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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » As California Goes, So Goes The Rest Of The Country Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11
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Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 5, 2009 - 5:01pm

I'd like to see a petition to recall the governor.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 5, 2009 - 4:35pm

From ABC News' website:

Quotes Of The Day

July 03, 2009 11:34 AM


"I can't pay bills with IOUs. I can't pay salaries with IOUs." - Thomas Bent, medical director, Laguna Beach Community Clinic, telling the Los Angeles Times he expects to receive more than $10,000 in IOUs as payment for services.


Stay tuned ...

(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 10:20am

 winter wrote:

....

If people don't want a bunch of unfunded mandates from Washington, they should stop sending people who like issuing creating unfunded mandates to Washington. If you don't like Pelosi (or anyone else in the House), you get a chance to replace her every two years. In my opinion, Congressional re-election rates are high because most people don't care enough about their elected representatives. It's easy to care about the Presidency: just one guy to keep track of, and he gets a lot of press. Plus there's a whole year-long run-up to the election keeping it all at the front of your mind. But Congress is every bit as important - perhaps more so, since they control the purse strings.

 
Couldn't agree more.

With all the noise and discontent with Pelosi, one would expect that something would be done in 2010 to vote her out at the polls. Maybe things in California will be bad enough by then that voters will make the change. Let the people speak.



winter

winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 9:59am

 kurtster wrote:
 

As California goes, so goes the country, eventually.  As a multi generational native Californian, I have heard it all my life.  While that in itself is no big deal anymore, everyone is from somewhere originally, and that's where me and the old lady are from.  Heck, our grandson is a Seventh Generation native.  So it is somewhat relevant to my point of view even today.  No disrespect to the other multi - generational California natives over the meaningful age of 40 something.  I don't claim to speak for you.  Anyone else who claims to be a first generation native under the age of 40 and calls it "Cali", you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Here it is.  California is the crucible for President Obama's policies and also the spectre of unfunded mandates.  Arnold is taking the state to places no one has gone before.  When I was a kid, the state was the world's 5th largest economy, now it has slipped to 8th

California is broke with a $24 Billion deficit, which includes an unfunded and federally mandated safety net of social services for illegal immigrants that costs the state from $6 to $9 Billion annually.  Arnold went to see the president and asked for $7 or $8 Billion dollars, which is oddly enough the same amount of these unfunded mandates.  The President basically told Arnold to pound salt.  In 6 weeks, the state runs out of money, with Arnold promising a plethora of cuts in services to resident citizens as well as massive layoffs to government workers, turning prisoners loose (especially illegal immigrants to be turned over to federal authorities for deportation), all the while loudly promising to maintain services for the illegal immigrants as mandated by federal law.  The pie is only so big and some are being shoved away from the dinner table.  Funny how the ones being pushed away from the table paid for it.  I find this an excellent way to bring the issue of unfunded federal mandates and illegal immigrants to a head.  Arnold, a legal immigrant, is being so shrewd in this approach. 

The sanctuary cities can tax their own residents to maintain their status, and leave the rest of the California's citizens free of that burden.  Don't like it?, then move out.  There already has been precedent for illegals squatting and acquiring legal possession of a citizen's property.  So just leave peacefully, they can take your stuff and you can't do anything about it.  That OK with you, Nancy?  If you wanted Arnold to have the money to save your adopted (you carpet bagging east coast carpet bag) and my home state, why that should be a cinch, eh granny?  Move back to Baltimore and fix the problems you brought west with you.

Will Obama keep his promise and let California go to hell and bankrupt all in the same day, or will he cave in and bail out the state, in the fashion of AIG and Government Motors?  And if he does, will Arnold accept the strings attached in return for the money or will he tell the President to pound salt, California is too big to fail, we will do it Arnold's way ?

Pay attention folks, this is the future of our country.  Most of our states are on the verge of insolvency as well as California.  Some are talking about ceding from the Union.  States' rights are being destroyed.  Who is gonna blink in this game of chicken?  Arnold or Obama?  My money is on Arnold to come out on top in this opening round and get the money.

Look into the crystal ball of the future, which California is.  Like what you see ?  6 weeks and counting down.

OBTW:  I really don't hate Obama, he's just a transparent version of Bush.  Pelosi on the otherhand, if I saw her standing in front of a puddle at a bus stop, well, you can be sure that she would get soaked.

These are my opinions based upon observation.  You want facts, go find them yourself.  Just remember, it was once a fact that 99% of all heroin addicts started on mother's milk.  Just shows how relevant some facts can be.


 
Honestly, as much as I generally like Schwarzenegger this looks like grandstanding to me. He wants to make points about unfunded mandates and illegal immigration - fine. He has that right.

