Maybe you're right about real estate developers boasting all the time about how wonderful they are and how everything they do is the biggest and best, but I don't recall any real estate developers equalling Trump's extreme and obnoxious behavior.
Let's put that aside. Trump isn't running for a development position. He's campaigning to be the most important and powerful politician in our country. Do you think his boasting and abusiveness and refusal to cooperate with his others is going to help him succeed or fail with Congress, the Supreme Court, state governments, and other countries?
Look at how quickly Ted Cruz alienated fellow members of his own party serving in Congress. John Boehner called him "Lucifer in the Flesh" and said "I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life." Trump is far, far worse than Cruz. Trump as President would poison our relations with just about every other country in the world.
And Trump has already recovered. I see Cruz as the worst possible of the two.
No doubt Trump has an ego and confidence that enables him to push boundaries. That's how you get things done in real estate development. The egos to be found with developers and architects is not much different from those of actors, doctors, lawyers, politicians and preachers. That's my view on that.
Building something from nothing is a ballet. The amount of coordination, timing, estimation of materials and bidding, organizing contractors, cash flow and dealing with politicians at the local, county, state and federal level, by way of zoning issues, infrastructure improvements, environmental issues and property taxation is enormous. Then try doing all that in a foreign country, over and over again. But I know of this and wonder what the general public knows about any of this. I'd like to think that its common knowledge, but I suspect not.
You don't get very many opportunities to screw up and stay in business on the level that Trump deals with. You can't get very far if you're surrounded by yes men either. It requires you to listen to all sides and find a way to make all sides happy. I have watched all this happen throughout my own life growing up.
My Dad was a California licensed architect who went to Cal. He accomplished many things before he passed. He was the primary architect and coordinator for Leisure World's expansion in the 60's starting in Walnut Creek, Ca and then moving south to take over Laguna Hills in Orange County and other projects like the one in New Jersey. He was personally responsible for getting PVC plumbing allowed in the California State building code. They had to build a house and burn it down to satisfy the fire requirements. I have a recollection of actually watching the fire. Next, he went to work for Bechtel (that big nasty contractor) and oversaw their first venture into residential development on the old Warner Brother's Ranch in Calabasas, Ca. We moved east to Philly in 68 where he worked for Korman Corporation and a stint with HUD, before we moved to Ohio in 71 and he worked on a residential development that lasted some 20 years. Along the way, he did many other projects, big and small, commercial residential and industrial. He designed and built the original Dymo Label factory in the SF East Bay back in the very early 60's. Right around the time that John Glenn took his ride. We were making ton's of labels that said A / OK and passing them out and sticking them on anything that didn't move fast enough. Somewhere I have one of the prototypes of the original metal label maker.
Me, besides having lived through all of that, I have a very current 2007 BBA in Organizational Management that was run like a Masters program, which I came out magna cum laude, if I do say so. My wife was a licensed general contractor in California and launched her own business here when she moved out her 15 years ago. I only mention all this to offer that I have some credibility on this. Its not like I'm an English major preaching how to run a business. No offense to all the English majors.
This is the filter I use to see past all of his rhetoric and bluster. And I'm only speaking his about skills as a business man. The other parts ... everyone can come to their own conclusions.
I want to break this glass ceiling that says only politicians can govern this country. Who says a business man can't run this country ? We'll never know until we try. We have checks and balances that keep us on the rails as a country. They should still work even if Trump is elected.
(...) Trump as President would poison our relations with just about every other country in the world.
Obviously speculative, however some people, of a myopic exceptionally unilateral bent, likely couldn't care less. We dictate, you follow. Like telling your neighbour you're building a wall and getting them to pay for it.
Those remarks are not directed at you. You generally take me seriously and respectfully as I try and do you.
Just to offer a thought on the bolded. Trump comes from the world of real estate. Its an entirely different animal than any other kind of business. His demeanor is what is required to get it done in that world. You must constantly sell yourself to convince others (like banks and financiers) that you have a real vision, the required resources to get it done and the will to get it done, just to get things off of blueprints and actual shovels in the ground. I grew up in that world and that's some of why I cut him slack on a lot of his stuff.
