In warm wet air, appalling. In warm dry air, even more appalling. In cold dry air, not even feasible.
I've worked on two such systems, one commercial (for household use) and one military. The military unit came on a trailer and used a desiccant approach (like a large HVAC dehumidifier) which extended its operating range but it was still a huge energy pig.
For some situations you can justify it: remote military operations in dry country or disaster relief. The military looked at it like this: it cost them about the same to truck a gallon of water as a gallon of diesel. If you can make more than a gallon of water from a gallon of diesel it made sense to just truck one kind of fluid.
For solar applications you can sort of kinda justify it as long as the solar power has no other use. It takes a lot of area of solar panels to make significant amounts of water, and this precludes running at night when they're more efficient.
There have been lots of demonstration projects that made a trickle of water out of a lot of energy. The commercial product I worked on (turn of the century) and all its contemporary competitors are all out of business. This idea just won't die, much as it deserves to.
There are niche applications where it does make sense. As you noted: solar. Solar is difficult because you have to build for peak load, but you often don't use it, so you have excess that can be routed to things like this. The model we are working on runs on about 20 amps of 240 most of the time, so 5KW. with losses conversion ect. call it a 7.5KW array (most run time will be in full sun). But the system is going to have 10KW of array, and it's a storage system (battery), so depending on conditions we can kick it on at 4:30 AM when conditions are prime and run it for a couple of hours until the sun starts to make up power. Then we shut the water system off at noon to allow AC loads and battery charging, then depending on loads we bring it back online in the afternoon. It's not going to meet the needs of a city, but it can meet the needs of a household. The solar footprint is 28 panels that are ~4x8, but placed on an angle, so well under 1000 ft^2 with mounts/rigging/walkways, and most of this will be on an unused rooftop (so it shades the roof as well).
That's interesting.
I wonder what the energy usage is, relative to H2O from the tap?
In warm wet air, appalling. In warm dry air, even more appalling. In cold dry air, not even feasible.
I've worked on two such systems, one commercial (for household use) and one military. The military unit came on a trailer and used a desiccant approach (like a large HVAC dehumidifier) which extended its operating range but it was still a huge energy pig.
For some situations you can justify it: remote military operations in dry country or disaster relief. The military looked at it like this: it cost them about the same to truck a gallon of water as a gallon of diesel. If you can make more than a gallon of water from a gallon of diesel it made sense to just truck one kind of fluid.
For solar applications you can sort of kinda justify it as long as the solar power has no other use. It takes a lot of area of solar panels to make significant amounts of water, and this precludes running at night when they're more efficient.
There have been lots of demonstration projects that made a trickle of water out of a lot of energy. The commercial product I worked on (turn of the century) and all its contemporary competitors are all out of business. This idea just won't die, much as it deserves to.
That does sound like a lot. If i recall correctly, a typical panel produces between 200 -500 watts? Thanks.
Panels come in all kinds of sizes, but optimal right now is about 400Watts and cost is ~ $0.50 - $0.65 per watt.
I grabbed the wrong line on my spreadsheet before (mid coffee, sorry), it's actually 15-20KWhr/ 40 gallons. There are different sizes and you can play around with scale and run time depending on your application. We are trying to get something that will run on excess solar production during the day to make enough water to sustain a household. Problem is at peak production for both water and solar, you want to run air conditioning in the house, so it's a balancing act of finding the margins.
I'm looking at these for an offgrid project I'm working on. These are very cool, but they are energy intensive. The model we are looking at is 40 gallons a day for about 50Kwhr power consumption. This varies a bit depending on temperature and humidity. We are intending to power it with solar, so the operational cost is small, but the capital cost to set it up is big (but will also support other electrical needs). A municipal model is much more efficient, but in places where there isn't sufficient infrastructure this is a great solution.
That does sound like a lot. If i recall correctly, a typical panel produces between 200 -500 watts? Thanks.
That's interesting. I wonder what the energy usage is, relative to H2O from the tap?
