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oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 12:49pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 oldviolin wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

Lolololololol

Biden's a jackass. 
We all know it. That hasn't stopped anyone else from running yet...

I  don't think he's a perv though...

JMHO
 
Sort of missing the point. But by all means, we should keep talking about the candidates we don't care about.

 
Scott I can assure that I wasn't laughing at your insinuation. You are a vested member of the struggle. 
I'm not sure I missed your point at all . You and I want to replace Trump and we don't care if they're somewhat flawed because we know they all will be so the thing is not to find a perfect human being or politician but the perfect candidate with the character to derail the colostomy express. It could be Biden. I don't know. I hope not. I can't see it.  I hope it won't be a circus. I'm sure everyone wants a best case scenario. Maybe we can learn the lesson of Trump. Now I've used his name as a cautionary tale. That's the trick  you know, to resolve our way to harmony

or maybe I did miss your point. I do feel a bit dense lately.

so many memes, so little time

now I'm channeling miamizsun

hey everybody needs to look up to somebody, right?

where is this going?

I'm sorry if I offended. 
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 12:25pm



 oldviolin wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

Lolololololol

Biden's a jackass. 
We all know it. That hasn't stopped anyone else from running yet...

I  don't think he's a perv though...

JMHO
 
Sort of missing the point. But by all means, we should keep talking about the candidates we don't care about.

sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 12:15pm

 RabbitEars wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:

I have rarely if ever seen them miss.  I am hardly politically correct, but in almost all of the public cases the men have been up to some shady stuff.  Like I have said before whether it is Kavanaugh, Biden or Trump I am almost always prone to believe the women for it is much rarer for them to be out and out lying over something like this. 
 
See who miss what? Not following that.... I usually believe women as well, as it takes a lot to step up and say something. But if we make it too easy to destroy people by an accusation, it will become more difficult to believe. Women are not immune from misusing power. 

FYI I did just watch a compilation called "Joe Being Creepy" or something like that. In every shot except one, the scene made me smile - I felt warmth. I did not see anything that by any stretch of imagination could be called "feeling up." But my feelings aren't what count - what I'm getting at is that interactions are personal. We all have our own body boundaries and what might be comfortable for one person might not be for another. We all have unique relationships, and unless we know what each person in each exchange is feeling, all we're doing is making judgments from our personal perspective, which generally contain a good deal of projection. And the MeToo movement has garnered the flavor of revengeful take-down, typical of the crappy emotional contagions that twitter fosters.  I'll also note that there are no shots of Biden touching men, which he seems to do equally (think pics of him w/Obama). So he's an extremely affectionate guy - I actually like that about him. But I understand why many don't - it's personal. 

What I'd say about Joe is that he's the kind of guy likely to violate someone's body boundaries, but beyond that requires the person being touched to weigh in. However, the younger the person, the more we can say a boundary violation is inappropriate. The interaction that makes me uncomfortable is in the collage in this thread - the middle shot on the right with the young girl. He's probably someone that doesn't easily read when he's being too much, but shaming is not a good way of going about learning those skills. We can't function well when we feel shame, no matter who we are. 

What I hope emerges from MeToo is more awareness of how we violate boundaries all the time (especially with babies - my god, very few people respect babies' boundaries), and an increased openness to finding where we are comfortable with each other. 

And, personal opinion, if Joe doesn't run, good. I've got my bias - I'd rather vote for someone younger than 60. 
 
I guess a good litmus test is that if you had a daughter and he was groping her like that to the point to where she was visibly uncomfortable, how would you see it?  Or would you behave that way yourself?   Biden is smart, imo I see someone getting away with as most feels as he can without it being definitely defined as groping.  I really don't see how anyone could see any different.  Perhaps it would help if you imagined Trump behaving the exact same way (not the actual feeling up of grown women by grabbing their private parts, there is no misconstruing that and there is nothing to discuss) perhaps you would see it for what it really is or not.  It does bother me that he could get away with that all of these years, just goes to show that although metoo has some possible side effects, it obviously needed to happen.   Bet Biden will be more careful this time around if he does run and stay in the public eye. 


RabbitEars

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Location: original states


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:50am



 sirdroseph wrote:

I have rarely if ever seen them miss.  I am hardly politically correct, but in almost all of the public cases the men have been up to some shady stuff.  Like I have said before whether it is Kavanaugh, Biden or Trump I am almost always prone to believe the women for it is much rarer for them to be out and out lying over something like this. 


 
See who miss what? Not following that.... I usually believe women as well, as it takes a lot to step up and say something. But if we make it too easy to destroy people by an accusation, it will become more difficult to believe. Women are not immune from misusing power. 

FYI I did just watch a compilation called "Joe Being Creepy" or something like that. In every shot except one, the scene made me smile - I felt warmth. I did not see anything that by any stretch of imagination could be called "feeling up." But my feelings aren't what count - what I'm getting at is that interactions are personal. We all have our own body boundaries and what might be comfortable for one person might not be for another. We all have unique relationships, and unless we know what each person in each exchange is feeling, all we're doing is making judgments from our personal perspective, which generally contain a good deal of projection. And the MeToo movement has garnered the flavor of revengeful take-down, typical of the crappy emotional contagions that twitter fosters.  I'll also note that there are no shots of Biden touching men, which he seems to do equally (think pics of him w/Obama). So he's an extremely affectionate guy - I actually like that about him. But I understand why many don't - it's personal. 