Maybe you're right about real estate developers boasting all the time about how wonderful they are and how everything they do is the biggest and best, but I don't recall any real estate developers equalling Trump's extreme and obnoxious behavior.
Let's put that aside. Trump isn't running for a development position. He's campaigning to be the most important and powerful politician in our country. Do you think his boasting and abusiveness and refusal to cooperate with his others is going to help him succeed or fail with Congress, the Supreme Court, state governments, and other countries?
Look at how quickly Ted Cruz alienated fellow members of his own party serving in Congress. John Boehner called him "Lucifer in the Flesh" and said "I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life." Trump is far, far worse than Cruz. Trump as President would poison our relations with just about every other country in the world.
I don't recall questioning your character or intelligence. As far as I can tell, your preference for Trump is based at least partly on your personal experiences with illegal immigration. I think Bernie is also speaking to Americans' personal experiences with expensive health care and college education. My guess is that voters will support the candidate who talks about their problems directly.
I put the same questions to supporters of Trump and Sanders: how are your candidate's promises supposed to become law or policy? Given the realities of Washington, what are the chances that those promises become reality? How much are they really going to cost? Aren't you worried that your candidate can't or won't provide you with details of implementation that make sense?
Clinton's promises deserve the same scrutiny and skepticism. All three candidates are promising big changes to America. Responsible voters are going to demand all the details and assess whether a candidate is actually going to get anything done.
I dislike Trump because he promises the moon but can't explain how he's going to make his promises reality. Many of his promises don't work even as theory. Some of his ideas (like the ones on global warming) would get him a failing grade on a high school quiz on current events.
The main reason I dislike Trump is that he never stops bragging and insulting. Most of us have come across someone like that in our lives—mostly in junior high or high school—and we don't want to have anything to do with that person.
The Trump I see talks mostly about the Magnificence of Trump. Most politicians have healthy egos but are basically driven to help others. Trump just wants to glorify Trump.
Those remarks are not directed at you. You generally take me seriously and respectfully as I try and do you.
Just to offer a thought on the bolded. Trump comes from the world of real estate. Its an entirely different animal than any other kind of business. His demeanor is what is required to get it done in that world. You must constantly sell yourself to convince others (like banks and financiers) that you have a real vision, the required resources to get it done and the will to get it done, just to get things off of blueprints and actual shovels in the ground. I grew up in that world and that's some of why I cut him slack on a lot of his stuff.
I think maybe you need a break. You decide out of the blue to answer a post that was not even directed to you with a red herring, and then get all defensive when your attempt at misdirection is called out by buddy.
I don't apply the labels you mention to you or any other posters. I focus on the alleged qualifications of Trump, and on my opinion of the statements people make on his behalf. I try to avoid ad hominem attacks.
If you truly are sick of it all, why do you engage? And are you really entitled to play the martyr card? I can't speak for others, but myself, I still believe that we can have civil discourse on any topic. Perhaps there is a specific person here who has called you "stupid", "racist", "xenophobic", "homophobic", "bigoted", etc., and if so, they shouldn't (I think speech or behavior that has these characteristics, particularly that of a candidate for office, deserves to be called out). But painting everyone who disagrees with you with the same broad stereotype based on ad hominem attacks and labels that you're likely to see on 4chan is not going to gain you any sympathy from those you are trying to persuade.
I have no problems with buddy and I think he knows how to read me without any explanations.
Martyr, really ? You've got to be kidding. Just calling em as I see em. My hide is thick and scarred from over the many years here. I have cut my presence here way back cuz I have little new to add to anything I've already said in these follytics threads. More rebuttals than anything else.
The main reason I dislike Trump is that he never stops bragging and insulting. Most of us have come across someone like that in our lives—mostly in junior high or high school—and we don't want to have anything to do with that person.
The Trump I see is all about Donald Trump. Most politicians have healthy egos but are basically driven to help others. Trump just wants to glorify Trump.
