This is not going off track. This is about killing the public acceptance of the concept of Christmas and vis a vis Christianity. X-mas is an invention of space saving mass marketing Madison Avenue.
Do we have a March 17th parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade ?
Let's call it the December parade and not the Holiday Parade, eh ? Just which Holiday is the reason for the Holiday Parade anyway ?
The political correctness BS is just getting to far out of hand. Your afraid to say Christmas cause it hurts you and offends you. You prove it by your insistance of using the denegrating and offending term x-mas.
I got Rosh Hassanah and Yom Kippur off where I used to work. I was not offended. I honored the Holidays and said thank you for the time off.
Separation of church and state?
Your boss was generous to give you those Jewish holidays off, possibly because s/he was Jewish? I have always had to take PTO days to have those holy days off.
Here's some 411 on Hanukkah: Hanukkah is a minor festival day that commemorates the destruction of the Second Temple. Like most Jewish holidays, it celebrates "They tried to kill us, we survived, let's eat." If it was in October, would get as much attention as a similar festival day of Sukkot, commemorating the harvest.
In Israel, this holiday gets very little attention, but in the Diaspora, especially in the US, Hanukkah has grown bigger and bigger, as Jews defend themselves against the onslaught of the increasingly commercial holiday of Christmas. We put up with the Christmas lights contest in the neighborhoods, the Christmas parties at school, and all the other Christmas crap that is shoved into our faces. We explain why Santa doesn't come to our house, why we don't have a tree, why we get small gifts instead of XBoxes.
There is no inconsistency here. The presence of religious symbols on graves at Arlington does not imply government endorsement of any religion. It only implies that the person buried there endorsed the religion whose symbol marks their final resting place.
And that person's presence at Arlington is a recognition that they served and sacrificed in defense of the rights we all enjoy. This includes freedom of religion, despite what the fundamentalist-minded among us might prefer.
Perhaps you think we should emulate Iran? They don't show much respect for other faiths, and why should they? They're a Muslim nation. Says so right in their constitution. Their cultural heritage is Muslim, and has been for longer than we've lived on this side of the Atlantic. I assume that you have no problem with their government's full-throated endorsement of their predominant religion at the expense of all others? Or with the Taliban's, for that matter?
The Quakers and Puritans came here precisely to escape the marriage of church and state. You didn't have to be Anglican to live in England, but you were damn sure treated like a second-class citizen and borderline traitor if you weren't. And God help you if you complained about it, because no one else would.
I find it deeply ironic and profoundly offensive that people ever since the Puritans keep trying to twist this legacy into its opposite. In the United States, we have no official religion or creed - we hold all beliefs and believers equal under the law. Let's keep it that way.
I don't know how you came up with that conclusion, based upon any of my remarks. I am remarking about how Christianity in this country is being attacked for its public presence. I am trying to point out inconsistancies in the use of logic in this debate by broadening it to include other aspects of inconsistancy such as Christmas Trees in the White House and the placement of crosses at Arlington. Either there is tolerance and understanding or there is zero tolerance and no exceptions. I am clearly in favor of tolerance and understanding and if you have followed my points, I don't see how you could conclude otherwise.
A man withdrew his participation in a Christmas parade because it is no longer a Christmas parade and is being attacked over his decision. That he is not being allowed to object and not participate without being attacked for his decision is remarkable. Does calling the parade a Christmas parade imply government preference and endorsement to Christianity over another religion or is it merely honoring tradition and heritage ? I go with the latter and proffer that those offended have no tolerance or understanding of tradition or heritage or longstanding legacies.
As for Christmas being the only possible Holiday behind the parades and festivities - there are a number of others, like Hanukkah, Ashura, Bodhi Day, and Kwanzaa. Many faiths have winter holidays for a variety of reasons. Even leaving questions of civic propriety aside, it only makes sense to refer to "the holiday season".
So a railroad xing is actually an abbreviation of railroad christing? Who knew? It's xmas everyday then! Huzzah!
This is not going off track. This is about killing the public acceptance of the concept of Christmas and vis a vis Christianity. X-mas is an invention of space saving mass marketing Madison Avenue.
