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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 23, 24, 25  Next
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nuggler

nuggler Avatar

Location: RU Sirius ?
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 22, 2011 - 5:49pm




"The nuclear bomb, does that bother you? I just want you to think big, Henry, for chrissakes. The only place where you and I disagree is with regard to the bombing. You’re so goddamned concerned about civilians, and I don’t give a damn. I don’t care." ~ Nixon to Kissinger April 25, 1972

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 22, 2011 - 4:39pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

If the claims are true (99.5% efficiency, use of spent fuel from water-cooled reactors, nuclear waste with a half-life of 200 years, enough fuel already there (i.e. no new mining) for a thousand or more years), then we don't need to wait for fusion... or at the least it will give us another 1000 years development time..
Sounds pretty good to me!
 
There are some pretty decent reviews on Blees book on Amazon as well.

I don't know enough about this subject and I'd like to read his book, however my reading list is six books on my desk right now.

Regards

MrsHobieJoe

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Location: somewhere in Europe
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 22, 2011 - 11:28am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Georges Monbiot has really put the cat among the pigeons today with his article favoring nuclear power.

Before everyone starts ditching the idea of nuclear power, take a look at this design and I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me what the drawbacks are..

(I know there must be some but the concept looks damn good to me. The danger in this is that I am neither an engineer nor a physicist so I'm not really qualified to judge)

 

Yes, I read the article in the Guardian today.

My only comment is about the title of the thread- why does it have to be "saviour or scourge?"- this isn't the X factor.  It's a useful tool but not without some significant drawbacks.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 22, 2011 - 11:15am

Georges Monbiot has really put the cat among the pigeons today with his article favoring nuclear power.

Before everyone starts ditching the idea of nuclear power, take a look at this design and I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me what the drawbacks are..

(I know there must be some but the concept looks damn good to me. The danger in this is that I am neither an engineer nor a physicist so I'm not really qualified to judge)
(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Location: hotel in Las Vegas
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 20, 2011 - 3:04pm



nuclear emergency plan

 

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 10:10pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

huge manatees all over the place?
 

snerk.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 10:09pm

 islander wrote:

one word: Balloons.

 
huge manatees all over the place?

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 9:49pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
The other thing that excites me about some of these GenIV designs is that they can be used to produce hydrogen thermochemically in addition to the electricity they produce.

I know hydrogen has major problems all of its own (transport, storage, etc.) but at least it's clean.

 
one word: Balloons.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 9:29pm

The other thing that excites me about some of these GenIV designs is that they can be used to produce hydrogen thermochemically in addition to the electricity they produce.

I know hydrogen has major problems all of its own (transport, storage, etc.) but at least it's clean.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 8:06pm

 cptbuz wrote:
I hate getting involved in these discussions but...

I have been inspecting nuke plants for over 20 years, to me they are a safe and viable energy option. One of the big concerns that people bring up is what to do about the radiological waste. By far the majority (volume-wise) of radioactive waste produced at a nuke plant is very low level contaminated trash. The good news is that over the past 20 years the amount of contaminated trash created at nuke plants has dropped significantly through better planning, the reuse of materials/tools etc. in contaminated areas. The source of high level waste is spent fuel. Sites have spent fuel storage pools, but they are fast filling up (due to operating license extentions). Dry cask storage, an above ground shielded storage 'pod', allows for safe on-site storage of spent fuel and is a system used at many sites already. Dry cask storage has created a public uproar at some sites that could potentially cause a plant to shutdown prior to the end of its licensing.

Many people argue that wind and solar are "green" energy sources while nuke power, because of the waste and potential of contamination, should not be considered 'green'.  What these arguements don't consider is the climate damage created in the manufacture of items such as fiberglass for fan blades of a wind farm, or manufacture of the panels for solar collectors. Yes, the concrete and steel used in the manufacture of a nuke plant adds a size or two to the ol' carbon foot print too, but unlike wind and solar farms, the concrete structures of a nuke plant do not need to be routinely replaced.

