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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 24, 25, 26  Next
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Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2017 - 12:09pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Shouldn't they be doing that on, like, Mars?
 
It's expensive enough!

And you've got it backward: pull this off and then Mars is within reach. The asteroid belt too.
Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Dec 6, 2017 - 11:55am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Shouldn't they be doing that on, like, Mars?

 
I wonder where the technology would be by now if we'd poured all the money spent on this into solar collection technology.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2017 - 11:47am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
Shouldn't they be doing that on, like, Mars?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2017 - 11:02am

and here's the newsletter on the development of the Wendelstein facility in German which might be using a better geometry.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 6, 2017 - 10:07am

I'm going to touch your pineapple!
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 8:37am

i've posted about thorcon before (not sure which thread)

hargraves is making a case that nuclear is safer and cheaper than coal (while keeping co2 in check)

possibly targeting asian energy needs as a market




miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 26, 2017 - 5:39am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Cool stuff J.  Really hope this works.

 
i'd like to see small modular units mass produced

think assembly line (for instance one company wants to buy an old aircraft plant and set up mass production of small units that could fit in the bed of a pick-up truck)

all of the tech/design open sourced

imagine a third world country with little or no production (poor quality of life) getting access to practically unlimited energy (green no less)

we know energy is key to increasing life/health span (especially stabilizing population)

exponential technology/growth could dramatically increase the quality of life and environment

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 26, 2017 - 5:10am

 miamizsun wrote:

as i understand it the oak ridge project (mentioned in the article) used thorium and in the design (see lower left) is similar to this in that if there was a failure/emergency the freeze plug thaws and

the medium drains into the dump tanks and shut is certain (walk away safe) and the unit is still intact and unharmed

i'm not sure how that is recovered or dealt with (see Fixable here)

maybe someone will add to our conversation

it would seem to me that if it was re-heated it would become molten again and i believe that would be done off site (at the production facility)

thanks for your interest

 
Cool stuff J.  Really hope this works.
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 26, 2017 - 4:54am

 haresfur wrote:

There have been other molten salt reactors. I think there was one used for tritium production. I'm no expert but I thought one of the downsides was that, if you did a complete cold shut-down, it was screwed forever. 

 
as i understand it the oak ridge project (mentioned in the article) used thorium and in the design (see lower left) is similar to this in that if there was a failure/emergency the freeze plug thaws and

the medium drains into the dump tanks and shut down is certain (walk away safe) and the unit is still intact and unharmed

i'm not sure how that is recovered or dealt with (see Fixable here)

maybe someone will add to our conversation

it would seem to me that if it was re-heated it would become molten again and i believe that would be done off site (at the production facility)



thanks for your interest


haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 5:18pm

 miamizsun wrote: 
There have been other molten salt reactors. I think there was one used for tritium production. I'm no expert but I thought one of the downsides was that, if you did a complete cold shut-down, it was screwed forever. 
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 3:15pm

Terrestrial Energy notifies nuclear regulator of planned 2019 molten salt reactor licensing application

Terrestrial Energy USA announced today it had informed the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) of its plans to license a small modular reactor (SMR) in the USA. Terrestrial said it intends to start "pre-application interactions" with the regulator this year and to make its licensing application in late 2019.

The NRC recently published a letter from Terrestrial responding to the agency's Regulatory Issue Summary (RIS) published on 7 June last year. An RIS is an NRC request for information regarding future nuclear reactor licence filings.

In its letter, dated 18 November 2016, Terrestrial said it plans to submit an application to the NRC for a design certification or a construction permit "no later than October 2019".

Terrestrial included the status of the design, analyses, testing, licensing, and project planning for its Integral Molten Salt Reactor (IMSR), which is a liquid-fuelled, high-temperature, 400 MWt advanced reactor power plant design

Why is Terrestrial Energy's Integral Molten Salt Reactor a big deal ?
  • A molten salt 7.4 MWth test reactor was operated at Oak Ridge from 1965-1969. So no question about technical feasability
  • A conservative first IMSR design should be competitive with established power at about 3 cents per kWh
  • Later designs should be able to get lower than 1 cent per kWh
  • Design is walk away safe with passive safety systems
  • First designs would produce 6 times less nuclear waste and later designs can close the fuel cycle
  • Canada can use the first several hundred reactors to directly produce steam to profitably produce oil from the oilsands
  • Canada and Terrestrial Energy can thus use the oilsand reactors to profitably climb the learning curve before factory mass production of supersafe, super efficient and disruptively lower cost reactors
  • These system could provide 100% of global electricity demand without any emissions
Last year, New York-headquartered Terrestrial Energy USA's parent, Canada's Terrestrial Energy Inc, announced its plans to engage with the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission in a pre-licensing design review, a first step towards an eventual licence application.
Here is information from an October 2016 Terrestrial Energy presentation on their Integral Molten Salt Reactor

Introduction to Terrestrial Energy
• Terrestrial Energy
• Commercializing a SMR for 2020s deployment
- Cost-competitive with fossil fuel combustion
- Ideal for industrial heat and SMR markets
• Technology – next generation Molten Salt Reactor (“MSR”)
• Proprietary MSR design – the Integral Molten Salt Reactor (“IMSR™”)
• High technology readiness
• Conducting basic/preliminary engineering work
- Concludes with construction and licensing of the first commercial IMSR power plant (400 MWth reactor)
• IMSR development and deployment
• Supported by power utility industry and senior executives, industrial companies, environmentalists and the Canadian Government and DOE
• Commenced VDR with Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission (“CNSC”)
- First MSR vendor to commence regulatory process
• Terrestrial Energy is a leading advanced reactor developer in a fast developing cleantech sector

