Disagree. Yes, the conventional wisdom is to constantly make noise. If you are going to follow that wisdom it is likely to better to put pebbles in a tin can and tie it to your waist, or use some other source of constant noise.
Among many other problems, the primary problem with motor-mouthing as a bear deterrent is that people get tired of hiking and singing or talking at the same time and unless they stop hiking, they will stop motor-mouthing because it takes too much effort. Motor-mouthing increases the probability of falling and hurting oneself but perhaps that is a separate discussion.
I mean, that's what I said, but okay.
The point was that if I have a choice between a chatty person and another person like me, I should go with the chatty person. Of course all the other things apply.
A constant motormouth is ideal. The problem is when people are hiking they tend to fall silent, get lost in their own thoughts. We always sang, that at least keeps some noise up and you don't have to really think of anything new to say. But it helps if you have more than one song that you all know the words to. Spent an entire week singing "Is She Really Going Out With Him?" ......
Disagree. Yes, the conventional wisdom is to constantly make noise. If you are going to follow that wisdom it is likely to better to put pebbles in a tin can and tie it to your waist, or use some other source of constant noise.
Among many other problems, the primary problem with motor-mouthing as a bear deterrent is that people get tired of hiking and singing or talking at the same time and unless they stop hiking, they will stop motor-mouthing because it takes too much effort. Motor-mouthing increases the probability of falling and hurting oneself but perhaps that is a separate discussion.
My approach is not at all dogmatic. If in dense undergrowth or a new post-burn young forest or near a noisy creek especially where I cannot see well, I make noise. I make a low woofing sound just like a Griz who feels territorially nervous and I sometimes pound my chest with a flat hand. Both noise-making techniques avoid sucking the wind out of me.
Yes, I am trying to alert the bear and perhaps provoke a reaction. Either the bear moves away or it comes close. In either scenario, it allows me to learn of the bear's presence. The bear may stay put but at least it will not be surprised by my presence. Surprises are best avoided.
That is not all. I also look for scat, hair, claw marks, tracks, and popular paths or Bear Highways as I like to call them. In the context of coastal streams I look for salmon that have been dragged away from the river and possibly cached. If berries are present, I look for signs of harvesting. Almost forgot. Being constantly aware of wind direction or air movement direction is also valuable. Bear eyesight is awful, the hearing is ordinary and the sense of smell is terrific.
The more information the better.
Griz (less so Black bears) are most often incredibly noisy animals. If one pays close enough attention, the bear(s) can be heard covering ground or feeding from a considerable distance.
Good read. The bear is a bloody celebrity! And apparently has grown accustomed to humans in a 'good way'.
SFW: Earlier you wrote that the bears are "over-populated". I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Given that you live in or near Jackson Hole, I would say the humans are overpopulated, and stretched too far into the Grizzly habitat.
FWIW, the following is my opinion that happens to be widely shared by hunters and some backcountry travellers here in BC:
The big difference over time is the de facto hunting moratorium on Grizzly bears. Grizzly bears tend to lose their shyness and become more aggressive towards humans in the absence of hunting.
That is the reason why I would pack not one but two canisters of pepper spray if I were to hike the high country in the Rockies. (I no longer bother to carry pepper spray on familiar coastal streams.) That is the reason why I would be very fussy about my company going into such areas. I would scrupulously avoid going with nervous folks who would a) constantly motor-mouth, b) never look or listen, and c) panic flee at the sight of a Grizzly.
P.S. A good friend of mine grew up in Illinois. He is 6'7", and he is the gentlest high school teacher that you could imagine. He loves saying "Yo Mama!" in and out of context where it may or may not be relevant. And yes, on a serious note, I agree that it is not a good idea to anthropomorphize these deadly creatures.
Their density in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem is somewhat greater than the ecosystem can currently support, what with the decline of the moth larvae and carrion. Which forces them to expand their range. You're not wrong about the people problem but that's a different issue. The insects may rebound or be replaced by something else in their diet and the elk population will too, eventually, although they're starting to see Chronic Wasting Disease in them so it may take a few human generations.
The hunting thing is definitely prevailing wisdom here, too, and I don't disagree. As that article mentioned, 399 seems to be teaching her cubs how to look both ways before they cross a highway ... that and hunting would seem to be lessons learned only through firsthand experience but maybe there's something to it.
A constant motormouth is ideal. The problem is when people are hiking they tend to fall silent, get lost in their own thoughts. We always sang, that at least keeps some noise up and you don't have to really think of anything new to say. But it helps if you have more than one song that you all know the words to. Spent an entire week singing "Is She Really Going Out With Him?"
Good read. The bear is a bloody celebrity! And apparently has grown accustomed to humans in a 'good way'.
