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KUDOS for BillG - miamizsun - Oct 28, 2021 - 5:00am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - Coaxial - Oct 28, 2021 - 4:57am
 
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Joe Biden - miamizsun - Oct 28, 2021 - 4:51am
 
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RightWingNutZ - islander - Oct 27, 2021 - 8:20pm
 
What Did You Do Today? - Antigone - Oct 27, 2021 - 6:50pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - GeneP59 - Oct 27, 2021 - 5:47pm
 
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Looting & vandalism isn't protest - R_P - Oct 27, 2021 - 4:16pm
 
Name My Band - Red_Dragon - Oct 27, 2021 - 3:57pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 27, 2021 - 3:52pm
 
Oops! - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 27, 2021 - 3:31pm
 
China - R_P - Oct 27, 2021 - 3:13pm
 
Oh GOD, they're GAY! - haresfur - Oct 27, 2021 - 2:27pm
 
What the hell OV? - miamizsun - Oct 27, 2021 - 2:09pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Oct 27, 2021 - 12:51pm
 
Britain - westslope - Oct 27, 2021 - 11:45am
 
Climate Chaos - westslope - Oct 27, 2021 - 10:37am
 
Trump - westslope - Oct 27, 2021 - 10:20am
 
Fake News*  ?  ! - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Oct 27, 2021 - 10:18am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Oct 27, 2021 - 9:59am
 
2020 Elections - Red_Dragon - Oct 27, 2021 - 7:19am
 
The Obituary Page - kurtster - Oct 27, 2021 - 6:57am
 
What is the meaning of this? - kurtster - Oct 27, 2021 - 6:51am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Oct 27, 2021 - 6:43am
 
Into the Future - oldviolin - Oct 27, 2021 - 6:34am
 
North Korea - miamizsun - Oct 27, 2021 - 4:59am
 
Bob Dylan - miamizsun - Oct 27, 2021 - 4:51am
 
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Museum Of Bad Album Covers - yuel - Oct 27, 2021 - 2:11am
 
Live Music - R_P - Oct 27, 2021 - 12:11am
 
Facebook Tips - steeler - Oct 26, 2021 - 5:53pm
 
History - lather, rinse, repeat. - haresfur - Oct 26, 2021 - 2:58pm
 
♥ ♥ ♥ Vote For Pie ♥ ♥ ♥ - miamizsun - Oct 26, 2021 - 2:30pm
 
Best Song Comments. - kcar - Oct 26, 2021 - 1:26pm
 
BillyGee's Greatest Segues - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 26, 2021 - 11:02am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 26, 2021 - 6:38am
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Oct 26, 2021 - 6:20am
 
Cool concerts?? - Steely_D - Oct 25, 2021 - 9:36pm
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2021 - 6:44pm
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2021 - 4:01pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - steeler - Oct 25, 2021 - 2:40pm
 
New Music - Proclivities - Oct 25, 2021 - 12:28pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - Red_Dragon - Oct 25, 2021 - 12:18pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - black321 - Oct 25, 2021 - 9:01am
 
Phine Phound Photographs - Proclivities - Oct 25, 2021 - 8:38am
 
World Music - Ohmsen - Oct 25, 2021 - 8:29am
 
Philly - rgio - Oct 24, 2021 - 5:38pm
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - rhahl - Oct 24, 2021 - 7:45am
 
Jazz - rhahl - Oct 24, 2021 - 7:42am
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - Antigone - Oct 24, 2021 - 5:17am
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - Steely_D - Oct 23, 2021 - 8:04pm
 
• • •  BACON • • •  - Red_Dragon - Oct 23, 2021 - 3:10pm
 
Floyd forum - Coaxial - Oct 22, 2021 - 6:25pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Oct 22, 2021 - 4:09pm
 
Apps turning itself on at night!night! - jarro - Oct 22, 2021 - 3:56pm
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - kcar - Oct 22, 2021 - 2:49pm
 
