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Science Fiction Cliches come to life - GeneP59 - Nov 23, 2022 - 9:09am
 
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Things I Saw Today... - KurtfromLaQuinta - Nov 23, 2022 - 6:53am
 
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RP Song Comment Hall of Fame - Proclivities - Nov 22, 2022 - 12:43pm
 
Climate Change - Red_Dragon - Nov 22, 2022 - 6:59am
 
RP Team - thisbody - Nov 21, 2022 - 1:00pm
 
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ColdMiser

ColdMiser Avatar

Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 20, 2022 - 6:28am

 R_P wrote:
If the Great Salt Lake, which has already shrunk by two-thirds, continues to dry up, here’s what’s in store *:

The lake’s flies and brine shrimp would die off — scientists warn it could start as soon as this summer — threatening the 10 million migratory birds that stop at the lake annually to feed on the tiny creatures. Ski conditions at the resorts above Salt Lake City, a vital source of revenue, would deteriorate. The lucrative extraction of magnesium and other minerals from the lake could stop.

Most alarming, the air surrounding Salt Lake City would occasionally turn poisonous. The lake bed contains high levels of arsenic and as more of it becomes exposed, wind storms carry that arsenic into the lungs of nearby residents, who make up three-quarters of Utah’s population.

“We have this potential environmental nuclear bomb that’s going to go off if we don’t take some pretty dramatic action,” said Joel Ferry, a Republican state lawmaker and rancher who lives on the north side of the lake.

As climate change continues to cause record-breaking drought, there are no easy solutions. Saving the Great Salt Lake would require letting more snowmelt from the mountains flow to the lake, which means less water for residents and farmers. That would threaten the region’s breakneck population growth and high-value agriculture — something state leaders seem reluctant to do. (...)


So where is Mitt in all this? I guess he can afford his own Brine Shrimp and doesn't care.


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 19, 2022 - 12:35pm

If the Great Salt Lake, which has already shrunk by two-thirds, continues to dry up, here’s what’s in store *:

The lake’s flies and brine shrimp would die off — scientists warn it could start as soon as this summer — threatening the 10 million migratory birds that stop at the lake annually to feed on the tiny creatures. Ski conditions at the resorts above Salt Lake City, a vital source of revenue, would deteriorate. The lucrative extraction of magnesium and other minerals from the lake could stop.

Most alarming, the air surrounding Salt Lake City would occasionally turn poisonous. The lake bed contains high levels of arsenic and as more of it becomes exposed, wind storms carry that arsenic into the lungs of nearby residents, who make up three-quarters of Utah’s population.

“We have this potential environmental nuclear bomb that’s going to go off if we don’t take some pretty dramatic action,” said Joel Ferry, a Republican state lawmaker and rancher who lives on the north side of the lake.

As climate change continues to cause record-breaking drought, there are no easy solutions. Saving the Great Salt Lake would require letting more snowmelt from the mountains flow to the lake, which means less water for residents and farmers. That would threaten the region’s breakneck population growth and high-value agriculture — something state leaders seem reluctant to do. (...)

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2022 - 8:40am

 rgio wrote:

Agree with your comments...but here's the issue for coal... 2022 global employment stats by industry...

Global Consumer Electronics Manufacturing 17,430,9422.
Global Commercial Real Estate 17,164,7103.
Global Fast Food Restaurants 13,458,1464.
Global HR & Recruitment Services 11,988,3765.
Global Apparel Manufacturing 9,675,6726.
Global Hotels & Resorts 9,517,4627.

Global Coal Mining 8,918,4898.

Global Tourism 8,684,6449.
Global Commercial Banks 8,076,79610.
Global Auto Parts & Accessories Manufacturing 8,060,047

9M people and all of those who know/depend on them is a lot.



sure, but coal wouldn't be the first industry to become obsolete. And there are a lot of jobs going out there at the moment.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2022 - 8:20am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


Pretty damning judgment on German policies, but he is certainly right on the geography matters point. I am kind of hoping that the widespread fear of nuclear in Germany diminishes this year as we come up against hard realities. Coal is literally the pits. 

Agree with your comments...but here's the issue for coal... 2022 global employment stats by industry...

Global Consumer Electronics Manufacturing 17,430,9422.
Global Commercial Real Estate 17,164,7103.
Global Fast Food Restaurants 13,458,1464.
Global HR & Recruitment Services 11,988,3765.
Global Apparel Manufacturing 9,675,6726.
Global Hotels & Resorts 9,517,4627.

Global Coal Mining 8,918,4898.