SFW: Earlier you wrote that the bears are "over-populated". I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Given that you live in or near Jackson Hole, I would say the humans are overpopulated, and stretched too far into the Grizzly habitat.
FWIW, the following is my opinion that happens to be widely shared by hunters and some backcountry travellers here in BC:
The big difference over time is the de facto hunting moratorium on Grizzly bears. Grizzly bears tend to lose their shyness and become more aggressive towards humans in the absence of hunting.
That is the reason why I would pack not one but two canisters of pepper spray if I were to hike the high country in the Rockies. (I no longer bother to carry pepper spray on familiar coastal streams.) That is the reason why I would be very fussy about my company going into such areas. I would scrupulously avoid going with nervous folks who would a) constantly motor-mouth, b) never look or listen, and c) panic flee at the sight of a Grizzly.
——————————————————————————
P.S. A good friend of mine grew up in Illinois. He is 6'7", and he is the gentlest high school teacher that you could imagine. He loves saying "Yo Mama!" in and out of context where it may or may not be relevant. And yes, on a serious note, I agree that it is not a good idea to anthropomorphize these deadly creatures.
"Sweet mama!" bear, or "Yo mama!" bear. 399? Doesn't quite cut it.
Numbering has been the policy for about 40 or 50 years. A, it helps keep them straight and B, it was supposed to help cut down on anthropomorphizationacling them. But say "3ninetynine" around here and you'll get an appropriate "awwww" response. She's like 27 years old and has four cubs! Who've so far survived. This wikipedia entry is subpar as far as wiki style goes, but it has a lot of background.
That photo was a year or 2 before that guy's attack, but it was the same area/trail. Not sure what Crosby was up to, but hiccup was prowling around off-trail early in the morning, sans bear spray. I didn't catch this particular sighting, but did see the bear later in the day. Probably the largest sow I've ever seen.
Ah. Still makes you go eek.
In other news, Bear 399 is super old and has started raiding the townâI expected she would as she found it more difficult to provide for her brood. Her 4 nearly 2-year-old cubs are still with her too, so they're learning all the wrong things. I get that it's a national park but they really need to swoop in and move them all right now to someplace den-worthy and hope they go their separate ways in the spring. Oh I guess they're hazing them out of town. Okay.
Location: right behind you. no, over there. Gender:
Posted:
Nov 11, 2021 - 8:53am
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
ptooey wrote:
Hey, you wanna see a pic of what is very likely the same griz referenced above?
courtesy of someone's lunatic spouse.
Yeah I thought you'd said you were on that trail a few days earlier. Spooky. Lunatic spouse however wasn't probably running off-trail thru the underbrush, wasn't that what this guy was doing?
That photo was a year or 2 before that guy's attack, but it was the same area/trail. Not sure what Crosby was up to, but hiccup was prowling around off-trail early in the morning, sans bear spray. I didn't catch this particular sighting, but did see the bear later in the day. Probably the largest sow I've ever seen.
Hey, you wanna see a pic of what is very likely the same griz referenced above?
courtesy of someone's lunatic spouse.
Yeah I thought you'd said you were on that trail a few days earlier. Spooky. Lunatic spouse however wasn't probably running off-trail thru the underbrush, wasn't that what this guy was doing?
Location: right behind you. no, over there. Gender:
Posted:
Nov 10, 2021 - 1:29pm
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:
paywalled
Evidence at the scene suggests that the fatal grizzly attack in Yellowstone National Park in August happened suddenly and that the Montana man who was killed died where he was first attacked.
Details on the death of Lance Crosby, 63, were released Thursday by the National Park Service. An investigation report says that Crosby’s body was found less than a third of a mile from the trail on Elephant Back Mountain, with little blood at the scene or other evidence of a drawn-out struggle.
“There were no drag trails, bear trails, disturbed ground indicating an attack path, flight or a struggle, blood spatter, clothing fragments, or personal possessions found outside of the body burial cache,” Yellowstone wildlife biologist Kerry Gunther wrote in a forensic evidence report. “The absence of a clear attack path and blood spatter trail combined with Mr. Crosby’s ball cap being found within 3 feet of his left foot suggests that the initial contact by the bear occurred at the location where the body was found.”
...
etc.
Hey, you wanna see a pic of what is very likely the same griz referenced above?
Gruesome subject I'll leave alone after this: I mean you could look it up; I'm sure you'll find I'm right. If not, hey we both learned something. Anecdotally: Here is one instance that springs to mind. Rare, yes, but the caching behavior is pretty well documented I believe. There's another case where the ranger discussing the case was shockingly blunt about how the victim was eviscerated, cached, then died. I know two people personally who had their faces ripped off. Not sure how we got onto this but I feel attacked for some reason. Bears are dangerous. I love the video but would Be The Fuck Out of There ASAP.
Gated. Black, Griz?