What I'd say about Joe is that he's the kind of guy likely to violate someone's body boundaries, but beyond that requires the person being touched to weigh in. However, the younger the person, the more we can say a boundary violation is inappropriate. The interaction that makes me uncomfortable is in the collage in this thread - the middle shot on the right with the young girl. He's probably someone that doesn't easily read when he's being too much, but shaming is not a good way of going about learning those skills. We can't function well when we feel shame, no matter who we are. 

What I hope emerges from MeToo is more awareness of how we violate boundaries all the time (especially with babies - my god, very few people respect babies' boundaries), and an increased openness to finding where we are comfortable with each other. 

And, personal opinion, if Joe doesn't run, good. I've got my bias - I'd rather vote for someone younger than 60. 

oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:45am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
 

Lolololololol

Biden's a jackass. 
We all know it. That hasn't stopped anyone else from running yet...

I  don't think he's a perv though...

JMHO
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:41am

Well, any way you look at it, we're talking about Joe Biden as opposed to learning about one of the less well known candidates. The 2020 election is going according to the script. I don't want to hear any whining when Trump wins a second term. 
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:37am



 sirdroseph wrote:

Yes there are, watch them or not doesn't matter to me.  He reserves most of the feeling up to little girls and teenagers but not exclusively.
 
I think you and I have different definitions of that term.  No matter.

sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:31am

General note:  Instead of thinking of the metoo movement as out of control, did you ever stop to think that maybe sexual assault and harassment on many different levels has ALWAYS been out of control and we are finally seeing these people outed?  Cause really that is what is happening.  I think that almost every single one of these men is guilty.
sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:27am

 Proclivities wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:

Go to youtube and watch all of the video compilations there are lots over the years; make your own decisions. You have always seemed to me to be an open minded person, I think you will have difficulty giving Uncle Joe a pass after seeing all of these instances.
 

I'm not looking to give him a pass, and that aspect of him often seemed creepy to me, but I doubt there are any videos of him "feeling up" a woman.  The term has a specific meaning (or at least used to).

 
Yes there are, watch them or not doesn't matter to me.  He reserves most of the feeling up to little girls and teenagers but not exclusively.
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:26am



 sirdroseph wrote:

Go to youtube and watch all of the video compilations there are lots over the years; make your own decisions. You have always seemed to me to be an open minded person, I think you will have difficulty giving Uncle Joe a pass after seeing all of these instances.


 

I'm not looking to give him a pass, and that aspect of him often seemed creepy to me, but I doubt there are any videos of him "feeling up" a woman.  The term has a specific meaning (or at least used to).
sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:17am

 RabbitEars wrote:
Not one of those women look uncomfortable with what's happening.

I say this as a life-long liberal and feminist: libs have become the puritans they so often rail against. We've already turned our eyes away from each other (towards our screens), which neurobiologically speaking is mentally and physically unhealthy. If we make everyone afraid to touch each other we will further erode the best things about what make us human.

MeToo is going to end up a disaster if it doesn't change tactics - belittling, shaming and attacking people is usually the least effective way to get them to change their behavior. 

 
I have rarely if ever seen them miss.  I am hardly politically correct, but in almost all of the public cases the men have been up to some shady stuff.  Like I have said before whether it is Kavanaugh, Biden or Trump I am almost always prone to believe the women for it is much rarer for them to be out and out lying over something like this. 


sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:14am

 Proclivities wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:
This has been an issue for awhile;  I addressed this in the unintentional irony thread.  There have been pictures and videos of him feeling up women and girls for years now.  I guess they are finally getting around to talking about this in the mainstream news.   He is done, he is welcome to continue to run and get operatives to make up things and say it is alright, but he is done.
 
"Feeling up" has an entirely different meaning than just unwanted/unwelcome/creepy touching/groping of arms, shoulders, back, etc.  It's actually what our current president bragged about doing on the Access Hollywood tape.
 
Go to youtube and watch all of the video compilations there are lots over the years; make your own decisions. You have always seemed to me to be an open minded person, I think you will have difficulty giving Uncle Joe a pass after seeing all of these instances.


RabbitEars

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Location: original states


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:03am

Not one of those women look uncomfortable with what's happening.

I say this as a life-long liberal and feminist: libs have become the puritans they so often rail against. We've already turned our eyes away from each other (towards our screens), which neurobiologically speaking is mentally and physically unhealthy. If we make everyone afraid to touch each other we will further erode the best things about what make us human.

MeToo is going to end up a disaster if it doesn't change tactics - belittling, shaming and attacking people is usually the least effective way to get them to change their behavior. 
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 11:01am



 sirdroseph wrote:
This has been an issue for awhile;  I addressed this in the unintentional irony thread.  There have been pictures and videos of him feeling up women and girls for years now.  I guess they are finally getting around to talking about this in the mainstream news.   He is done, he is welcome to continue to run and get operatives to make up things and say it is alright, but he is done.
 
