MusicIsMotion wrote: 
My intent in creating this thread is that of honest discussion using thinking skills, not visceral attack skills - I have studied comparative religion for much of my life, I am an atheist - I don't believe that Thor, Pan, Ra, Jehovah, Jesus, are any more real than batman, the tooth fairy, or that bunny.  Atheism is America's Great Taboo - even "worse" than being gay.  This is an open forum to discuss ideas relating to atheism / humanism, and I'd appreciate it if any "god bashing" were taken to it's own thread - nobody's ever going to convert me to christianity, I see religion as control mechanism, and spirituality as hopeful ignorance - but, I have no interest in changing anyone's opinion concerning their relationship between themselves and what / who they perceive as deity; my intention here is to be a supportive resource for those who are thinking about and questioning the ideas of religion, faith, etc., as they relate to morality, personal actualization, mortality, and so on.

If these discussions bother anyone,  or assault their sensitivities, I would think that they would have the brains to just stay out of this thread.  IMO, this is the only life I have, I have better things to do with it than quibble over the assumptions of invisible truths.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 

I think you actually took the prize for being condescending in this thread and the competition was very steep as you pointed out earlier, congratulations!

 Lazy8 wrote: 
My self-image doesn't require anything of the sort and I am admittedly wrong for choosing to be offended.  God wouldn't want me to be because my motivation is, in it's simplest form by self-realization, judgement.  It backs up what I've been trying to convey in opposition to statements like "religion has been the reason for conflict and destruction".  It's not the belief or religion that's caused it.  It's a weak, mortal's lack of restraint when they become offended by another's opinion.  My restraint is still weak when it comes to God-bashing, but not so weak that I cannot accept adversity.  Debate and open communication is the solution to verbal conflict and verbal conflict is where war gets started.  I am a work in progress and I accept that about myself.  Christians who truly believe want for as many others to as well and likewise, be saved after death. It isn't my intention to force an ideal on anyone out of personal gain.  I am not in misery therefore I have no selfish motivation for company.  I fear for those that don't believe in anything afterward, especially those that I admire and respect.  I don't want pain and suffering for eternity for them.  I don't want for it to be too late for them.  Eternity is a long time to spend realizing that you were wrong. 

*EDIT*  After contemplating what I typed, I cannot (again, self-realized) totally agree with my own statement that religion hasn't caused wars and conflict.  I come to this conclusion realizing that anything passionate to one is important and the denial of that passion causes conflict.  I uphold my statement about the pure form of faith-based spirituality.  Those conflicts arise from our inability to restrain ourselves.  They come from misguided reasons such as people, indeed, trying to force beliefs upon another  My intention is to defend the faith, not mankind's conflict over it. 

HC, I apologize for my statement to you and for any ill-will or disregard to YOUR feelings.  I was wrong. 

 Lazy8 wrote: 
Amen.
 
IKMIRD 

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
Never been true in my experience. Maybe you can just choose to believe things, I can't. I tried. If I could have my life would have been a lot easier.

When we're little children we believe what we're told because we trust those who tell us, but eventually we learn that they can be wrong or dishonest for all kinds of reasons. That first instinct keeps us alive until we can think for ourselves, the second keeps us alive once we can. Maybe you can turn this off, I can't. Tell me something you can't prove and I won't believe it. If it helps you can tell yourself god made me that way.

No one is telling you atheists don't have feelings. We're all human. Your passion doesn't make what you believe true tho.

Feel free to defend your beliefs. I don't need to make you stop believing them, but if your self-image requires that others accept your beliefs you're going to get your feelings hurt unless you hang out exclusively with people who believe what you do. People like me exist and have every right to take our places in the public sphere. We aren't going away, and we won't sit quietly and say "amen" when we don't mean it.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
I have to say that I respect your statement here more than any.  If I may, though, it is absolutely your business.  If or when the time comes to engage that topic with yourself, you'll surely know.  Thank you for the exchange this morning.  Have a good day, SD.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
You're right.  My bad.  It's my own responsibility to steer clear of contempt and take heed of what I take in and yep, my fault for walking into something to be offended by.  I certainly didn't embark upon this thread to "ask an atheist" anything, truth be told.  I suppose I just wanted to discern those that are capable of engaging in this passively or aggressively in contrast to those that I perceive as itchin' to offend to satisfy my own curiosity.  I got what I was looking for.   