Global Tourism 8,684,6449.
Global Commercial Banks 8,076,79610.
Global Auto Parts & Accessories Manufacturing 8,060,047

9M people and all of those who know/depend on them is a lot.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2022 - 7:07am

 miamizsun wrote:

this could have worked in several forums/threads
this one was on the raft




Pretty damning judgment on German policies, but he is certainly right on the geography matters point. I am kind of hoping that the widespread fear of nuclear in Germany diminishes this year as we come up against hard realities. Coal is literally the pits. 
There are a lot of local solutions and much better building technology (which he didn't touch on). A lot of new houses have a zero energy budget, yes, even here in Germany. Ours is new but not zero but we can live pretty comfortably on 10000 kWh p.a. (includes heating and powering all our appliances) which is in the ball park of a decent wind generator or two (helps that we live on the top of an exposed hill).
edit: btw we don't need AC here, even today (99°F outside) as our house has a green roof and 8" of insulation in the cladding. 

miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2022 - 6:21am

this could have worked in several forums/threads
this one was on the raft


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2022 - 3:15am

 steeler wrote:

Agreed. Those who have been fighting against any transition away from fossil fuels, or dragging their feet on it, have no credibility when talking about the proper speed of the transition. Those who are climate change deniers/skeptics would not see any urgency to making the transition — assuming they see any reason at all for doing so. 



taking a local sample of neighbours, it looks like the war in Ukraine has given renewables a huge shot in the arm. Most of us are reliant on gas-fired heating and are hurriedly looking at what alternatives we have to have a modicum of warmth this coming winter in case the gas lines are shut down. Lots of solar/wind combinations getting installed around here. No one gives a shit anymore about whether the solution is economic. We just want a solution so we don't freeze. 
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 8:00pm

 haresfur wrote:

So after over a decade of opposing doing anything at any pace to address climate change because of being a denier skeptic, now we can't do anything because it would be too fast. That type of thinking is responsible for the current situation. We could have managed the change before we were fucked. 

Every country can figure out a way to say that they aren't the real problem. Australia claims correctly that our greenhouse gas emissions are minor compared to other countries. Never mind that our per capita emissions are about the highest in the world. No, one person turning down a thermostat won't get to the desired result sooner, but everyone doing a little bit will reduce the emissions so reduce the rate of increase until the world gets it shit together. And it isn't only about the actual production rate change - part of the inefficiency is having to size power plants for peak usage and cutting the peaks is important. Not being able to meet a target is no excuse for not reducing emissions.

It really pisses me off to see the moving narrative of people who want to push out dealing with the problem. The former Australian government pushed the time frame for meeting emission targets way out into the future. That sucked but then they didn't even start doing anything to meet that time frame. So the target was total bullshit designed to keep from having to do anything to transition away from fossil fuels.


Agreed. Those who have been fighting against any transition away from fossil fuels, or dragging their feet on it, have no credibility when talking about the proper speed of the transition. Those who are climate change deniers/skeptics would not see any urgency to making the transition — assuming they see any reason at all for doing so. 

haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 7:51pm

 kurtster wrote:
It doesn't matter if Climate Change is real or if it is a hoax. We can only get so far so fast, safely. This is the same kind of thinking that if I set the thermostat lower it will get to the desired less cooler temp sooner.

So after over a decade of opposing doing anything at any pace to address climate change because of being a denier skeptic, now we can't do anything because it would be too fast. That type of thinking is responsible for the current situation. We could have managed the change before we were fucked. 

Every country can figure out a way to say that they aren't the real problem. Australia claims correctly that our greenhouse gas emissions are minor compared to other countries. Never mind that our per capita emissions are about the highest in the world. No, one person turning down a thermostat won't get to the desired result sooner, but everyone doing a little bit will reduce the emissions so reduce the rate of increase until the world gets it shit together. And it isn't only about the actual production rate change - part of the inefficiency is having to size power plants for peak usage and cutting the peaks is important. Not being able to meet a target is no excuse for not reducing emissions.

It really pisses me off to see the moving narrative of people who want to push out dealing with the problem. The former Australian government pushed the time frame for meeting emission targets way out into the future. That sucked but then they didn't even start doing anything to meet that time frame. So the target was total bullshit designed to keep from having to do anything to transition away from fossil fuels.

black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 11:42am

 islander wrote:

See, there's your problem. Most people don't really care about helping humanity. Can you show how it will help me personally? And really, just me, I don't want to be spending any resource helping those 'other' people.  In fact, if you could show that it would hold them back a bit while letting me race ahead I would happily sign on to that program. 

Sure, but maybe folks aren't all about nihilism? 
But if they are...cheaper fuel bills, fewer health issues/cheaper health premiums, look out the window and no smog...

