that makes people behave badly. It's their own choice to do what they do, and it's almost never for one simple reason. People are complicated. Any effort to reduce all that to a simple slogan or overarching ideal is diminishing and dehumanizing.

 
Wait! Did I say that all religious people believe in one thing and all atheists believe in something else? No. I just said, a few times, that morality and a belief in a god are not exclusive. And apparently you agree with that.

winter

winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2010 - 7:12am

 hippiechick wrote:

Religious people live moral lives because they think that god will punish them if they don't. Atheists live moral lives just because it's the right thing to do.

And besides, there is no proof that people who believe in a god have a stronger moral belief; in fact, I believe that RG states just the opposite.
 


It's a truth universally acknowledged that universally acknowledged truths are often crap.

For someone who claims not to believe in truths so much as stories, you talk in a lot of absolutes. For someone who tries to tells the rest of us not to judge, you spend a lot of energy judging.

I'm an atheist. I try to live morally because the other way's no way to live, and because there's enough suffering in the world without me adding to the sum total. So do most of the people of faith I know.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time on this. But I think you owe a lot of people an apology. It's not faith or conservatism or any external thing that makes people behave badly. It's their own choice to do what they do, and it's almost never for one simple reason. People are complicated. Any effort to reduce all that to a simple slogan or overarching ideal is diminishing and dehumanizing.
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