"Feeling up" has an entirely different meaning than just unwanted/unwelcome/creepy touching/groping of arms, shoulders, back, etc.  It's actually what our current president bragged about doing on the Access Hollywood tape.  Still, Biden seems a little too "handsy" sometimes.

sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 10:44am

 miamizsun wrote:


is this a serious issue?

another silly meme?

or does he need a puppy?

 

This has been an issue for awhile;  I addressed this in the unintentional irony thread.  There have been pictures and videos of him feeling up women and girls for years now.  I guess they are finally getting around to talking about this in the mainstream news.   He is done, he is welcome to continue to run and get operatives to make up things and say it is alright, but he is done.


miamizsun

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Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2019 - 10:38am



is this a serious issue?

another silly meme?

or does he need a puppy?
edieraye

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Posted: Nov 7, 2008 - 4:20pm

Joe the Veep - Mr. October delivers.


rexi

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Location: Zurich, Switzerland


Posted: Oct 28, 2008 - 5:54am

 mjv1208 wrote:
I meant to add state his case without getting all angry about it. He definitely was getting angry by the last question and said something about "who wrote these questions". I think Obama might of? handled those questions better. Biden is a terrible speaker. After all these years you would think he would of? worked on improving these skills. It would be great for SNL if there was a Biden/Palin ticket. Think of all the laughs they could get out of that one.  {#Mrgreen}

 mjv1208 wrote:
I found it disappointing that Biden finally had a somewhat hard interview (not the typical softball questions) and he didn't handle it well. And then for the Obama/Biden ticket to cancel all interviews with that station until the election was really being a poor sport. The Obama/Biden ticket has received mostly a free pass from the mainstream media. If they are going to hold office they are definitely going to be under more scrutiny after the election and they will have to answer questions they don't like. They are promising a lot and the economic situation is not going to change over night. He seemed to be in shock to finally have someone give him some tough questions for a change. Someone with all of his experience should of been able to capitalize on it and state his case.
 

 
It's have, not of! Engrish, anybody?
(former member)

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Posted: Oct 27, 2008 - 9:05am

 mjv1208 wrote:
I meant to add state his case without getting all angry about it. He definitely was getting angry by the last question and said something about "who wrote these questions". I think Obama might of handled those questions better. Biden is a terrible speaker. After all these years you think he would of worked on improving these skills. It would be great for SNL if there was a Biden/Palin ticket. Think of all the laughs they could get out of that one.  {#Mrgreen}

 
mjv1208 wrote:
I found it disappointing that Biden finally had a somewhat hard interview (not the typical softball questions) and he didn't handle it well. And then for the Obama/Biden ticket to cancel all interviews with that station until the election was really being a poor sport. The Obama/Biden ticket has received mostly a free pass from the mainstream media. If they are going to hold office they are definitely going to be under more scrutiny after the election and they will have to answer questions they don't like. They are promising a lot and the economic situation is not going to change over night. He seemed to be in shock to finally have someone give him some tough questions for a change. Someone with all of his experience should of been able to capitalize on it and state his case.

 
 
I thought he handled the interview very well. The questions were baiting and ridiculous. Obama is not a Socialist nor a Marxist and the questions have nothing to do with critical issues faced by the voting public.

I thought Biden was quite soft-spoken in his surprise at what the interviewer was setting up. Hard to see that as anger. Biden's not just another talking head on Fox or MSNBC, he's a senior US senator and has the right to react when somebody tries to set him up in such an obvious and partisan way.

Rose said it better than I can.


dionysius

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Posted: Oct 27, 2008 - 8:28am

 rosedraws wrote:

Those were not tough questions, those were ridiculous accusations that only fuel the distortion and smearing. 

This would be a tough question: "How will you keep Social Security solvent?" 

This is a stupid question: "Won't an Obama administration bring Marxism to the White House?" 

The person asking the questions was giving the ridiculous smears the same import that she should have given to genuine issues. She was embarrassing. Her goal was to perpetuate the distortion, not enlighten.  Biden gave an excellent answer to the "Spread the Wealth" question (letting the Middle class keep more of their income is NOT spreading the wealth.  Having the very wealthy pay a larger portion into the system (like they used to do) is appropriate.  Duh!) 

siderant... So many McCain supporters don't realize what they're cheering him on to do... he will continue making life too hard for the middle class so that the upper class can continue their lifestyle of excess and material gluttony.  Does anyone believe, after what we've seen since the start of these stupid Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, that ANY wealthy person is putting their money into JOBS?!?  Growing American businesses??  nope.  Trickle down economics has proven itself a failure.
/siderant

I agree that Biden is a lousy speaker.  It's the biggest reason he didn't get farther in the primary.  He was in hostile territory in this interview.  It was gracious of him to agree to meet with the news organization.  He wasn't very gracious in his response, but I don't see how anyone could be.  But he did state his case well, and didn't lose his cool.
 

Perfect. And, hey, Rose!
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