But as governor, his job is governing, not scoring political points. Enacting layoffs and releasing prisoners to prove a point is cutting off the taxpayers' noses to spite Congress' face. Yes, $9 billion is a big chunk of change. That still leaves $13 billion of the $24 billion defiicit. So even if that illegal immigrant issue went away, you'd still be massively in the hole. Might be worth looking at other causes for that, and other solutions. Might even be more worthwhile than making a bunch of noise and "taking a stand".

If people don't want a bunch of unfunded mandates from Washington, they should stop sending people who like issuing unfunded mandates to Washington. If you don't like Pelosi (or anyone else in the House), you get a chance to replace her every two years. In my opinion, Congressional re-election rates are high because most people don't care enough about their elected representatives. It's easy to care about the Presidency: just one guy to keep track of, and he gets a lot of press. Plus there's a whole year-long run-up to the election keeping it all at the front of your mind. But Congress is every bit as important - perhaps more so, since they control the purse strings.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 9:53am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Sounds like first I need to establish my California bona fides. My father's father was an immigrant to the Central Valley at the age of three. He didn't graduate the eighth grade because they told him he had to have shoes to attend the ceremony, and he didn't. So he went to work. My father's mother was an Okie. Literally. Rode the family's truck out from Broken Bow when the family business (they were lumbermen) collapsed. They started a small deli with another immigrant family (immigrants from a different country, btw).

My mother's father took over the family olive grove at the age of 14 when his immigrant father died. My mother's mother had actually finished a two-year college—the first on either side of my family, and the first in her immigrant family to even learn to read.

My parents both went to college, as did all their siblings. I was born in Pasadena while my father earned his PhD. The family has prospered; my mother's father, late in life, bought himself a Cadillac so the people who had sneered at him as a dirty Dago in his youth could see him drive it.

So blaming all of California's problems on immigrants won't wash with me. There is just a little more to it than that.

I was born there but we moved away; I moved back to go to college and work but left when my kids were approaching school age. I didn't want to subject them to the crumbling, violence-wracked school system and couldn't afford private schools. I've been back many times to see family and for work, so I've seen how the place has changed. And I've watched the state government's fiscal problems with a mixture of sadness and disaproval: they are entirely self-inflicted.

California is addicted to the free lunch. Mountains of red tape and taxes making living there too expensive? Subsidize living there! Daycare! Public transit! Housing! We'll force insurance companies to insure your car, no matter how you drive! We'll forbid the power company to raise your electric bill, regardless what the power actually costs! Don't want to pay for it all? We'll cap your taxes! Something—anything—bad happened to you? We'll make sure you can sue whoever you need to to become wealthy enough to retire!

A lot of this came about not from pandering politicians but the initiative process. By which I should say that now anybody can be a pandering politician, elected or not. If the electorate wants it they can demand it, and demand that somebody else pay for it.

And they're running out of somebody elses. Businesses aren't flocking to California anymore—they can't pay the taxes and bear the regulatory burden unless their margins are extraordinarily high. So a few engineers and executives can have jobs at headquarters, but the real work gets done in Singapore. People like me flee for better opportunities and lower costs, leaving a few rich folks who can afford to shelter their assets and the teeming multitudes demanding more and more.

So the bill for all those free lunches is due and nobody is grabbing the check. In fact, nobody is even willing to stop ordering, blaming everyone else at the table. And until everybody is willing to pay their share and leave the table to fix their own lunch y'all will sit there screaming about how unfair it all is.

People like me have given up trying to solve these problems and left, driven away by the shortsightedness that dug the hole you're in. You're on your own. Good luck, California.

Because you are. I wish I could say that the reckoning California is facing will come to the rest of the country soon, but the nation as a whole can keep borrowing a bit longer, can print money when China won't loan us any more. That reckoning will have to wait, and we'll put it off until the wrenching process California is going thru actually looks better than the status quo.

Lead the way. We'll be along in ten years or so.


 
Your story is similar to the wife's, where her aunts and uncles picked fruit in the groves of Northern California and others worked for Holly Sugar.  Some of her family were Okies as well.  Difference being that both of our families have someone who got here before the Revolution.  GW is a muti timed great uncle of her's.

Illegals are not the cause of the problems, just symptomatic or symbolic for the unfunded mandate.  The illegals just took advantage of a situation.  I find little fault in them, I have a problem with the enablers.

As for 10 years, they said that when we were growing up.  I think its down to 10 months now.