I'm looking at these for an offgrid project I'm working on. These are very cool, but they are energy intensive. The model we are looking at is 40 gallons a day for about 50Kwhr power consumption. This varies a bit depending on temperature and humidity. We are intending to power it with solar, so the operational cost is small, but the capital cost to set it up is big (but will also support other electrical needs). A municipal model is much more efficient, but in places where there isn't sufficient infrastructure this is a great solution.
So what you really should say is that as California goes to Hell so does the rest of the country. For the record I live in the northeast US. Unlike most of you left wing blood suckers I work for a living and just got back in town after being on the road for 2 weeks on business. Never been to Australia but I do travel to all 50 states, Canada, & Mexico. I have lived in Athens Greece for couple years as well. I occasionally check out this forum for laughs and this post seemed like a good one. Hey liberals, get out of your back yard, get a job, and go somewhere else and see how the rest of the world lives. And I don't mean on vacation. In most of the world you go to jail if you are in country illegally. You cannot work in other countries, such as Canada, if you are not a citizen. You cannot get welfare or any type of government aid in any other country if you are not a citizen. So why should anyone in the US, if they are a criminal, and being an illegal alien is criminal, be allowed to practice law. They ARE illegal themselves. Go chew on that all you liberal left wing socialist Marxists! BTW... is that a picture of a dead chicken?
Hard to know where to begin with this one, mister travels to all 50 states, Canada & Mexico, telling people to see how the rest of the world lives, but not on vacation.
So let's just stick to the topic at hand: He has been approved for residency. The problem is that it is taking the government decades to finish the paperwork. He is still in the USA, whether you like it or not. And that's why I'm saying he should be allowed to be a productive member of society (ok, practicing law isn't necessarily productive /jk) because his status is the government's failure.
It was a court ruling that he can get his law license, not some rando on the interweb.
He probably went to school funded by tax payers. And I also said "You cannot work in other countries, such as Canada, if you are not a citizen. You cannot get welfare or any type of government aid in any other country if you are not a citizen."
So what you really should say is that as California goes to Hell so does the rest of the country. For the record I live in the northeast US. Unlike most of you left wing blood suckers I work for a living and just got back in town after being on the road for 2 weeks on business. Never been to Australia but I do travel to all 50 states, Canada, & Mexico. I have lived in Athens Greece for couple years as well. I occasionally check out this forum for laughs and this post seemed like a good one. Hey liberals, get out of your back yard, get a job, and go somewhere else and see how the rest of the world lives. And I don't mean on vacation. In most of the world you go to jail if you are in country illegally. You cannot work in other countries, such as Canada, if you are not a citizen. You cannot get welfare or any type of government aid in any other country if you are not a citizen. So why should anyone in the US, if they are a criminal, and being an illegal alien is criminal, be allowed to practice law. They ARE illegal themselves. Go chew on that all you liberal left wing socialist Marxists! BTW... is that a picture of a dead chicken?
Hard to know where to begin with this one, mister travels to all 50 states, Canada & Mexico, telling people to see how the rest of the world lives, but not on vacation.
So let's just stick to the topic at hand: He has been approved for residency. The problem is that it is taking the government decades to finish the paperwork. He is still in the USA, whether you like it or not. And that's why I'm saying he should be allowed to be a productive member of society (ok, practicing law isn't necessarily productive /jk) because his status is the government's failure.
It was a court ruling that he can get his law license, not some rando on the interweb.
Well, you can simply take a flying leap at yourself.
It was you who dug up an 8 year old post to call me out on, out of the blue.
Why now and not then ?
I took you seriously and responded in a straight forward manner which is documented below.
I clearly explained my position then and now and you kept on insisting on redirecting what mattered to me and the reason for the initial post to what mattered to you.
Over and over.
And now this. Who is the fucking troll here ?
If you wanted my undies in a bunch, you sure tried real hard to do it. For your own personal amusement.
Bite me.
1) Didn't see it then or maybe just rolled my eyes. Now I decided it was worth a comment
2) Well my understanding of your issue with the ruling is that he shouldn't have been licensed to practice law because he was an immigrant from Mexico had not yet been issued a green card, even though he would get one if the government wasn't delaying and even though he had met all the other requirements. But that wasn't explicit in any of your posts. So if that's the case, my position is that the ruling was common sense, because why should his life be screwed up by government machinations? Yours appears to be it was ok that his life was screwed up because he's an immigrant. Did I get that right?