Art Show - Antigone - Oct 22, 2021 - 1:48pm
 
Automotive Lust - haresfur - Oct 22, 2021 - 1:34pm
 
Shipping News - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 22, 2021 - 12:11pm
 
curiosity... - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 22, 2021 - 9:37am
 
the Todd Rundgren topic - Steely_D - Oct 22, 2021 - 9:26am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - GeneP59 - Oct 21, 2021 - 6:49pm
 
Living in America - Red_Dragon - Oct 21, 2021 - 6:16pm
 
Emoticons - R_P - Oct 21, 2021 - 1:52pm
 
Democratic Party - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Oct 21, 2021 - 12:47pm
 
your music - pkoetsier5 - Oct 21, 2021 - 11:56am
 
Those Lovable Policemen - Ohmsen - Oct 21, 2021 - 10:19am
 
Get the Quote - Ohmsen - Oct 21, 2021 - 9:09am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - miamizsun - Oct 21, 2021 - 8:39am
 
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islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 9:41pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

I've had this discussion around here before...  Now if anybody here is up on the cars that are on the road today... you would know how much more efficient they are compared to cars that were on the road 20-30 years ago.
I realize that they still not a efficient as some say they should be. But it's really hard to beat today's latest creation of an internal combustion engine.
Let me give you an example. My truck will be 47 years old this December. It's a 1974 model. It's allowed 850 ppm of hydrocarbons at idle. My wife's Dodge Durango is required to put out no more than 16 ppm at idle.
I've modified my truck heavily in these last 47 years. In fact, it puts out almost four times the horsepower over the stock engine it came with... and it gets better mileage... with less pollutants than required by the State of California.
I remember growing up in Orange County California in the early- mid 60's. I walked to school. On foggy mornings when the dew was falling, it would burn your eyes because of the pollutants in the air. Your lungs would hurt by the time for the walk home. And your eyes would burn because the smog was so bad.
That doesn't happen anymore... and there's way more cars on the road.
What should Biden do?
Let the free market dictate the tech to make electric cars work. It will happen. You can't force stuff like that on people.
Eventually the tech will catch up. Subsidizing the industry/ welfare just causes more corruption. There's all kinds of examples of that going on. And it allows lazy people to continue to sponge off of the ones who work hard for a living.
Like I've said many times before... I'm all for helping people who need a hand... there's plenty of them around. But I'm VERY prejudiced against lazy losers.

Sorry for the rambling... it's past my bedtime.
And I need to get up at 4:30.








I'm with you on some of the other stuff on fuel costs and supporting the wrong people. But here I can't help but say WHAT?  CAFE standards were HUGE in improving the efficiency of cars. And remember when we had 49 state cars and California cars? That was in response to California emissions regulations, but the market and economics spoke and now car makers make nearly everything to California's standards.  The free market was leading us to worse outcomes (because they were cheaper), but government regulations resulted in more efficient cars and eventually the automakers caught up and managed to make good(sometimes) cars that also met environmental (and safety) standards.   And oil/fossil fuels have been subsidized for decades (and they continue to be), I'm not really for electrical subsidies per se, but saying our energy market is 'free' is laughable. 

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 8:49pm

 westslope wrote:
+1

HIV/AIDS.    I went to wiki to look for a number.  An estimated 20.6 million had died from the condition between the early 1980s and 2020.   Source.

Wiki also reminded me that the Roman Catholic Church opposed the use of condoms.     



And every generation throws a hero up the pop charts. Here's someone to know from that generation:
The Dr. Fauci of the HIV period was a guy who looked remarkably (to me) like Brando - Dr. Paul Volberding of USCF. You'll see his face appear ever so briefly when they do a montage of how UCSF is working on the COVID thing. He really deserves more than that. I wouldn't say "hero" but he was damned important in getting things to happen. He was brand new at the job (oncology) when someone told him he should check out this 22 yr old man with Kaposi's sarcoma - something extremely rare/weird. Of course, he didn't realize that he was looking at AIDS. And from there, an uphill battle.

If you've never seen/read "And the Band Played On" then you must. It amazing, heartbreaking, and prophetic. And familiar, if you've been following COVID.
These folks all searching for the common thread, the nature of the infection. It takes time and mistakes get made, even with the brightest at work. It really pisses me off something bad when laypeople start in with the "and look at all the mistakes the idiots at the CDC make!" They really have no clue, and should basically shut up.





westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 8:32pm

 R_P wrote:

Anything, dead or alive, but Trump...