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 9:29am

 kurtster wrote:
 As California goes, so goes the country, eventually.  As a multi generational native Californian, I have heard it all my life.  While that in itself is no big deal anymore, everyone is from somewhere originally, and that's where me and the old lady are from.  Heck, our grandson is a Seventh Generation native.  So it is somewhat relevant to my point of view even today.  No disrespect to the other multi - generational California natives over the meaningful age of 40 something.  I don't claim to speak for you.  Anyone else who claims to be a first generation native under the age of 40 and calls it "Cali", you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Here it is.  California is the crucible for President Obama's policies and also the spectre of unfunded mandates.  Arnold is taking the state to places no one has gone before.  When I was a kid, the state was the world's 5th largest economy, now it has slipped to 8th

California is broke with a $24 Billion deficit, which includes an unfunded and federally mandated safety net of social services for illegal immigrants that costs the state from $6 to $9 Billion annually.  Arnold went to see the president and asked for $7 or $8 Billion dollars, which is oddly enough the same amount of these unfunded mandates.  The President basically told Arnold to pound salt.  In 6 weeks, the state runs out of money, with Arnold promising a plethora of cuts in services to resident citizens as well as massive layoffs to government workers, turning prisoners loose (especially illegal immigrants to be turned over to federal authorities for deportation), all the while loudly promising to maintain services for the illegal immigrants as mandated by federal law.  The pie is only so big and some are being shoved away from the dinner table.  Funny how the ones being pushed away from the table paid for it.  I find this an excellent way to bring the issue of unfunded federal mandates and illegal immigrants to a head.  Arnold, a legal immigrant, is being so shrewd in this approach. 

The sanctuary cities can tax their own residents to maintain their status, and leave the rest of the California's citizens free of that burden.  Don't like it?, then move out.  There already has been precedent for illegals squatting and acquiring legal possession of a citizen's property.  So just leave peacefully, they can take your stuff and you can't do anything about it.  That OK with you, Nancy?  If you wanted Arnold to have the money to save your adopted (you carpet bagging east coast carpet bag) and my home state, why that should be a cinch, eh granny?  Move back to Baltimore and fix the problems you brought west with you.

Will Obama keep his promise and let California go to hell and bankrupt all in the same day, or will he cave in and bail out the state, in the fashion of AIG and Government Motors?  And if he does, will Arnold accept the strings attached in return for the money or will he tell the President to pound salt, California is too big to fail, we will do it Arnold's way ?

Pay attention folks, this is the future of our country.  Most of our states are on the verge of insolvency as well as California.  Some are talking about ceding from the Union.  States' rights are being destroyed.  Who is gonna blink in this game of chicken?  Arnold or Obama?  My money is on Arnold to come out on top in this opening round and get the money.

Look into the crystal ball of the future, which California is.  Like what you see ?  6 weeks and counting down.

OBTW:  I really don't hate Obama, he's just a transparent version of Bush.  Pelosi on the otherhand, if I saw her standing in front of a puddle at a bus stop, well, you can be sure that she would get soaked.

These are my opinions based upon observation.  You want facts, go find them yourself.  Just remember, it was once a fact that 99% of all heroin addicts started on mother's milk.  Just shows how relevant some facts can be.

 
Sounds like first I need to establish my California bona fides. My father's father was an immigrant to the Central Valley at the age of three. He didn't graduate the eighth grade because they told him he had to have shoes to attend the ceremony, and he didn't. So he went to work. My father's mother was an Okie. Literally. Rode the family's truck out from Broken Bow when the family business (they were lumbermen) collapsed. They started a small deli with another immigrant family (immigrants from a different country, btw).

My mother's father took over the family olive grove at the age of 14 when his immigrant father died. My mother's mother had actually finished a two-year college—the first on either side of my family, and the first in her immigrant family to even learn to read.

My parents both went to college, as did all their siblings. I was born in Pasadena while my father earned his PhD. The family has prospered; my mother's father, late in life, bought himself a Cadillac so the people who had sneered at him as a dirty Dago in his youth could see him drive it.

So blaming all of California's problems on immigrants won't wash with me. There is just a little more to it than that.

I was born there but we moved away; I moved back to go to college and work but left when my kids were approaching school age. I didn't want to subject them to the crumbling, violence-wracked school system and couldn't afford private schools. I've been back many times to see family and for work, so I've seen how the place has changed. And I've watched the state government's fiscal problems with a mixture of sadness and disaproval: they are entirely self-inflicted.

California is addicted to the free lunch. Mountains of red tape and taxes making living there too expensive? Subsidize living there! Daycare! Public transit! Housing! We'll force insurance companies to insure your car, no matter how you drive! We'll forbid the power company to raise your electric bill, regardless what the power actually costs! Don't want to pay for it all? We'll cap your taxes! Something—anything—bad happened to you? We'll make sure you can sue whoever you need to to become wealthy enough to retire!