Do we have a March 17th parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade ?
Let's call it the December parade and not the Holiday Parade, eh ? Just which Holiday is the reason for the Holiday Parade anyway ?
The political correctness BS is just getting to far out of hand. Your afraid to say Christmas cause it hurts you and offends you. You prove it by your insistance of using the denegrating and offending term x-mas.
I got Rosh Hassanah and Yom Kippur off where I used to work. I was not offended. I honored the Holidays and said thank you for the time off.
As for Christmas being the only possible Holiday behind the parades and festivities - there are a number of others, like Hanukkah, Ashura, Bodhi Day, and Kwanzaa. Many faiths have winter holidays for a variety of reasons. Even leaving questions of civic propriety aside, it only makes sense to refer to "the holiday season".
This is not going off track. This is about killing the public acceptance of the concept of Christmas and vis a vis Christianity. X-mas is an invention of space saving mass marketing Madison Avenue.
Do we have a March 17th parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade ?
Let's call it the December parade and not the Holiday Parade, eh ? Just which Holiday is the reason for the Holiday Parade anyway ?
The political correctness BS is just getting to far out of hand. Your afraid to say Christmas cause it hurts you and offends you. You prove it by your insistance of using the denegrating and offending term x-mas.
I got Rosh Hassanah and Yom Kippur off where I used to work. I was not offended. I honored the Holidays and said thank you for the time off.
Catering to the lowest common denominator. Geez, let's not offend anybody...ever....boooooring.
Its becoming a sadder world by the day. To not go after a place like Arlington is inconsistent with the argument presented by those offended by crosses on public property. I will use this example to redirect the argument whenever I can. This is clearly a nation rooted in Christianity, Arlington among other places, proves it.
And the fact that Hebrew as well as Muslim symbols can be found there as well proves our tolerance and inclusiveness to other religions as well.
There is no inconsistency here. The presence of religious symbols on graves at Arlington does not imply government endorsement of any religion. It only implies that the person buried there endorsed the religion whose symbol marks their final resting place.
And that person's presence at Arlington is a recognition that they served and sacrificed in defense of the rights we all enjoy. This includes freedom of religion, despite what the fundamentalist-minded among us might prefer.
Perhaps you think we should emulate Iran? They don't show much respect for other faiths, and why should they? They're a Muslim nation. Says so right in their constitution. Their cultural heritage is Muslim, and has been for longer than we've lived on this side of the Atlantic. I assume that you have no problem with their government's full-throated endorsement of their predominant religion at the expense of all others? Or with the Taliban's, for that matter?
The Quakers and Puritans came here precisely to escape the marriage of church and state. You didn't have to be Anglican to live in England, but you were damn sure treated like a second-class citizen and borderline traitor if you weren't. And God help you if you complained about it, because no one else would.
I find it deeply ironic and profoundly offensive that people ever since the Puritans keep trying to twist this legacy into its opposite. In the United States, we have no official religion or creed - we hold all beliefs and believers equal under the law. Let's keep it that way.
You're getting offtrack. The point was that the Congressman was offended that the parade name was changed to be inclusive, and he only wanted XMas, thereby being completely exclusive.
This is not going off track. This is about killing the public acceptance of the concept of Christmas and vis a vis Christianity. X-mas is an invention of space saving mass marketing Madison Avenue.
Do we have a March 17th parade or a St. Patrick's Day Parade ?
Let's call it the December parade and not the Holiday Parade, eh ? Just which Holiday is the reason for the Holiday Parade anyway ?
The political correctness BS is just getting to far out of hand. Your afraid to say Christmas cause it hurts you and offends you. You prove it by your insistance of using the denegrating and offending term x-mas.
I got Rosh Hassanah and Yom Kippur off where I used to work. I was not offended. I honored the Holidays and said thank you for the time off.
You're getting offtrack. The point was that the Congressman was offended that the parade name was changed to be inclusive, and he only wanted XMas, thereby being completely exclusive.
Well he wasn't offended, probably, but he was certainly pandering to those who were.
whatever... Once again, you lump all Christians as one. Last I checked, I had nothing to do with your children's school. Nothing.