A dead parrot could do a better job.....

The problem might be viewing politics as a zero-sum, winner-takes-all game in the first place. 

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 8:15pm

 Manbird wrote:
invalid question because "100%"

Invalid question because not a question.

Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 8:03pm

 R_P wrote:

Anything, dead or alive, but Trump...



invalid question because "100%"

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 8:00pm

 kurtster wrote:
And lastly, the silence regarding Biden. Inexcusable when compared to the scrutiny given Trump. Or all I can conclude otherwise is that everyone here who voted for Biden is 100% satisfied with their vote and how he is doing his job. If that is the case, own it and state your support of Biden. I did so of Trump openly and took all of the slings and arrows that went with it.

Anything, dead or alive, but Trump...
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 7:49pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
 haresfur wrote:

Don't you think the rise in prices is primarily due to people driving more after covid hunkering down? And I'm a bit confused because you seem to be saying Biden is responsible for increasing fuel prices but your previous post seemed like it was criticising him for trying to keep prices down by importing more. What should he be doing?
Sorry I didn't respond to the comments sooner.
I've been really busy with work, and my time here comes third or forth in my priorities.
And I don't like hanging out in these type of forums because my opinion is a major minority. I much prefer the music or mechanical side of discussions.
Besides... I'll never get most of you to even consider what I think is relative. Even though I always give most people the "benefit of doubt" and listen with an open mind.
That being stated... I can't believe the silence when it comes from the stupidity being put out there in this political climate. When Trump was spewing his stupidity...  there were all kinds of bellowing going on everywhere. And rightly so. But now when the stupidity spews from this administration, there's nothing but excuses.  
Gas prices... They effect all people who work for a living. Where I live, the Hispanic population is heavily involved in the service industry. Whether it be hotel/ condo/ private homes/ pool service/ yard maintenance/ construction/ etc. etc. I would be included in that category. And I'm now a minority in that field. When the price of fuel goes up... I raise my prices accordingly. I will lose some jobs because I compete against some really cheap competition. Thankfully, I have somewhat of a reputation of showing up, being on time and am very quick and clean with what I do. So, most people know my work, and will use me because I can do a job in less than 7/8 the time. And do it right the first time. Unlike some other guys running around.
Those other guys will struggle big time when fuel goes up. And lose money. Not very helpful to a group of people this administration courts for votes.
And what, for an example, are those gardeners going to do when they can't get gas powered lawn mowers/ edgers/ blowers/ etc. to do their work??


Yes, I feel the policies of this administration have affected the prices of everything. When fuel prices go up... so does parcel delivery, food and every type of supply item out there.
It's a well known fact... they want to outlaw gas burning anything. And push the electric vehicle format. One of the ways that happens... tax the living snot out of fuel. It happens continuously here in California. I can see it. And they say it.
This administration says they want to eliminate the production of fossil fuels. Yes? So that's their goal. And it's happening because Biden is courting Saudi Arabia for fuel we still need. Not for keeping cost down.
I've had this discussion around here before...  Now if anybody here is up on the cars that are on the road today... you would know how much more efficient they are compared to cars that were on the road 20-30 years ago.
I realize that they still not a efficient as some say they should be. But it's really hard to beat today's latest creation of an internal combustion engine.
Let me give you an example. My truck will be 47 years old this December. It's a 1974 model. It's allowed 850 ppm of hydrocarbons at idle. My wife's Dodge Durango is required to put out no more than 16 ppm at idle.
I've modified my truck heavily in these last 47 years. In fact, it puts out almost four times the horsepower over the stock engine it came with... and it gets better mileage... with less pollutants than required by the State of California.

I remember growing up in Orange County California in the early- mid 60's. I walked to school. On foggy mornings when the dew was falling, it would burn your eyes because of the pollutants in the air. Your lungs would hurt by the time for the walk home. And your eyes would burn because the smog was so bad.
That doesn't happen anymore... and there's way more cars on the road.