Finally, ground has been broken in the U.S. for a new nuke plant @ the Vogtle site in Georgia. The hope is for the new unit (one of 7 planned in the US) to be on the grid by 2017...and one last thing, nuclear power plants are not run by baffoons as depicted in movies like 'China System', or  (UGH!) the made for TV abomination 'Atomic Twister'.
 

I'm glad you joined the discussion cptbuz! What is your opinion on fast breeders? Are their claims realistic?
They seem to have pretty good fail-safes built into them and the waste has a half-life of 200 years (or low level for hundreds of thousands but so low it's not a major issue).  I don't know why we are wringing our hands looking for alternative energy sources to replace fossil fuels when this technology is just sitting there unused.

geoff_morphini

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 8:44am

 Beaker wrote:

Buffoons

China Syndrome


 
I'm a nuclear inspector Jim, not a proofreader!

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 8:40am

 cptbuz wrote:
I hate getting involved in these discussions but...

I have been inspecting nuke plants for over 20 years,
 
Nice to hear from someone who is intimately involved with existing facilities. Thank you.

cptbuz

cptbuz Avatar

Location: Sacramento CA
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 8:38am

 Beaker wrote:

Buffoons

China Syndrome


 

damn decaf!
cptbuz

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Location: Sacramento CA
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 8:22am

I hate getting involved in these discussions but...

I have been inspecting nuke plants for over 20 years, to me they are a safe and viable energy option. One of the big concerns that people bring up is what to do about the radiological waste. By far the majority (volume-wise) of radioactive waste produced at a nuke plant is very low level contaminated trash. The good news is that over the past 20 years the amount of contaminated trash created at nuke plants has dropped significantly through better planning, the reuse of materials/tools etc. in contaminated areas. The source of high level waste is spent fuel. Sites have spent fuel storage pools, but they are fast filling up (due to operating license extentions). Dry cask storage, an above ground shielded storage 'pod', allows for safe on-site storage of spent fuel and is a system used at many sites already. Dry cask storage has created a public uproar at some sites that could potentially cause a plant to shutdown prior to the end of its licensing.

Many people argue that wind and solar are "green" energy sources while nuke power, because of the waste and potential of contamination, should not be considered 'green'.  What these arguements don't consider is the climate damage created in the manufacture of items such as fiberglass for fan blades of a wind farm, or manufacture of the panels for solar collectors. Yes, the concrete and steel used in the manufacture of a nuke plant adds a size or two to the ol' carbon foot print too, but unlike wind and solar farms, the concrete structures of a nuke plant do not need to be routinely replaced.

Finally, ground has been broken in the U.S. for a new nuke plant @ the Vogtle site in Georgia. The hope is for the new unit (one of 7 planned in the US) to be on the grid by 2017...and one last thing, nuclear power plants are not run by baffoons as depicted in movies like 'China System', or  (UGH!) the made for TV abomination 'Atomic Twister'.

laozilover

laozilover Avatar

Location: K Town (Kenosha, Wisconsin)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2009 - 4:15am

The discussion so far seems pretty reasonable.  Is this RP??? I read Beaker's link and the Wikipedia article on the IFR. Looks like the IFR wins on points. Nice to see both PEAK OIL and Global Warming taken seriously, even tacitly.

Thanks for the topic, Beaker.
{#Clap}


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2009 - 9:33pm

 miamizsun wrote:
Savior.

We'll need it.

Does anyone know anything about this:

Prescription For The Planet

here's some video:


 
far out.. they are pretty amazing claims! Here's the wiki entry on it.

I remember the fast breeder project getting cancelled in Germany in the nineties although I do seem to remember that a lot of the reservations were technical rather than political.

Still, I'm with James Lovelock, I think it is high-time we put nuclear power back on the agenda. It is certainly not the only solution and I would love investment in "cleaner" technologies to mushroom, like that osmosis power plant Hazzeswede posted a link to, and solar, but time is running out and we have to get away from fossil fuels and the faster the better.