I have the same general approach when I look at hiring people. Some of what I judge them on is their knowledge background: are they incompetent or at least trained? But that alone isn't the only criterion. Once I know they're trained in the scope of what I expect them to do, I wonder about their character. Will they get along with their colleagues? Will they form alliances or create drama?
Applying that to the Presidency, Trump is clearly incompetent in the ways of how all of our government works, since he's never held public office ever. But, is it made up for by his ability to form alliances that create an upward moving team? There are certainly factions that will align behind him, but not the nation.
The only other questions I see being asked in here are how can people be so stupid, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, chauvinistic, bigoted or ignorant to vote for Trump.
I'm one of two people here, and the only one who can vote on it that, openly supports Trump. How many times am I supposed to answer how can I be so stupid, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, chauvinistic, bigoted or ignorant to vote for Trump. I mean really.
So just ignore me when I bring up Hillary when questions are asked about Trump while y'all insult me, over and over again. Is what it is. Some of us were unhappy with Obama for 8 years, so now its time for someone else to be unhappy for a little while. That's the way it rolls.
But odds are Hillary will win, so you can be happy for another 8 years.
Truthfully, already I'm sick and tired of this election cycle and resigned to Hillary walking past the FBI and getting elected POTUS. All that is left in me is emptiness and despair at the entire system and learning to live the fact that all the things I was taught about life and this country was all wrong.
I don't recall questioning your character or intelligence. As far as I can tell, your preference for Trump is based at least partly on your personal experiences with illegal immigration. I think Bernie is also speaking to Americans' personal experiences with expensive health care and college education. My guess is that voters will support the candidate who talks about their problems directly.
I put the same questions to supporters of Trump and Sanders: how are your candidate's promises supposed to become law or policy? Given the realities of Washington, what are the chances that those promises become reality? How much are they really going to cost? Aren't you worried that your candidate can't or won't provide you with details of implementation that make sense?
Clinton's promises deserve the same scrutiny and skepticism. All three candidates are promising big changes to America. Responsible voters are going to demand all the details and assess whether a candidate is actually going to get anything done.
I dislike Trump because he promises the moon but can't explain how he's going to make his promises reality. Many of his promises don't work even as theory. Some of his ideas (like the ones on global warming) would get him a failing grade on a high school quiz on current events.
The main reason I dislike Trump is that he never stops bragging and insulting. Most of us have come across someone like that in our lives—mostly in junior high or high school—and we don't want to have anything to do with that person.
The Trump I see talks mostly about the Magnificence of Trump. Most politicians have healthy egos but are basically driven to help others. Trump just wants to glorify Trump.
I think maybe you need a break. You decide out of the blue to answer a post that was not even directed to you with a red herring, and then get all defensive when your attempt at misdirection is called out by buddy.
I don't apply the labels you mention to you or any other posters. I focus on the alleged qualifications of Trump, and on my opinion of the statements people make on his behalf. I try to avoid ad hominem attacks.
If you truly are sick of it all, why do you engage? And are you really entitled to play the martyr card? I can't speak for others, but myself, I still believe that we can have civil discourse on any topic. Perhaps there is a specific person here who has called you "stupid", "racist", "xenophobic", "homophobic", "bigoted", etc., and if so, they shouldn't (I think speech or behavior that has these characteristics, particularly that of a candidate for office, deserves to be called out). But painting everyone who disagrees with you with the same broad stereotype based on ad hominem attacks and labels that you're likely to see on 4chan is not going to gain you any sympathy from those you are trying to persuade.
So on top of everything else, you're calling him a big baby too?
The only other questions I see being asked in here are how can people be so stupid, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, chauvinistic, bigoted or ignorant to vote for Trump.
I'm one of two people here, and the only one who can vote on it that, openly supports Trump. How many times am I supposed to answer how can I be so stupid, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, chauvinistic, bigoted or ignorant to vote for Trump. I mean really.
So just ignore me when I bring up Hillary when questions are asked about Trump while y'all insult me, over and over again. Is what it is. Some of us were unhappy with Obama for 8 years, so now its time for someone else to be unhappy for a little while. That's the way it rolls.
