Thanks for thisâeither I'd forgotten or never knew.
But you then have to ask: why have the debate at all if the only fact-checking occurs after the debate when most people have tuned out? A debate without fact-checking or consequences for lying turns into garbage attempts at shocking and smearing people. It's all spectacle and no substanceâgreat for Trump because that pretty much defines him but horrible for the country's attempt to choose a leader.
Maybe it's possible to Gish-gallop Trump more than he does it to his opponent. But at that point, we're pretty damn near complete Idiocracy.
Itâs a good test to see how someone like Biden can stand up against a bullying lying opponent. Apparently, not very well. And thereâs no way weâre going to assume that leaders of other countries are going to kowtow to him so it is, as we feared, a set up for failure in negotiation. Even though he might have âa cold.â
I just sent an email to President Biden, thanking him for his service to this nation.
That's very kind of you, Antigone. I was just reading in the newspaper today that Joe felt under-appreciated and patronized by people in his own party. His decision has to be a bitter pill for him to swallow.
They were moderators, not fact-checkers. They said that they would intentionally not be doing the latter role. From Politifact: "The network said before the June 27 debate that the moderators would not challenge the candidates over their accuracy."
So that's frustrating, but it's how they played that particular debate and not a failure on their part.
Thanks for this—either I'd forgotten or never knew.
But you then have to ask: why have the debate at all if the only fact-checking occurs after the debate when most people have tuned out? A debate without fact-checking or consequences for lying turns into garbage attempts at shocking and smearing people. It's all spectacle and no substance—great for Trump because that pretty much defines him but horrible for the country's attempt to choose a leader.
Maybe it's possible to Gish-gallop Trump more than he does it to his opponent. But at that point, we're pretty damn near complete Idiocracy.
It worked brilliantly for Trump, partly because Jake Tapper and Dana Bash forgot they were journalists and fact-checkers. Biden was awful but Tapper and Bash were useless.
They were moderators, not fact-checkers. They said that they would intentionally not be doing the latter role. From Politifact: "The network said before the June 27 debate that the moderators would not challenge the candidates over their accuracy."
So that's frustrating, but it's how they played that particular debate and not a failure on their part.
And, without stretching, you can easily imagine Harris doing just that - especially when she gets to debate him. Unless heâs too chicken to debate a woman of color for fear of LOSING.
What Trump did in his last debate with Biden is apparently known as the Gish Gallop.
During a Gish gallop, in a short space of time the galloper confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies that makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of the debate.<2> Each point raised by the Gish galloper takes considerably more time to refute or to fact-check than the amount of time taken to state each one in the series. This technique is known online as Brandolini's law<3> and frequently is referred to as "the bullshit asymmetry principle". That element of the technique also is referred to as spewing a firehose of falsehoods.
The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved or, if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics.<4>
It worked brilliantly for Trump, partly because Jake Tapper and Dana Bash forgot they were journalists and fact-checkers. Biden was awful but Tapper and Bash were useless.
People have let Trump get away with lying, exaggerating and evading for far too long. Voters expect him to lie. Journalists didn't bother to fact-check Trump that much even AFTER the debate.
At this point, debating Trump is pointless. A debate for him is just another chance to spew lies. He faces no consequences for lying. You cannot have a reasoned or intelligent conversation with him.
Trump has spent much of his adult life (and all of his political life) breaking rules and lying without facing consequences for it. He's not going to stop—he can't stop and it works for him. You're not going to get the truth from Trump during a debate, you're just going to get a slightly more polished version of an Alex Jones rant.
Whoever gets the nomination should hammer Trump on Project 2025 and Agenda 47 esp. on goals like these:
Cut Medicare and Social Security
Tax cuts that favor the rich
Outlaw all abortion
End no-fault divorce
A women's place is at home
The GOP wants to control women and steal more money for the rich. They're being incredibly blatant and arrogant about it now.
Remind people of the all the death, illnesses and shortages from Covid during Trump. Keep showing them his attempts to ignore Covid, suppress reporting of it, and wish it majickly away.
Point out that Trump is a felon and a rapist and suspected pedophile. Lay out the FACTS as to why he's facing trials for criminal acts including a failed attempt to overthrow democracy.
Point out that under Trump, there was more crime than under Biden. Point out that Biden and GOP Senators worked out a plan to secure the border and process immigrants but Trump blocked it without any clear or workable plan of his own.
Get people to ignore Trump's stunts and claims and help them focus on his awful failures. Depict him as a mascara- and diaper-wearing buffoon. (When you wear as much "bronzer" as Trump does, that's makeup).
Trump is one sick f&*k. There is nothing decent or redeemable about him.
And, without stretching, you can easily imagine Harris doing just that - especially when she gets to debate him. Unless heâs too chicken to debate a woman of color for fear of LOSING.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Jul 21, 2024 - 12:52pm
NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Daddy, who is that weird old man ranting away in the corner?
What is he talking about?
Well, son, he recently suffered a traumatic incident in which he almost died. He was even talking about being a changed man who wanted to bring civility and unity to our nation. He has recovered from that and is regaining his footing.
He wants to be the President for everyone.
He literally can't get out of his own way.
Whoever gets the nomination should hammer Trump on Project 2025 and Agenda 47 esp. on goals like these:
Cut Medicare and Social Security
Tax cuts that favor the rich
Outlaw all abortion
End no-fault divorce
A women's place is at home
The GOP wants to control women and steal more money for the rich. They're being incredibly blatant and arrogant about it now.
Remind people of the all the death, illnesses and shortages from Covid during Trump. Keep showing them his attempts to ignore Covid, suppress reporting of it, and wish it majickly away.
Point out that Trump is a felon and a rapist and suspected pedophile. Lay out the FACTS as to why he's facing trials for criminal acts including a failed attempt to overthrow democracy.
Point out that under Trump, there was more crime than under Biden. Point out that Biden and GOP Senators worked out a plan to secure the border and process immigrants but Trump blocked it without any clear or workable plan of his own.
Get people to ignore Trump's stunts and claims and help them focus on his awful failures. Depict him as a mascara- and diaper-wearing buffoon. (When you wear as much "bronzer" as Trump does, that's makeup).
Trump is one sick f&*k. There is nothing decent or redeemable about him.
two-thirds of democrats wanted him to step aside. The facts for most who voted changed when they saw the debate. It's pro-democracy...not anti-democracy.
I'm just anticipating the FOXNews spin, which is already starting to say this: "oh, so now the smoke filled room picks the President and not The People!?!"
Hey, if it were like that, then there's no problem if we eliminate the Electoral College.
I expect the usual âoh but itâs not what the people chose when they did primariesâ but those sorts of folks ought to be open to eliminating the electoral college in favor of popular vote, no?
two-thirds of democrats wanted him to step aside. The facts for most who voted changed when they saw the debate. It's pro-democracy...not anti-democracy.
I expect the usual âoh but itâs not what the people chose when they did primariesâ but those sorts of folks ought to be open to eliminating the electoral college in favor of popular vote, no?