So to go back to what you said in response to my post
said it would use the case to determine whether illegal immigrants are eligible to become lawyers
The second bolded is what matters, not Mr Garcia's individual legal status that is still apparently in limbo after all of these years. Doesn't say much about his skills as a attorney, does it ? That aside, it still comes down to the bottom line. It is the actual headline that matters. Mr Garcia is just a player, the shiny object that distracts people from what matters most. Worked with you.
I repeatedly tried to get out of you why that headline matters (most) and why the consequences to someone's actual life don't matter to you.
Your repeatedly taking offense at my responding to an old post is deflection, nothing more.
So what you really should say is that as California goes to Hell so does the rest of the country. For the record I live in the northeast US. Unlike most of you left wing blood suckers I work for a living and just got back in town after being on the road for 2 weeks on business. Never been to Australia but I do travel to all 50 states, Canada, & Mexico. I have lived in Athens Greece for couple years as well. I occasionally check out this forum for laughs and this post seemed like a good one. Hey liberals, get out of your back yard, get a job, and go somewhere else and see how the rest of the world lives. And I don't mean on vacation. In most of the world you go to jail if you are in country illegally. You cannot work in other countries, such as Canada, if you are not a citizen. You cannot get welfare or any type of government aid in any other country if you are not a citizen. So why should anyone in the US, if they are a criminal, and being an illegal alien is criminal, be allowed to practice law. They ARE illegal themselves. Go chew on that all you liberal left wing socialist Marxists! BTW... is that a picture of a dead chicken?
Well, you can simply take a flying leap at yourself.
It was you who dug up an 8 year old post to call me out on, out of the blue.
Why now and not then ?
I took you seriously and responded in a straight forward manner which is documented below.
I clearly explained my position then and now and you kept on insisting on redirecting what mattered to me and the reason for the initial post to what mattered to you.
Over and over.
And now this. Who is the fucking troll here ?
If you wanted my undies in a bunch, you sure tried real hard to do it. For your own personal amusement.
Bite me.
1) Didn't see it then or maybe just rolled my eyes. Now I decided it was worth a comment
2) Well my understanding of your issue with the ruling is that he shouldn't have been licensed to practice law because he was an immigrant from Mexico had not yet been issued a green card, even though he would get one if the government wasn't delaying and even though he had met all the other requirements. But that wasn't explicit in any of your posts. So if that's the case, my position is that the ruling was common sense, because why should his life be screwed up by government machinations? Yours appears to be it was ok that his life was screwed up because he's an immigrant. Did I get that right?
So to go back to what you said in response to my post
said it would use the case to determine whether illegal immigrants are eligible to become lawyers
The second bolded is what matters, not Mr Garcia's individual legal status that is still apparently in limbo after all of these years. Doesn't say much about his skills as a attorney, does it ? That aside, it still comes down to the bottom line. It is the actual headline that matters. Mr Garcia is just a player, the shiny object that distracts people from what matters most. Worked with you.
I repeatedly tried to get out of you why that headline matters (most) and why the consequences to someone's actual life don't matter to you.
Your repeatedly taking offense at my responding to an old post is deflection, nothing more.
Eta: I don't usually fall for kurt's deflecting from the issues by making unrelated personal attacks but this one seemed like too much fun
Well, you can simply take a flying leap at yourself.
It was you who dug up an 8 year old post to call me out on, out of the blue.
Why now and not then ?
I took you seriously and responded in a straight forward manner which is documented below.
I clearly explained my position then and now and you kept on insisting on redirecting what mattered to me and the reason for the initial post to what mattered to you.
Over and over.
And now this. Who is the fucking troll here ?
If you wanted my undies in a bunch, you sure tried real hard to do it. For your own personal amusement.
Hard to know where to begin with this one, mister travels to all 50 states, Canada & Mexico, telling people to see how the rest of the world lives, but not on vacation.