Hey, did you know that Griz will work a human's backbone, slowly and deliberately crunching it as they move up and down? Happens all the time. I am sure you can look it up.
Evidence at the scene suggests that the fatal grizzly attack in Yellowstone National Park in August happened suddenly and that the Montana man who was killed died where he was first attacked.
Details on the death of Lance Crosby, 63, were released Thursday by the National Park Service. An investigation report says that Crosbyâs body was found less than a third of a mile from the trail on Elephant Back Mountain, with little blood at the scene or other evidence of a drawn-out struggle.
âThere were no drag trails, bear trails, disturbed ground indicating an attack path, flight or a struggle, blood spatter, clothing fragments, or personal possessions found outside of the body burial cache,â Yellowstone wildlife biologist Kerry Gunther wrote in a forensic evidence report. âThe absence of a clear attack path and blood spatter trail combined with Mr. Crosbyâs ball cap being found within 3 feet of his left foot suggests that the initial contact by the bear occurred at the location where the body was found.â
...
etc.
I grew up with a kid who was attacked by a bear when his family was camping. They were just tent camping and a bear came into their campground in the middle of the night and tore them all up. My friend's face was hash. So... yeah.
Gruesome subject I'll leave alone after this: I mean you could look it up; I'm sure you'll find I'm right. If not, hey we both learned something. Anecdotally: Here is one instance that springs to mind. Rare, yes, but the caching behavior is pretty well documented I believe. There's another case where the ranger discussing the case was shockingly blunt about how the victim was eviscerated, cached, then died. I know two people personally who had their faces ripped off. Not sure how we got onto this but I feel attacked for some reason. Bears are dangerous. I love the video but would Be The Fuck Out of There ASAP.
Manbum started it with his manbear schtick. I'm innocent I tell ya. I was being nice and everything. Then he started buggin'...
Evidence at the scene suggests that the fatal grizzly attack in Yellowstone National Park in August happened suddenly and that the Montana man who was killed died where he was first attacked.
Details on the death of Lance Crosby, 63, were released Thursday by the National Park Service. An investigation report says that Crosbyâs body was found less than a third of a mile from the trail on Elephant Back Mountain, with little blood at the scene or other evidence of a drawn-out struggle.
âThere were no drag trails, bear trails, disturbed ground indicating an attack path, flight or a struggle, blood spatter, clothing fragments, or personal possessions found outside of the body burial cache,â Yellowstone wildlife biologist Kerry Gunther wrote in a forensic evidence report. âThe absence of a clear attack path and blood spatter trail combined with Mr. Crosbyâs ball cap being found within 3 feet of his left foot suggests that the initial contact by the bear occurred at the location where the body was found.â
Gruesome subject I'll leave alone after this: I mean you could look it up; I'm sure you'll find I'm right. If not, hey we both learned something. Anecdotally: Here is one instance that springs to mind. Rare, yes, but the caching behavior is pretty well documented I believe. There's another case where the ranger discussing the case was shockingly blunt about how the victim was eviscerated, cached, then died. I know two people personally who had their faces ripped off. Not sure how we got onto this but I feel attacked for some reason. Bears are dangerous. I love the video but would Be The Fuck Out of There ASAP.
Gruesome subject I'll leave alone after this: I mean you could look it up; I'm sure you'll find I'm right. If not, hey we both learned something. Anecdotally: Here is one instance that springs to mind. Rare, yes, but the caching behavior is pretty well documented I believe. There's another case where the ranger discussing the case was shockingly blunt about how the victim was eviscerated, cached, then died. I know two people personally who had their faces ripped off. Not sure how we got onto this but I feel attacked for some reason. Bears are dangerous. I love the video but would Be The Fuck Out of There ASAP.
Set aside half an hour. I wouldn't want to rely on my "understanding" of bears (see also the guy a few years ago who got et) but this is still pretty cool. Bears are neat.
I'm not crying.... YOU'RE crying..... this is SO COOL.... Thank you.
Would guess that in your area Scott, people are sloppy with food and garbage. Some probably think it is cute to feed the bears. And yes, 'habituated bears' can be dangerous.
Black bears will predate on humans (once in a blue moon), Grizzly bears rarely eat people. Emphasis on rare.
Poor SFW - he comes from the wrong side of the tracks. One of these days his boat will come in and they'll be movin' on up! Hang in there, Scott - we don't judge!
Would guess that in your area Scott, people are sloppy with food and garbage. Some probably think it is cute to feed the bears. And yes, 'habituated bears' can be dangerous.
Black bears will predate on humans (once in a blue moon), Grizzly bears rarely eat people. Emphasis on rare.
Poor SFW - he comes from the wrong side of the tracks. One of these days his boat will come in and they'll be movin' on up! Hang in there, Scott - we don't judge!