A lot of this came about not from pandering politicians but the initiative process. By which I should say that now anybody can be a pandering politician, elected or not. If the electorate wants it they can demand it, and demand that somebody else pay for it.

And they're running out of somebody elses. Businesses aren't flocking to California anymore—they can't pay the taxes and bear the regulatory burden unless their margins are extraordinarily high. So a few engineers and executives can have jobs at headquarters, but the real work gets done in Singapore. People like me flee for better opportunities and lower costs, leaving a few rich folks who can afford to shelter their assets and the teeming multitudes demanding more and more.

So the bill for all those free lunches is due and nobody is grabbing the check. In fact, nobody is even willing to stop ordering, blaming everyone else at the table. And until everybody is willing to pay their share and leave the table to fix their own lunch y'all will sit there screaming about how unfair it all is.

People like me have given up trying to solve these problems and left, driven away by the shortsightedness that dug the hole you're in. You're on your own. Good luck, California.

Because you are. I wish I could say that the reckoning California is facing will come to the rest of the country soon, but the nation as a whole can keep borrowing a bit longer, can print money when China won't loan us any more. That reckoning will have to wait, and we'll put it off until the wrenching process California is going thru actually looks better than the status quo.

Lead the way. We'll be along in ten years or so.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 7:38am



very good for filling gaps.
Southern_Boy

Southern_Boy Avatar

Location: On my way to the beach
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 7:34am

At some point soon they are going to run out of someone else's money.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 7:28am

 

As California goes, so goes the country, eventually.  As a multi generational native Californian, I have heard it all my life.  While that in itself is no big deal anymore, everyone is from somewhere originally, and that's where me and the old lady are from.  Heck, our grandson is a Seventh Generation native.  So it is somewhat relevant to my point of view even today.  No disrespect to the other multi - generational California natives over the meaningful age of 40 something.  I don't claim to speak for you.  Anyone else who claims to be a first generation native under the age of 40 and calls it "Cali", you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Here it is.  California is the crucible for President Obama's policies and also the spectre of unfunded mandates.  Arnold is taking the state to places no one has gone before.  When I was a kid, the state was the world's 5th largest economy, now it has slipped to 8th

California is broke with a $24 Billion deficit, which includes an unfunded and federally mandated safety net of social services for illegal immigrants that costs the state from $6 to $9 Billion annually.  Arnold went to see the president and asked for $7 or $8 Billion dollars, which is oddly enough the same amount of these unfunded mandates.  The President basically told Arnold to pound salt.  In 6 weeks, the state runs out of money, with Arnold promising a plethora of cuts in services to resident citizens as well as massive layoffs to government workers, turning prisoners loose (especially illegal immigrants to be turned over to federal authorities for deportation), all the while loudly promising to maintain services for the illegal immigrants as mandated by federal law.  The pie is only so big and some are being shoved away from the dinner table.  Funny how the ones being pushed away from the table paid for it.  I find this an excellent way to bring the issue of unfunded federal mandates and illegal immigrants to a head.  Arnold, a legal immigrant, is being so shrewd in this approach. 

The sanctuary cities can tax their own residents to maintain their status, and leave the rest of the California's citizens free of that burden.  Don't like it?, then move out.  There already has been precedent for illegals squatting and acquiring legal possession of a citizen's property.  So just leave peacefully, they can take your stuff and you can't do anything about it.  That OK with you, Nancy?  If you wanted Arnold to have the money to save your adopted (you carpet bagging east coast carpet bag) and my home state, why that should be a cinch, eh granny?  Move back to Baltimore and fix the problems you brought west with you.

Will Obama keep his promise and let California go to hell and bankrupt all in the same day, or will he cave in and bail out the state, in the fashion of AIG and Government Motors?  And if he does, will Arnold accept the strings attached in return for the money or will he tell the President to pound salt, California is too big to fail, we will do it Arnold's way ?

Pay attention folks, this is the future of our country.  Most of our states are on the verge of insolvency as well as California.  Some are talking about ceding from the Union.  States' rights are being destroyed.  Who is gonna blink in this game of chicken?  Arnold or Obama?  My money is on Arnold to come out on top in this opening round and get the money.

Look into the crystal ball of the future, which California is.  Like what you see ?  6 weeks and counting down.

OBTW:  I really don't hate Obama, he's just a transparent version of Bush.  Pelosi on the otherhand, if I saw her standing in front of a puddle at a bus stop, well, you can be sure that she would get soaked.

These are my opinions based upon observation.  You want facts, go find them yourself.  Just remember, it was once a fact that 99% of all heroin addicts started on mother's milk.  Just shows how relevant some facts can be.



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