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R_P

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 8:11pm

 kurtster wrote:
Agent Orange wrote: 
Fail ...
 
In line with your "logic" it follows that someone who posts racist and xenophobic crap is in no position to call anyone a racist.
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 7:52pm

Agent Orange wrote: 
Fail ...
R_P

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 7:33pm

 kurtster wrote:
You want to hold the sins of my fathers' against me ?  Well that's a two way street, Bubba ...

Muh Heritage!
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 7:24pm

Agent Orange wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
More lies and distractions.

 
You want to hold the sins of my fathers' against me ?  Well that's a two way street, Bubba ...
R_P

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 7:08pm

 kurtster wrote:
More lies and distractions.


kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 6:55pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
It's about $$$.  Follow the money ... Therein lies the motives of both of the parties you cite above.
 
Of course, there's always some baser nefarious intent to be found in those parties. There's a sudden onset of profound blindness when it's much, much closer to home.

Everything can be made "to be about money" with a bit of gymnastics. Including you arguing in this particular topic. Not really an argument, though. A distraction. On top of a distraction.
 
I find it quite paradoxical that you are defending a well known racist who helped to divide my country at a very critical point in our history.  It is your ancestors that played a major part in establishing slavery here and in many other parts of the world while hypocritically outlawing it in your homeland at the same time.

And ignoring the main point.

 kurtster wrote:
Racism is big business.  Solve it and all that money goes away..
 
But then again you are part of the: keep racism alive industry©.  Keep the parties fighting amongst themselves by stirring the pot so that nothing gets settled and the parties who benefit from the unrest keep getting the money to solve a problem that you try to keep alive so that the money to solve it keeps on comin' in.  A vicious cycle, but that is how it works and why it is not in the stakeholders interest to solve it and keep it going instead.
That is the job description of an Agent Provocateur after all.  Maybe I should start calling you Agent Orange.  {#Bounce}

Funny, it does kinda match the hue of your avatar as of late. {#Roflol}
R_P

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 5:10pm

 kurtster wrote:
It's about $$$.  Follow the money ... Therein lies the motives of both of the parties you cite above.
 
Of course, there's always some baser nefarious intent to be found in those parties. There's a sudden onset of profound blindness when it's much, much closer to home.

Everything can be made "to be about money" with a bit of gymnastics. Including you arguing in this particular topic. Not really an argument, though. A distraction. On top of a distraction.
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 4:59pm

 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

The man deserves no statues in public places or buildings named after him, at the very least.
 
I'm good with that

 
Thank you.  That is my point.
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 4:58pm

 R_P wrote:


To show who's really lying (again):
For the 2003–2004 session, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)rated Byrd's voting record as being 100% in line with the NAACP's position on the thirty-three Senate bills they evaluated. Sixteen other senators received that rating. In June 2005, Byrd proposed an additional $10,000,000 in federal funding for the Martin Luther King Jr. National Memorial in Washington, D.C., remarking that, "With the passage of time, we have come to learn that his Dream was the American Dream, and few ever expressed it more eloquently." Upon news of his death, the NAACP released a statement praising Byrd, saying that he "became a champion for civil rights and liberties" and "came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda".
Change your spots...
 
It's about $$$.  Follow the money ... Therein lies the motives of both of the parties you cite above.

Racism is big business.  Solve it and all that money goes away.
haresfur

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 4:28pm



 kurtster wrote:

The man deserves no statues in public places or buildings named after him, at the very least.
 
I'm good with that

R_P

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 4:24pm

 kurtster wrote:
Everything he did as an elected official contradicts what he claims to have been a change of heart much earlier in his life. He was a lying SOS. He did not change his spots.

That's some pretty selective (a.k.a. cherry-picked) copy-pasta, son.

To show who's really lying (again):
For the 2003–2004 session, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)<85> rated Byrd's voting record as being 100% in line with the NAACP's position on the thirty-three Senate bills they evaluated. Sixteen other senators received that rating. In June 2005, Byrd proposed an additional $10,000,000 in federal funding for the Martin Luther King Jr. National Memorial in Washington, D.C., remarking that, "With the passage of time, we have come to learn that his Dream was the American Dream, and few ever expressed it more eloquently."<86> Upon news of his death, the NAACP released a statement praising Byrd, saying that he "became a champion for civil rights and liberties" and "came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda".<87>
Change your spots...
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 4:07pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Why does he get a pass and others do not, especially in light of what is going on today ?

Possibly because he wasn't the usual unrepentant, denying kind of bigot...
 
" ... I can't erase what happened."

He spent a decade, at least, in the Klan ... and had some pretty deep seated thoughts on racism ...

