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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Ask an Atheist
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 53, 54, 55 ... 57, 58, 59 Next |
p4jkafla
Location: New England, USA Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 5:35pm |
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Lazy8 wrote: My experience mirrors Manbird's. I never did believe.
Oh I said I did—because after all if you don't you go straight to hell. And they made you say you did on the assumption either that you were telling the truth or that saying so often enough would make it true.
But saying it didn't make it true. And eventually I admitted it to myself, and then to my family. Admitting it to myself meant examining what I was saying: telling god you believed in him and loved him, when he was supposed to be all-seeing and all-knowing and knew without being told whether you did or not. I realized that I wasn't fooling god (if any) or even myself, and the absurdity of the charade became too much to keep up so I hung up my altarboy robe for good.
I don't think I was alone in those pews. There are probably millions of people dressed up for sunday services and nodding their heads while they piously intone that they believe, when inside those heads they're thinking "No I don't. This is ridiculous. I wish I was outside taking a walk."
Yep, mass psychotic behavior is part of the human experience, and religion in whatever form is no exception.
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p4jkafla
Location: New England, USA Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 5:32pm |
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edieraye wrote:
Wow! What a fascinating history. I can see how it must have been a painful process for you but also, what a rich heritage. How to balance the two - honoring the amazing legacy of your grandfather while honoring your own personal and very different journey must have been difficult at times. It might still be. Thanks for sharing. I find people's own, honest, stories so much more interesting and informative and inspirational than philosophical and theoritical noodling.
Oh, and thanks Lazy8, too - you know I always look forward to your posts!
Thanks! I agree with you...personal stories are the best. What's yours?
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edieraye
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 5:15pm |
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p4jkafla wrote:I was bought up in a very strict catholic household, and catholicism ran very deep. For example, my grandfather was the founder of the Catholic Medical Mission Board (which is now a $B global medical relief org.). In his home in Yonkers, he had one of the very few private chapels in America, where the Arch Bishop of N would come and say Mass for his family. He had 11 children; his eldest daughter became a maryknoll nun who ultimately became Mother Superior of that order. My father, who was the oldest son, was in the Maryknoll Seminary for 10 years before he came to the conclusion that it wasn't his calling. He opted out before he took final vows, and then married my mom.
To say I was raised catholic would be an understatement. I also graduated went to a catholic high school, and graduated from a Jesuit College. However, that is not to say I didn't question my religion, as I did, continuously through college. I still believed...until I had my first of many brushes with Catholic Family Services, regarding my gender issues. Then, it was quickly downhill from there. Nothing made sense anymore; certainly none of what the church would have one believe.
It was only when the child abuse scandals broke here in the US and across the globe that I finally realized that if the supposed spiritual head of the body of christ could be so awful, I could no longer believe in any of it. I started to read and listen to people like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris. I started to read more and more, people like John Loftus, who completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) destroyed christianity with his book "Why I Became an Atheist", and others.
And I am far far happier now than I have been in a very long time. Wow! What a fascinating history. I can see how it must have been a painful process for you but also, what a rich heritage. How to balance the two - honoring the amazing legacy of your grandfather while honoring your own personal and very different journey must have been difficult at times. It might still be. Thanks for sharing. I find people's own, honest, stories so much more interesting and informative and inspirational than philosophical and theoritical noodling. Oh, and thanks Lazy8, too - you know I always look forward to your posts!
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p4jkafla
Location: New England, USA Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 5:05pm |
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I was bought up in a very strict catholic household, and catholicism ran very deep. For example, my grandfather was the founder of the Catholic Medical Mission Board (which is now a $B global medical relief org.). In his home in Yonkers, he had one of the very few private chapels in America, where the Arch Bishop of N would come and say Mass for his family. He had 11 children; his eldest daughter became a maryknoll nun who ultimately became Mother Superior of that order. My father, who was the oldest son, was in the Maryknoll Seminary for 10 years before he came to the conclusion that it wasn't his calling. He opted out before he took final vows, and then married my mom.
To say I was raised catholic would be an understatement. I also graduated went to a catholic high school, and graduated from a Jesuit College. However, that is not to say I didn't question my religion, as I did, continuously through college. I still believed...until I had my first of many brushes with Catholic Family Services, regarding my gender issues. Then, it was quickly downhill from there. Nothing made sense anymore; certainly none of what the church would have one believe.
It was only when the child abuse scandals broke here in the US and across the globe that I finally realized that if the supposed spiritual head of the body of christ could be so awful, I could no longer believe in any of it. I started to read and listen to people like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris. I started to read more and more, people like John Loftus, who completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) destroyed christianity with his book "Why I Became an Atheist", and others.
And I am far far happier now than I have been in a very long time.
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Lazy8
Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:59pm |
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p4jkafla wrote:I'm curious as to how any of the atheists posting here came to become non believers. What was the path you took to understand the world the way you do?