In the 8th grade, I went to a mostly (90+%) Jewish students school. No displays of Christmas trees. I did not have a hissy fit. *but I did enjoy being off almost every other day for a Jewish Holiday...*
NEVER tell me I don't understand minority feelings or the concept of being a minority. I had my ass whipped by three white males because I had the fucking gall to have black friends in Charleston, SC in 1966. Your intolerance is smothering and your ignorance boundless. Next time you see a Nativity scene or a Christmas tree, look away. You are not compelled to look or appreciate. Do allow Christians to show appreciation or be seen as endlessly intolerant. Endlessly.
THE Vassar Clements? I am not worthy...I saw Vassar, an old man for sure, a few years back as a Special Guest with the incomparable Nitty Gritty Dirt Band...
Lucky. He looks a little grumpy there, Hank Wangford's more of a schtick than an actual band, but they can play. I have a vinyl EP somewhere. Guess I better go rip it now...
A cross in the context we are speaking is a cross, a Christian symbol and artifact. Why should it be ok one place and not another ? It means the same thing wherever it is.
If a cross offends one on public (government) property, then it must equally offend when placed in a public (government) cemetary. How can it not ?
You're getting offtrack. The point was that the Congressman was offended that the parade name was changed to be inclusive, and he only wanted XMas, thereby being completely exclusive.
No on is saying that those buried at Arlington should not be allowed to have a cross on their gravestone, but those of other religions should be allowed to have theirs as well.
And I do believe it is a choice as to whether or not to be buried at Arlington. And this is what the ACLU has to say about the subject: The ACLU vigorously defends people’s freedom to choose their religion under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Furthermore, the ACLU would defend the first amendment rights of all veteran Americans and service members to display the religious symbol of their choosing on their grave. Therefore, the vehement attacks on the ACLU claiming that gravestones and markers at federal cemeteries, including Arlington Cemetery, are in danger is patently false and misleading, serving as nothing more than a red herring to the constitutional issues at stake. These bills only serve to slam shut the courthouse doors to religious minorities by insulating all religious claims from federal litigation and denying just compensation for their claims.
Your religion is shoved down my throat when my children's school's only symbol of the holidays are Christmas trees, reindeer, and Santa, and no Jewish symbol is allowed in the school, because they are all considered "religious." (Yes, this is a true story).
Your religion is shoved down my throat when the municipalities put creches in front of city hall. And when there are signs all over that say "Merry Christmas!" No one stops you from practicing, but I don't have to be subjected to this.
Since you are not any kind of minority whatsoever, you probably lack the ability to understand this concept.
whatever... Once again, you lump all Christians as one. Last I checked, I had nothing to do with your children's school. Nothing.
In the 8th grade, I went to a mostly (90+%) Jewish students school. No displays of Christmas trees. I did not have a hissy fit. *but I did enjoy being off almost every other day for a Jewish Holiday...*
NEVER tell me I don't understand minority feelings or the concept of being a minority. I had my ass whipped by three white males because I had the fucking gall to have black friends in Charleston, SC in 1966. Your intolerance is smothering and your ignorance boundless.
Next time you see a Nativity scene or a Christmas tree, look away. You are not compelled to look or appreciate. Do allow Christians to show appreciation or be seen as endlessly intolerant. Endlessly.
Not offended by crosses, but, once again, the fact that it's a cemetary adds more to the discussion, as opposed to a town square. Isn't the cross a symbol for the faith of the departed?
A cross in the context we are speaking is a cross, a Christian symbol and artifact. Why should it be ok one place and not another ? It means the same thing wherever it is.
If a cross offends one on public (government) property, then it must equally offend when placed in a public (government) cemetary. How can it not ?
That made me think of "Jogging With Jesus" by the Hank Wangford Band. I couldn't find it but hey, let's have a music break:
That's Vassar Clements on fiddle... with a bunch of Brits singing about Texas.
THE Vassar Clements? I am not worthy...I saw Vassar, an old man for sure, a few years back as a Special Guest with the incomparable Nitty Gritty Dirt Band...