What should Biden do?
Let the free market dictate the tech to make electric cars work. It will happen. You can't force stuff like that on people.
Eventually the tech will catch up. Subsidizing the industry/ welfare just causes more corruption. There's all kinds of examples of that going on. And it allows lazy people to continue to sponge off of the ones who work hard for a living.
Like I've said many times before... I'm all for helping people who need a hand... there's plenty of them around. But I'm VERY prejudiced against lazy losers. Sorry for the rambling... it's past my bedtime. And I need to get up at 4:30.
 
+1000

On the second bolded.  We both experienced this same childhood at the same time in Orange County and every single word you said is true.  Living directly on the coast with an unobstructed view of Santa Catalina Island, I have memories of when the Santana winds blew all the smog out the San Fernando Valley where it settled on the island and the smog was so thick it looked like the rings of Saturn surrounding the island.  Only these rings were brownish orange.  And then when the winds shifted back out of the west, all that smog blew back directly onshore into Orange County.  You really could not go outside when the winds shifted back onshore.  A side bar regarding the recent oil spill offshore.  Nothing new.  Tar balls were common at Huntington and farther south.  We had to scrape our feet and use gasoline or kerosene to get the tar off of our boards at the end of the day.  Now a week later, Huntington is open again and life is moving back to normal.  The ocean is a very dynamic organism.  The oil is actually food for certain marine organisms.  And if we had some more people working the docks, unloading the cargo ships and driving the trucks to move the containers inland, we would not have ships parked in strange and unusual places waiting to be offloaded where their presence could damage our infrastructure such as this pipeline with is located on charts.

On the first bolded.  My thoughts exactly over the past day or so after you brought up the electric lawnmower mandate.  Down to the effects on the Hispanic community that is very heavily involved in that sector.  I'll add to this by saying how can a state make itself more dependent on electricity when the power is cut off every time the wind blows so as not to start fires ?  And this power line / fire circle has been going on in the state for over 100 years and P,G & E still hasn't solved the problem. The first fire of this sort on record was in Berkeley and I have told of it at least a couple of times here in the past.  In fact it is getting worse not better.  And how is the bulk of electricity generated ?  With petroleum fuels of course.  How are you going to charge the batteries of your Tesla, let alone your lawnmowers when it's windy ?  You can have all the windmills and solar panels you want, but when the transmission lines are shut off because of wind, it doesn't matter how you generate the electricity.

And lastly, the silence regarding Biden.  Inexcusable when compared to the scrutiny given Trump.  Or all I can conclude otherwise is that everyone here who voted for Biden is 100% satisfied with their vote and how he is doing his job.  If that is the case, own it and state your support of Biden.  I did so of Trump openly and took all of the slings and arrows that went with it.  And still do because you all are still shooting them.

Either state your approval or displeasure of Biden and take what comes with it.   How or what did someone say about the complicity and cowardice of silence ?
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 6:40pm

 haresfur wrote:

Don't you think the rise in prices is primarily due to people driving more after covid hunkering down? And I'm a bit confused because you seem to be saying Biden is responsible for increasing fuel prices but your previous post seemed like it was criticising him for trying to keep prices down by importing more. What should he be doing?

Sorry I didn't respond to the comments sooner.
I've been really busy with work, and my time here comes third or forth in my priorities.
And I don't like hanging out in these type of forums because my opinion is a major minority. I much prefer the music or mechanical side of discussions.
Besides... I'll never get most of you to even consider what I think is relative. Even though I always give most people the "benefit of doubt" and listen with an open mind.
That being stated... I can't believe the silence when it comes from the stupidity being put out there in this political climate. When Trump was spewing his stupidity...  there were all kinds of bellowing going on everywhere. And rightly so. But now when the stupidity spews from this administration, there's nothing but excuses.  