But odds are Hillary will win, so you can be happy for another 8 years.
Truthfully, already I'm sick and tired of this election cycle and resigned to Hillary walking past the FBI and getting elected POTUS. All that is left in me is emptiness and despair at the entire system and learning to live the fact that all the things I was taught about life and this country was all wrong.
I think maybe you need a break. You decide out of the blue to answer a post that was not even directed to you with a red herring, and then get all defensive when your attempt at misdirection is called out by buddy.
I don't apply the labels you mention to you or any other posters. I focus on the alleged qualifications of Trump, and on my opinion of the statements people make on his behalf. I try to avoid ad hominem attacks.
If you truly are sick of it all, why do you engage? And are you really entitled to play the martyr card? I can't speak for others, but myself, I still believe that we can have civil discourse on any topic. Perhaps there is a specific person here who has called you "stupid", "racist", "xenophobic", "homophobic", "bigoted", etc., and if so, they shouldn't (I think speech or behavior that has these characteristics, particularly that of a candidate for office, deserves to be called out). But painting everyone who disagrees with you with the same broad stereotype based on ad hominem attacks and labels that you're likely to see on 4chan is not going to gain you any sympathy from those you are trying to persuade.
Location: Really deep in the heart of South California Gender:
Posted:
May 26, 2016 - 1:37pm
kcar wrote:
Or hey, you could vote the narcissistic blowhard douchebag and help drop the world's respect for us to an all-time low! It's the idiocratic thing to do!
Or hey, you could vote the narcissistic blowhard douchebag and help drop the world's respect for us to an all-time low! It's the idiocratic thing to do!
Not for nothing, but this a "Trump" thread, not a "Compare Trump to Clinton" thread. It's not really answering a question about Trump to revert the dialog to be about Clinton. There's a whole other thread about her. Just sayin'.
The only other questions I see being asked in here are how can people be so stupid, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, chauvinistic, bigoted or ignorant to vote for Trump.
I'm one of two people here, and the only one who can vote on it that, openly supports Trump. How many times am I supposed to answer how can I be so stupid, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, chauvinistic, bigoted or ignorant to vote for Trump. I mean really.
So just ignore me when I bring up Hillary when questions are asked about Trump while y'all insult me, over and over again. Is what it is. Some of us were unhappy with Obama for 8 years, so now its time for someone else to be unhappy for a little while. That's the way it rolls.
But odds are Hillary will win, so you can be happy for another 8 years.
Truthfully, already I'm sick and tired of this election cycle and resigned to Hillary walking past the FBI and getting elected POTUS. All that is left in me is emptiness and despair at the entire system and learning to live the fact that all the things I was taught about life and this country was all wrong.
So if his net worth is his primary qualification (according to him, since he boasts about what a successful business man he is almost as much as he tries to portray himself as a ladies' man) and he's been lying about it (his euphemism for his pathology is "truthful hyperbole"), that should not disqualify him?
Lies about military fundraisers, lies about wealth, lies about 9/11, lies about immigrants, ad nauseum.
The only unanswered question about his pathology is, does he believe the lies he tells about himself, i.e. is he cynical or deluded?
You mean like Hillary who insists that she had permission from State for her private server ?
Trump's net worth isn't relevant to his candidacy. The man is not fit or prepared to be President. We could argue all day about his temperament and character, but the guy hasn't prepared at all for the job. His knowledge base relevant to the job's demands is non-existent and he has a tiny circle of third- or fourth-rate advisors.
So if his net worth is his primary qualification (according to him, since he boasts about what a successful business man he is almost as much as he tries to portray himself as a ladies' man) and he's been lying about it (his euphemism for his pathology is "truthful hyperbole"), that should not disqualify him?
Lies about military fundraisers, lies about wealth, lies about 9/11, lies about immigrants, ad nauseum.
The only unanswered question about his pathology is, does he believe the lies he tells about himself, i.e. is he cynical or deluded?
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