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 10:57am

 black321 wrote:


You are not arguing against my points, as much as the fringe left that wants to stop oil now.
So you appear argue, let's keep the status quo and ignore the problems it causes.

My argument is, lets develop a solid plan to transition to cheaper, clean, more efficient energy, 
that will have less of an impact on the environment, 
and perhaps more importantly help humanity (by reducing the health impacts and providing them with appropriate energy resources and boosting their quality of life). 



See, there's your problem. Most people don't really care about helping humanity. Can you show how it will help me personally? And really, just me, I don't want to be spending any resource helping those 'other' people.  In fact, if you could show that it would hold them back a bit while letting me race ahead I would happily sign on to that program. 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 10:24am


black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 8:42am

 kurtster wrote:


You are not arguing against my points, as much as the fringe left that wants to stop oil now.
So you appear argue, let's keep the status quo and ignore the problems it causes.

My argument is, lets develop a solid plan to transition to cheaper, clean, more efficient energy, 
that will have less of an impact on the environment, 
and perhaps more importantly help humanity (by reducing the health impacts and providing them with appropriate energy resources and boosting their quality of life). 


Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 7:41am

 ColdMiser wrote:

Seems to me that with the evenly divided Senate and Manchin being Manchin that any progress on this issue is if the Republican party stops treating this like a third rail. What it will take for that to happen is anyone's guess. But I'd drop some of my hard earned $ in the donation hat for an organization that is working to that end. 



I just chuckled to myself thinking of someone donating bitcoin to an environmental cause, after having burned a city block’s worth of electricity to mine a piece of a coin.
ColdMiser

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Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2022 - 6:23am

Seems to me that with the evenly divided Senate and Manchin being Manchin that any progress on this issue is if the Republican party stops treating this like a third rail. What it will take for that to happen is anyone's guess. But I'd drop some of my hard earned $ in the donation hat for an organization that is working to that end. 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 11:51am

United Kingdom issues first Red Extreme heat warning
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 16, 2022 - 10:40pm

Denial was the old delay.

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 16, 2022 - 10:22pm

 R_P wrote:
Delay is the new denial.
 
Ain't denying nothing.
.
 kurtster wrote:
It doesn't matter if Climate Change is real or if it is a hoax.  We can only get so far so fast, safely. 
 
So what's your plan and how fast can you get us there ?  I'm sure you have a copy and paste answer sitting handy.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 16, 2022 - 10:12pm

Delay is the new denial.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 16, 2022 - 10:01pm

 black321 wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
here's something for all you greenies to chew on ... stop using oil is going to kill us all faster and surer than not stopping using oil. .
{#Cowboy}

Even if one assumes climate change is a hoax,
why wouldn't we want cheap, efficient, clean energy
that would benefit not only the country, 
but also the global environment, 
providing resources to the billions in poverty,
and promoting global stability? (p.s., gotta love your half-cocked, half-baked conversation starters)
 
Yeah, it this one was delivered at the end of an episode of the blue screen of death on my 13 year old Windows 7 Dell.  My primary innernet puter.  Reboot, scan, wait, reboot, scan, wait reboot, blue screen.  Pulling hard drives, formatting spares and rescuing critical stuff. I'm on the wife's right now.  Already replaced it, still in the box after 30 hours.  Now I have to configure a brand new one with Windows 11 of which I an totally clueless and still not liking and barely functioning in Windows 10 on the wife's and the ones at work.  So yeah ...

Well anyway ... We are not ready to transition, not even close to ready, yet the push is in high gear without regard to any consequences.  Very recently we went from ...

Gas too high ?  Buy an electric car, that will fix everything. To don't plug your car in during peak demand to keep the grid from crashing.

Huh ?  

The crazies who glued themselves to an oil painting and scrawled "NO MORE OIL" on it.  I bet they would be naked if  they took off everything that they had on that was made from a petroleum product.

It doesn't matter if Climate Change is real or if it is a hoax.  We can only get so far so fast, safely.  This is the same kind of thinking that if I set the thermostat lower it will get to the desired less cooler temp sooner.

No, it is going to take the same time to get to that temp regardless how low you set the thermostat.

NO MORE OIL sounds pretty flipping urgent, immediate and impatient.  According to AOC and her friends, we have 8 years left.  Well unless we keep oil in the equation, we ain't gonna make it that far anyway. 

We get 82% of our energy needs from hydrocarbons.  The best renewables can get to is 25% by 2030.  And they are by design, not reliable, being entirely dependent on weather conditions.

While you may understand that oil is still needed regardless, these people do not and by reading stuff here, most here seem to think the same.

That was my point.
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