Unfortunately, Lazy is also right when he describes the Luddites behind the anti-nuclear movement back in the day. I remember it well. Very very few in the movement actually knew what they were talking about and 3 mile island and Chernobyl sealed the fate of the entire industry in the public's eye. A great shame because it has cost us a good 20 years of pursuing technologies like this.

If the claims are true (99.5% efficiency, use of spent fuel from water-cooled reactors, nuclear waste with a half-life of 200 years, enough fuel already there (i.e. no new mining) for a thousand or more years), then we don't need to wait for fusion... or at the least it will give us another 1000 years development time..
Sounds pretty good to me!

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2009 - 8:37pm

Savior.

We'll need it.

Does anyone know anything about this:

Prescription For The Planet

here's some video:



islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2009 - 5:39pm

 dionysius wrote:


I just want a bigger effort made towards fusion (with solar, geothermal and wind energy utilized as stopgaps until such time as it is feasible). Then we can abandon the poisonous carbon and fission technologies altogether.

 
okay, and reasonable. But given the demand, and the increase in demand between now and when when fusion becomes viable, how do we support the increased system load? Solar, wind, geothermal, tidal ect. will help, but even with support that they are not likely to get near term they are only pieces of the whole solution, that also include conservation and systemic shifts in usage.  That really leaves fission and fossil as the only proven things on the table that can scale to meet the demands. I"m all for the experimental too, but we need a plan B (or really a plan A while we hope one of the experiments pans out). And since we know that fossil just exacerbates the problems... well, that leaves nuclear - which is pretty well proven and would probably be saving our bacon already had we not had such high profile problems as 3 mile island and Chernobyl.

dionysius

dionysius Avatar

Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2009 - 5:29pm

 islander wrote:

I like this analogy. But I'm surprised that given your view of climate change (a correct one I think) that you are worried about this. We have a far better chance of figuring out what to do with/how to properly label nuclear waste if we use this tool to fix the larger climate problem. Else the ensuing climate catastrophe/flood/famine/riots/ handfull will render our current nuclear sites (and possibly melted down nuclear plants, and piles of nuclear weapons) just as much a future landmine for whatever species manages to figure out how to survive the new environment we create.

I think it's even more shortsighted to wait for a better solution while plunging headlong into the void. Do what we can when we can.

 

I just want a bigger effort made towards fusion (with solar, geothermal and wind energy utilized as stopgaps until such time as it is feasible). Then we can abandon the poisonous carbon and fission technologies altogether.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2009 - 5:26pm

 dionysius wrote:


The rewards of a successful R&D effort towards commercially viable fusion would indeed be very great (some of that research is going on right here at UT Austin). But the economics of this R&D still just don't make sense for private utilities and energy companies. Exxon-Mobil and BP would just not be making the same kind of record profits selling ultracheap fusion kilowatts than it would selling post-peak oil to the carbon junkie market. Why throw their money after it. when the public sector is doing the work for them? As one might expect, the international public/university consortium ITER in France are out front in fusion research, and might have something online by 2050. Still a wait, but within the lifetimes of many now living. This will change the game entirely.  

And I'm astonished to see that you think storage of fission waste is mostly political. Even finding the right geology to store waste for millennia and millennia is a challenge, and it will remain a poisonous reminder of our short-sightedness into a distant future we can't even imagine. This would be like stepping on landmines left by the Sumerians, only over an even greater timeline.

 
I like this analogy. But I'm surprised that given your view of climate change (a correct one I think) that you are worried about this. We have a far better chance of figuring out what to do with/how to properly label nuclear waste if we use this tool to fix the larger climate problem. Else the ensuing climate catastrophe/flood/famine/riots/ handfull will render our current nuclear sites (and possibly melted down nuclear plants, and piles of nuclear weapons) just as much a future landmine for whatever species manages to figure out how to survive the new environment we create.

I think it's even more shortsighted to wait for a better solution while plunging headlong into the void. Do what we can when we can.


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