Gas prices... They effect all people who work for a living. Where I live, the Hispanic population is heavily involved in the service industry. Whether it be hotel/ condo/ private homes/ pool service/ yard maintenance/ construction/ etc. etc. I would be included in that category. And I'm now a minority in that field. When the price of fuel goes up... I raise my prices accordingly. I will lose some jobs because I compete against some really cheap competition. Thankfully, I have somewhat of a reputation of showing up, being on time and am very quick and clean with what I do. So, most people know my work, and will use me because I can do a job in less than 7/8 the time. And do it right the first time. Unlike some other guys running around.
Those other guys will struggle big time when fuel goes up. And lose money. Not very helpful to a group of people this administration courts for votes.
And what, for an example, are those gardeners going to do when they can't get gas powered lawn mowers/ edgers/ blowers/ etc. to do their work??
Yes, I feel the policies of this administration have affected the prices of everything. When fuel prices go up... so does parcel delivery, food and every type of supply item out there.
It's a well known fact... they want to outlaw gas burning anything. And push the electric vehicle format. One of the ways that happens... tax the living snot out of fuel. It happens continuously here in California. I can see it. And they say it.
This administration says they want to eliminate the production of fossil fuels. Yes? So that's their goal. And it's happening because Biden is courting Saudi Arabia for fuel we still need. Not for keeping cost down.
I've had this discussion around here before...  Now if anybody here is up on the cars that are on the road today... you would know how much more efficient they are compared to cars that were on the road 20-30 years ago.
I realize that they still not a efficient as some say they should be. But it's really hard to beat today's latest creation of an internal combustion engine.
Let me give you an example. My truck will be 47 years old this December. It's a 1974 model. It's allowed 850 ppm of hydrocarbons at idle. My wife's Dodge Durango is required to put out no more than 16 ppm at idle.
I've modified my truck heavily in these last 47 years. In fact, it puts out almost four times the horsepower over the stock engine it came with... and it gets better mileage... with less pollutants than required by the State of California.
I remember growing up in Orange County California in the early- mid 60's. I walked to school. On foggy mornings when the dew was falling, it would burn your eyes because of the pollutants in the air. Your lungs would hurt by the time for the walk home. And your eyes would burn because the smog was so bad.
That doesn't happen anymore... and there's way more cars on the road.
What should Biden do?
Let the free market dictate the tech to make electric cars work. It will happen. You can't force stuff like that on people.
Eventually the tech will catch up. Subsidizing the industry/ welfare just causes more corruption. There's all kinds of examples of that going on. And it allows lazy people to continue to sponge off of the ones who work hard for a living.
Like I've said many times before... I'm all for helping people who need a hand... there's plenty of them around. But I'm VERY prejudiced against lazy losers.

Sorry for the rambling... it's past my bedtime.
And I need to get up at 4:30.







Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 3:59pm

 haresfur wrote:


every sperm is special


sacred, in fact
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 3:44pm

 westslope wrote:
+1

HIV/AIDS.    I went to wiki to look for a number.  An estimated 20.6 million had died from the condition between the early 1980s and 2020.   Source.

Wiki also reminded me that the Roman Catholic Church opposed the use of condoms.     



every sperm is special
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 3:39pm

+1

HIV/AIDS.    I went to wiki to look for a number.  An estimated 20.6 million had died from the condition between the early 1980s and 2020.   Source.

Wiki also reminded me that the Roman Catholic Church opposed the use of condoms.     
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 3:33pm

 miamizsun wrote:


just a thought
if covid or a variant kicks back up and causes folks to require medical attention/service
we will need someone to give that care (or regular care for the elderly too)
isn't there currently a shortage of nurses/workers now?
banning the very professionals you desperately need at this moment may not be the best strategy
if med workers are testing regularly and they're properly masked/donned up wouldn't that be enough?

i don't know...i'd hate to see this backfire and cause problems
if we can get through the current crisis we can demonize them later, no?

I don't want it to backfire either but there is evidence that health professionals were spreading covid through hospitals in New South Wales, although the government hushed it up to the point of not informing relatives of patients in hospitals that were exposure sites. The problem with delta is that people have spread the disease by the time they find out they have it.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 3:24pm

 Steely_D wrote:

I can't help but remind people that, thirty-something years ago, the medical profession spent a long time wondering what this thing was that they called GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) although it was in Haitians, hemophiliacs, heroin abusers, and homosexuals. Referred to as the "four H's" at the time.