Byrd became a recruiter and leader of his chapter.[12] When it came time to elect the top officer (Exalted Cyclops) in the local Klan unit, Byrd won unanimously.[12]

In December 1944, Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore G. Bilbo:

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

— Robert C. Byrd, in a letter to Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D-MS), 1944[12][20]

Who knows how many of his recruits and those he influenced as a leader he inspired to go on the further their racism on to successive generations, regardless of his later "repentance" ?

The man was a politician.  He ran for office as a member of the Klan.  Only when seeking national office did he have an awakening of some kind and decided to say that he was changing his spots.

In 2005, Byrd told The Washington Post that his membership in the Baptist church led to a change in his views. In the opinion of one reviewer, Byrd, like other Southern and border-state Democrats, came to realize that he would have to temper "his blatantly segregationist views" and move to the Democratic Party mainstream if he wanted to play a role nationally.[12]

Not good enough.  He led the filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and voted Nay on the final vote.

The clocked ticked away on the cloture motion as the Senate addressed Hickenlooper’s package of amendments. With voting complete (one amendment passed, two failed), another obstacle to cloture was gone. All that remained was the filibuster. At 7:38 p.m. on June 9, Senator Robert C. Byrd took the floor. He had in his hand an 800-page speech laying out all the reasons why the Senate should not invoke cloture. For 14 hours and 13 minutes, Byrd dissected the bill, laying out his arguments against passage. Reporters called it the “last gasp” of the filibuster.

Everything he did  as an elected official contradicts what he claims to have been a change of heart much earlier in his life.  He was a lying SOS.  He did not change his spots.

It is what he did that matters.  The man deserves no statues in public places or buildings named after him, at the very least.

Obviously, I alone here (in terms of the regular posters in the poly threads) have these thoughts, except for one other ...

R_P

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 1:30pm

 kurtster wrote:
Why does he get a pass and others do not, especially in light of what is going on today ?

Possibly because he wasn't the usual unrepentant, denying kind of bigot...
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 12:54pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
No.  

What say you ?

Every individual is responsible for his/her actions only. Robert Byrd died ten years ago this very day. His crimes died with him.

You bring him up as a distraction, a handful of dust thrown into the air, a quick whataboutist maneuver to distract from a losing argument.

Nice try. Go lose your argument.
 
Wrong, absolutely wrong.  He was a high ranking official in the KKK.  He needs to be cancelled like all the other racists are.  His statues must come down and his name must come off of buildings.  Why does he get a pass and others do not, especially in light of what is going on today ?

And then explain why you tried to tie him into reparations ?  That has nothing to do with anything I am addressing.

Woodrow Wilson is so much dust in the past, right ?  Yet he is getting his just due, finally.  I don't see how you can give Byrd a pass in light of all of this.
Lazy8

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 12:39pm

kurtster wrote:
No.  

What say you ?

Every individual is responsible for his/her actions only. Robert Byrd died ten years ago this very day. His crimes died with him.

You bring him up as a distraction, a handful of dust thrown into the air, a quick whataboutist maneuver to distract from a losing argument.

Nice try. Go lose your argument.
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 10:06am

 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
What do you say about Robert Byrd ?

Do modern Democrats owe reparations for him?

Think long and hard about your answer.
 
No.  

What say you ?
Lazy8

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Posted: Jun 28, 2020 - 7:45am

kurtster wrote:
What do you say about Robert Byrd ?

Do modern Democrats owe reparations for him?

Think long and hard about your answer.
haresfur

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Posted: Jun 27, 2020 - 9:48pm



 kurtster wrote:

What do you say about Robert Byrd ?
 
recognize the past and vow not to repeat it

kurtster

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Posted: Jun 27, 2020 - 6:49pm

 buddy wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

But it is relevant, given how we are reviewing our past one more time, tearing down icons of know racists and what not.  Hillary even said that he was her mentor at his funeral.  So he was considered a "good democrat" by many democratic leaders.  Yet he was also a leader in the KKK.  How do you square that given what is going on today ?

I think it is a fair and honest question, in light of the present.
 
Okay, then try this - I’m not interested in having any kind of dialog with you.

 
Then why did you reply earlier regarding Wallace ?

No need to reply.  It was rhetorical ... just a marker.
kurtster

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Posted: Jun 27, 2020 - 6:41pm

 buddy wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

What do you say about Robert Byrd ?
 

I’m not the least bit interested in wandering off into some non sequitur dialog with you.
 
But it is relevant, given how we are reviewing our past one more time, tearing down icons of know racists and what not.  Hillary even said that he was her mentor at his funeral.  So he was considered a "good democrat" by many democratic leaders.  His name is plastered all over schools and other public buildings.  Yet he was also a leader in the KKK.  How do you square that given what is going on today ?

I think it is a fair and honest question, in light of the present.
.

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