Skaterella wrote: 
It's from the Gospel of St. Thomas - actually, I don't know if that's from the bible or not. Sounds like it, though.

 Manbird wrote: 


Hey I don't remember that part! But I'll give you points fir style ; )

 Manbird wrote: 
It's clumsy. However, I did cut the squash into small rings.

 Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

"Your thoughts build your life." 
~Buddha

 miamizsun wrote:
Thou maketh me! 
 

 Skaterella wrote:I'm sure your amygdala is fine, whichever way it swings. My point (which I'm sure I could have made more concisely, but I got to wandering) was that it is curious that a theology that seems in accord with left-wing values would apparently strongly appeal to right-wingers, and I was trying to think (out loud) about whether the amygdala thing could lead people to embrace something that, rationally, they shouldn't embrace, given their values. But I think I ended up talking in circles. Again. *sigh*

I do think it's useful and sobering to try to imagine the world as seen by someone who has a different fundamental reaction to it. For example, I am, by nature, trusting and inclusive. Probably not by coincidence, I am also left of centre politically. So I try to imagine, say, walking on the street and passing someone who fits some ethnic picture and having that experience alarm me... actually hit me in the gut, frighten me, worry me. Not because of any evidence I have that something bad will happen, just a visceral reaction that I can't control. It's hard for me to put myself in those shoes, but I think I must if I'm to understand how a fearful "us-versus-them" person sees the world, and therefore how such a person could gravitate to a sociopolitical view that, rationally, might not be in their best interest.

And I think Jesus was not just rocking the boat for the "haves", but also saying that there is another legitimate world-view — one of inclusion and trust rather than exclusion and fear.

 Manbird wrote:
try using your third eye

 FooledAgain wrote: 


There must be something wrong with my amygdala cause I'm not quite getting you... That being said, I think Jesus' public life was very much a social movement & about challenging the powers
that be - which is ultimately,IMO, what got him killed. He was essentially rocking the boat for "the haves." They'd sorta struck a deal with the occupying Roman forces- they'd keep the rabble in line & the Romans would let them largely leave them alone to do their thing. It worked out well for both sides- until voices of dissent popped up & were quickly & brutally squashed.

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

 Skaterella wrote: 
I'm trying to think about this in the context of the recent scientific studies suggesting (not proving) that people are attracted to a left-wing or right-wing political stance not so much because of rational assessment of those positions but because of built-in predilections determined by the functioning of their amygdala, which governs fear response (the bigger, the scaredier). That is, the right wing is that collection of people who are biologically motivated by fear of otherness, while the left wing is that collection of people who are motivated by trust and a sense of inclusion. That's the theory, anyway, very loosely and simplistically speaking.

Now, I don't have much skin in this game, being an atheist. But it seems to me that Christian theology was quite a break from what had gone before, which emphasised fear and retribution and exclusion — the slaying of enemies, the taking of slaves, the punishing of those who wore mismatched fabrics, and so on. And it may be that such conservative, us-versus-them, "right wing" theology/sociology was the better plan thousands of years ago, when you could only count on your immediate clan for safety and prosperity. Christ's message must have seemed quite naive to the powers that ... um... be-ed, which it might well have been.

Of course, the powers that currently be also seem pretty dismissive of his message, and why wouldn't they be? They are mostly conservatives who seem to fear and distrust others, or sociopaths who know how to manipulate the fearful by publicly echoing and amplifying those fears for their own purposes, regardless of their personal beliefs or lack thereof.

I was about to write that it must be difficult for right wing Christians to reconcile Christ's words with their own instinctive reactions of fear and suspicion. But I just remembered that another characteristic of the thought processes of these "active amygdala" people is a high tolerance for cognitive dissonance. I'm not saying left wingers can't be cognitively dissonant too... but when it's pointed out to them they recognise it and are embarrassed (boy, do they squirm!).

i didn't get this from the bible, but it is profound

"The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right (proper) names"

~chinese proverb

 Skaterella wrote: 
What a beautiful way of putting it. Especially the concept that we get a "taste" of both heaven and hell here on earth. I've often heard the belief that hell is separation from God and heaven is closeness or communion with Him, but I never thought of how that might translate to our time here. I'll try to think about this.

 oldviolin wrote:  
 ⁴⁰ "The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

⁴¹ "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴² For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'      

In regards to the post from ErikX about these verses being for the Christian Right, I'd agree that conservative Christians would interpret this pretty literally & focus on the fire & brimstone stuff.  Personally, I have a very liberal theology & find this passsage to be very much about social justice.  Jesus is clearly admonishing His followers to treat the marginalized in society with care & compassion.

In terms of the eternal fire, many people (with liberal theology) believe that "hell" is a separation from God, ie a separation from goodness, justice, compassion,etc.  and that we can/do experience that separation in this lifetime.  And that we can also experience goodness,love etc  and in some way have the experience of the eternal in this lifetime ie an experience of God. 

Its sorta the difference between being completely oblivious to the world around you, completely caught up in your own happiness (to an excessive degree ) vs being connected to the larger community/humanity as a whole.  The callous Wall Street millionaire who has no idea how much suffering there is in the world & doesn't care vs the person who takes a job where they are grossly underpaid but do it because its important work that helps people. 

For me, a lot of Christian theology is about connection to the larger community of humanity & that's where, IMO, we experience the eternal and the goodness of God.  I think religious institutions over the years have made it about "pie in the sky when you die" because honestly I don't think most people want to think about it beyond that.  Churches are happy to tell people what they want to hear because it makes both sides happy.

Christianity focus' largely on the death of Jesus but clearly His life and the work he did in the world were, to me, more important & when we live a life modeled after His life (which means being peaceful, being on the side of justice for the weakest members of our community) it's there that we exerience/share in Jesus' life and the heaven that is often talked about. 

 ErikX wrote: 
Ooh, good one. Quite an opportunistic twist of the knife. I salute your weapon of choice, though I'm afraid I doubt the merit of your sincerity. Still, I believe in the organic extrapolation of man minced with words. Perhaps you'll reflect on the very wounds you're attempting to inflict at the precise point of your healing. "Everyone in their own time," my friend often says...

 Skaterella wrote: 
Hahaha- Riiight, when Old English was 1000 years in the future and the New Testament wasnt written for another 300 years or so-in Greek! 

 oldslabsides wrote: 


A friend of mine was preaching & a woman stood up & started arguing with her for not using the KJV. The woman told the pastor , " the KJ bible is the bible Jesus used...". Hehehe!

 imnotpc wrote: 


It's a journey- with lots of ups & downs.
One of my very favorite verses which may be helpful- I believe.lord, heal my unbelief .

 ErikX wrote: 


It's also a cool song by Cake.
(Sheep go to heaven. Goats, go to hell.)

 oldslabsides wrote: 
no croasted horn beans?