Politics prevented us from writing the diagnosis in the medical record - really, literally. We had to create euphemisms. "24 year old man from SF with immune compromise..." and there was no treatment, no cure, no hope. It was a quick, painful, lonely death sentence.

None of the way we diagnose/identify the disease was obvious immediately. Treatment options were slim to none. Only with perseverance did things change into the way HIV is treated today. But, man, were there uncertainties and mistakes for years at the beginning. And, like I said, politics...

So some forgiveness is in order. The CDC is staffed with experts, but sometimes things aren't laid out obviously, and some take time to understand - while the press pushes hourly for news and information and then publishes whatever the hell they want in order to get eyeballs.






It's very nice to have an actual medical professional in the forum. Your perspective is much appreciated.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 3:08pm

 westslope wrote:
What matters is how quickly the institutions in charge evolve as new information comes in the door.  In that respect I would argue that the CDC has done a good job.   A really good job.  To the benefit of not only Americans but for folks living outside the USA.

I can't help but remind people that, thirty-something years ago, the medical profession spent a long time wondering what this thing was that they called GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) although it was in Haitians, hemophiliacs, heroin abusers, and homosexuals. Referred to as the "four H's" at the time.

Politics prevented us from writing the diagnosis in the medical record - really, literally. We had to create euphemisms. "24 year old man from SF with immune compromise..." and there was no treatment, no cure, no hope. It was a quick, painful, lonely death sentence.

None of the way we diagnose/identify the disease was obvious immediately. Treatment options were slim to none. Only with perseverance did things change into the way HIV is treated today. But, man, were there uncertainties and mistakes for years at the beginning. And, like I said, politics...

So some forgiveness is in order. The CDC is staffed with experts, but sometimes things aren't laid out obviously, and some take time to understand - while the press pushes hourly for news and information and then publishes whatever the hell they want in order to get eyeballs.




westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 12:26pm

 R_P wrote:

Big GOV!!1!


You been hanging with all those hoity-toity social anarchists in Montreal?    



black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 11:01am

Good discussion with Gottlieb:
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/...
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 10:53am

 Steely_D wrote:


There is no honor in “fighting” a vaccine mandate. We’ve required them for decades. These are people easily led through social media by America’s enemies to refuse medical care for a preventable infectious disease. This isn’t about “freedom” but really about propaganda aimed at the most gullible. And they exist at all levels.



just a thought
if covid or a variant kicks back up and causes folks to require medical attention/service
we will need someone to give that care (or regular care for the elderly too)
isn't there currently a shortage of nurses/workers now?
banning the very professionals you desperately need at this moment may not be the best strategy
if med workers are testing regularly and they're properly masked/donned up wouldn't that be enough?
i don't know...i'd hate to see this backfire and cause problems
if we can get through the current crisis we can demonize them later, no?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 10:48am

 R_P wrote:

Big GOV!!1!



We want big, but also effective, Gov in certain things, right?
I think Gottlieb's point is, the CDC does a lot of good things, but it wasn't ready, or built to deal with a pandemic.
So while not blaming the CDC directly, it's a failure of oversight by our elected officials of our bureaucracy. 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 10:45am

 black321 wrote:
But we were lucky we had the mRNA vaccine work as far along as it was. 
And I suppose your point may be, things could have been a lot better, if we had let them be.

There is no doubt that things could have been managed better, but the reality is that nobody wants to invest in planning for something they've never experienced and don't quite understand.  See Global Warming.

There is a difference between making mistakes and sabotage, and I think the CDC is trying to do the best they can without much support from "decision-makers" for the first half of the pandemic.

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 10:30am

 black321 wrote:
You have to throw in a dose of incompetence at the CDC. 

Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a recent interview with CBS News that the CDC was never prepared to handle a crisis on the scale of COVID-19, and that the U.S. government suffered from "a failure of vision" since the start of the pandemic. The agency thought to be the gold standard for public health is better equipped for data analysis than decisive action, he said.

Big GOV!!1!

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