My experience mirrors Manbird's. I never did believe. Oh I said I did—because after all if you don't you go straight to hell. And they made you say you did on the assumption either that you were telling the truth or that saying so often enough would make it true. But saying it didn't make it true. And eventually I admitted it to myself, and then to my family. Admitting it to myself meant examining what I was saying: telling god you believed in him and loved him, when he was supposed to be all-seeing and all-knowing and knew without being told whether you did or not. I realized that I wasn't fooling god (if any) or even myself, and the absurdity of the charade became too much to keep up so I hung up my altarboy robe for good. I don't think I was alone in those pews. There are probably millions of people dressed up for sunday services and nodding their heads while they piously intone that they believe, when inside those heads they're thinking "No I don't. This is ridiculous. I wish I was outside taking a walk."
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Red_Dragon
Location: Dumbf*ckistan
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:37pm |
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Manbird wrote: I simply never believed in a god. I tried and tried and tried - every way, all kinds of spiritual ways of thinking but I always felt like a fraud, pretending. I found athiesm (I like the humanism branch, myself) through my 12 step stuff. Which is kind of the opposite way it works for most recovering people. But for me, recovery gave the ability to be true to myself and not have to pretend to believe.
bybhiw
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edieraye
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:37pm |
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Manbird wrote: I simply never believed in a god. I tried and tried and tried - every way, all kinds of spiritual ways of thinking but I always felt like a fraud, pretending. I found athiesm (I like the humanism branch, myself) through my 12 step stuff. Which is kind of the opposite way it works for most recovering people. But for me, recovery gave the ability to be true to myself and not have to pretend to believe. Thanks for sharing! I'm always interested in people's personal stories. And great question P4 - thanks for asking it.
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Manbird
Location: ? ? ? Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:33pm |
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p4jkafla wrote:I'm curious as to how any of the atheists posting here came to become non believers. What was the path you took to understand the world the way you do?
I simply never believed in a god. I tried and tried and tried - every way, all kinds of spiritual ways of thinking but I always felt like a fraud, pretending. I found athiesm (I like the humanism branch, myself) through my 12 step stuff. Which is kind of the opposite way it works for most recovering people. But for me, recovery gave the ability to be true to myself and not have to pretend to believe.
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p4jkafla
Location: New England, USA Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:29pm |
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I'm curious as to how any of the atheists posting here came to become non believers. What was the path you took to understand the world the way you do?
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edieraye
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:24pm |
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As long as we are posting links, one of my perennial crushes, Alain de Botton, recently gave a TED talk on Atheism 2.0
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Manbird
Location: ? ? ? Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:20pm |
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oldviolin wrote: That's going to really mess up your underwear schedule. But, hey, you know?
Oh, I know all right. I know. And you're going to know, too, in about 2 seconds little mister.
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oldviolin
Location: esse quam videri Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:10pm |
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Manbird wrote: It's good stuff. I have 4 episodes queued up and the DVR.
That's going to really mess up your underwear schedule. But, hey, you know?
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Manbird
Location: ? ? ? Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:09pm |
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p4jkafla wrote:
It's good stuff. I have 4 episodes queued up and the DVR.
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p4jkafla
Location: New England, USA Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 4:06pm |
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Manbird wrote:Closer To TruthA fantastic series exploring science, cosmology and spirituality in a pragmatic and intelligent way. Thoughtful conversations with scientists, philosophers and theologians. I highly recommend it. Have a listen to these people discuss these topics - then have a look at the way it's discussed here (at RP). that looks great! I can't wait to dive in!
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Lazy8
Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 3:50pm |
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Manbird wrote:Closer To TruthA fantastic series exploring science, cosmology and spirituality in a pragmatic and intelligent way. Thoughtful conversations with scientists, philosophers and theologians. I highly recommend it. Have a listen to these people discuss these topics - then have a look at the way it's discussed here (at RP).
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oldviolin
Location: esse quam videri Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 3:11pm |
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Manbird wrote:Closer To TruthA fantastic series exploring science, cosmology and spirituality in a pragmatic and intelligent way. Thoughtful conversations with scientists, philosophers and theologians. I highly recommend it. Have a listen to these people discuss these topics - then have a look at the way it's discussed here (at RP). And I was beginning to think you didn't love me anymore...
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Manbird
Location: ? ? ? Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 3:09pm |
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Closer To TruthA fantastic series exploring science, cosmology and spirituality in a pragmatic and intelligent way. Thoughtful conversations with scientists, philosophers and theologians. I highly recommend it. Have a listen to these people discuss these topics - then have a look at the way it's discussed here (at RP).
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p4jkafla
Location: New England, USA Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 3:00pm |
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If you haven't seen this show...you should check it out. http://www.atheist-experience.com/Just a wonderful discussion show on religion and atheism. Matt Dillahunty is a particularly good host.
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(former member)
Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 2:16pm |
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Beaker wrote: Congrats. You win prize #2 for condescension. Assuming you think you know how I think or how I might feel? Even joking about it? How presumptuous of you.
Well that was predictable. Sorry to you too. Gwah, even. I actually meant "disagreed with at times, perhaps outnumbered". Who's presumptuous?
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edieraye
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Posted:
Mar 13, 2012 - 1:33pm |
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Lazy8 wrote: Never been true in my experience. Maybe you can just choose to believe things, I can't. I tried. If I could have my life would have been a lot easier.
Thanks for sending me down my own little bunny trail. I (respectfully, of course) completely disagree and, as often happens, when I come across something a I know isn't true for me (FOR ME) it helped me clarify what I do think, it forced me to shape and sharpen my own thoughts on the subject. So a tip of the hat to everyone who participated.
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