Advantages of Molten Salt Reactors
• Safety
• Enhanced ability for passive decay heat removal
• Inherent Stability from strong negative reactivity coefficients
• Low pressure and no chemical driving force
• Caesium and Iodine stable within the fuel salt
• Reduced Capital Cost
• Inherent safety can simplify entire facility
• Low pressure, high thermal efficiency, superior coolants (smaller pumps, heat exchangers). No complex refuelling mechanisms
• Long Lived Waste Issues
• Ideal system for consuming existing transuranic wastes
• Even MSR-Burners can close fuel cycle and see almost no transuranics going to waste
• Resource Sustainability and Low Fuel Cycle Cost
• Thorium breeders obvious but MSR-Burners also very efficient on uranium use 

Terrestrial Energy Integral Molten Salt Reactor
• LEU fueled MSR-Burner design like the 1980 DMSR
• Integrates all primary systems into a sealed reactor Core unit
• 7 year Core unit “Seal and Swap” approach to graphite lifetime
• Shorter lifetime for vessel and HX simplify qualification
• Planned as 400 MWth (~ 192 MWe)
• Alternate salt and new off gas system
• New passive decay heat removal in situ without dump tanks
• Safety at forefront which leads to cost innovation

miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 24, 2017 - 6:44am

 haresfur wrote:

China knows they need to do something about air quality. They are also good at looking ahead to plan for long term economic advantage.

I've probably said before, I don't think nuclear is great (don't know enough about thorium to comment, I probably should do some reading sometime). However coal is the real scourge, and if people want the benefits of lots of energy supply they should be willing to take the risks of nuclear while working to modernize to safer designs.

I'm all in favour of increasing efficiency and renewables (well except for the environmental impacts of hydro) and investment in that area creates far more jobs than coal or petroleum. Still we are a long way from filling the demand. 

 
i think there's some good news regarding all of this in that quite a few people are proposing small modular reactors

something that may be mass produced (assembly line) and transported relatively easy

so countries that aren't even on that map/chart could be an eventual prospect for such a product



haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 3:54pm

 miamizsun wrote:

i thought i linked the image to the article (now i'm not sure what site/article i plucked it from)

france is in the nuclear business in a big way

i think they may be the largest (or one of the largest) exporters of electricity - i'm sure they're getting paid)

i read where china is stopping construction on like 100 or so coal plants

 
China knows they need to do something about air quality. They are also good at looking ahead to plan for long term economic advantage.

I've probably said before, I don't think nuclear is great (don't know enough about thorium to comment, I probably should do some reading sometime). However coal is the real scourge, and if people want the benefits of lots of energy supply they should be willing to take the risks of nuclear while working to modernize to safer designs.

I'm all in favour of increasing efficiency and renewables (well except for the environmental impacts of hydro) and investment in that area creates far more jobs than coal or petroleum. Still we are a long way from filling the demand. 
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 3:30pm

 islander wrote:
 Looks to me like China and India are planning on having plenty of electricity, maybe even enough to sell as a commodity. Russia is revamping their old infrastructure to be sure they aren't beholden to China to keep the lights on, they will probably be selling oil and gas to the US and the UK. France is a bit misleading because it's only thier very old reactors that are being phased out they have a new design (european pressure reactor) plant that is scheduled to come online soon but is held back by economics and politics right now - makes you wonder if they have presented to information in order to further a particular position...
 
i thought i linked the image to the article (now i'm not sure what site/article i plucked it from)

france is in the nuclear business in a big way

i think they may be the largest (or one of the largest) exporters of electricity - i'm sure they're getting paid)

i read where china is stopping construction on like 100 or so coal plants


Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 1:40pm

 islander wrote:
France is a bit misleading because it's only thier very old reactors that are being phased out they have a new design (european pressure reactor) plant that is scheduled to come online soon but is held back by economics and politics right now - makes you wonder if they have presented to information in order to further a particular position.

Roger. France is in no way backing away from nuclear power:

puissance nucleair
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 12:54pm

 rhahl wrote:
 islander wrote:
Looks to me like China and India are planning on having plenty of electricity, maybe even enough to sell as a commodity. Russia is revamping their old infrastructure to be sure they aren't beholden to China to keep the lights on, they will probably be selling oil and gas to the US and the UK.
 

Might it have something to do with making nuclear weapons? Just asking, I don't know.

 
Nah. You operate power reactors completely differently from a weapons production reactor, even if it is a design that is practical to use for both.
rhahl

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Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 11:40am

 islander wrote:
Looks to me like China and India are planning on having plenty of electricity, maybe even enough to sell as a commodity. Russia is revamping their old infrastructure to be sure they aren't beholden to China to keep the lights on, they will probably be selling oil and gas to the US and the UK.
 

Might it have something to do with making nuclear weapons? Just asking, I don't know.
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 9:47am

 miamizsun wrote:
i wonder what this chart says about the future of nuclear energy?



 








Looks to me like China and India are planning on having plenty of electricity, maybe even enough to sell as a commodity. Russia is revamping their old infrastructure to be sure they aren't beholden to China to keep the lights on, they will probably be selling oil and gas to the US and the UK. France is a bit misleading because it's only thier very old reactors that are being phased out they have a new design (european pressure reactor) plant that is scheduled to come online soon but is held back by economics and politics right now - makes you wonder if they have presented to information in order to further a particular position...

miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 - 8:43am

i wonder what this chart says about the future of nuclear energy?




DaveInSaoMiguel

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Location: No longer in a hovel in effluent Damnville, VA
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Posted: Apr 8, 2016 - 5:58pm


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