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
Which is why I do not discuss this issue with believers IRL out of respect for their feelings. This is an internet forum where the post is titled Ask an Atheist. Pretty self explanatory as to what we are discussing here.
BTW, I am not an Atheist. I think that Atheist and believers are pretty arrogant. I am not smart enough to be so sure either way. My personal slant is that it is none of my business whether their is a God or not. If there is a God and he wants me to believe, then I will. If there is not, there is nothing to look for. I really try not to think much more than that about it. I am a simple man.

 hippiechick wrote: 

That's his problem, not mine.

 hippiechick wrote: 
Therein lies the source of your contempt, self-admitted.  I don't think you disbelieve, HC.  I think you believe in God, and you hate Him.

A belief is a thought, which is a story made to supply an answer to to a feeling we don't understand.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 

WRONG

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Choosing to believe is a choice.  Choosing not to believe is a choice.  Having belief that God exists is a belief.  Having belief that God does not exist is a belief.  You have them.  We all have them.  SD, I've been here for a few years and through this forum, I've come to like and respect many of the people.  Yes, people.  The ones on the other end of the monitor who typed on their keyboard through their fingers from what's in their minds and hearts.  Are you telling me that atheists don't have feelings?  Are you telling me that the words of others don't hurt you when they come from people you respect and admire when those words attack something you're passionate about?  Words are taken by and directed at those they enlighten or offend.  We have a responsibility as moralists... as logical, caring humans to abide by that if we claim to care about others' feelings. 

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
Got me wrong Dude. I hate the game, not the players.

Religion has fucked up this world in more ways than atheists ever could have. As recently as WWII my relatives were put into a barn and burnt to death because the Catholic religion supported Hitler in his hate.

I can't respect views that I think are ridiculous and cause terrible calamity to this world, whether or not they be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, whatever. It's like the birth control issue. Catholics are screaming because they have to pay for birth control...well, I have to pay for dirty wars. And Catholics are the biggest hypocrites in the world. But I have many Christian friends and if they want to believe, I never argue with them.

You are entitled to find comfort from your own personal god. Doesn't matter to me. But the fact that you find my non-belief in religion or god to be offensive proves my point about religion.

The end.

 hippiechick wrote: 
I'm going to try my best to leave this thread alone after this, but I have to admit.  I did learn something, so it turns out my visit here was productive after all.  I've deduced that there are two major classes of atheists.

Passive atheists: People that choose to take their own destiny and choices into their own hands and live their lives being alright with what others believe in as long as they aren't intruded upon.  They try to maintain their own spirituality for what it is: their own, and live their lives based upon a moral compass that doesn't take from others, contributes to society and obey the laws of that society.  They usually base their beliefs upon intellectual and non-biased research and self-education.

Aggressive (or "hater") atheists:  People who choose not to believe and are completely offended at the sight, speak or otherwise sensual awareness of God or someone else's belief in God (or whatever deity others believe in).  They have no respect for other people's feelings and take every opportunity to make it known how much they resent the concept of God and Jesus Christ.  They hate and disrespect authority.   They are name-callers and "haters" of The Word and enthusiastically participate in belief-bashing, not specifically or necessarily because they're being hassled, but because they aren't aware of their own center of state and seek company for their misery.  They are completely offended by any mention of religion or religion-based statements and topics. 

It's very conceivable that I'm bordering on judgement with this post and for that, I sincerely apologize.  I am human.  I am a sinner.  I absolutely admit it.

HC, you are what I define as a "hater" atheist and your paltry, hateful remarks scar the intellectual credibility of other atheists.  You are to atheists, in my opinion, as Westboro Baptist Church is to Christians.  From a Christian's point of view, Westboro does not represent the belief of my God.  They are hateful and insecure in their beliefs.  They are law without grace.  They are lost and will pay a price for misleading people to hate of others through what they preach as the Word of God.  They are a boil on the face of Christianity and a total shame to God and what He wants for all of us.   Their "god" is based upon the one-sided view of wrath without the concept of salvation through repentance.  Essentially, they are guilty of violating one of the commandments which would be idolatry.

I hope that one day you see what you don't see now.  Maybe it won't be Christianity (although I surely hope it will be), but you don't seem to have the ability to respect everyone's views and beliefs with a shred of dignity.  You're a religion-based hate-monger.  You are lost in your hate and resentment and your perspective doesn't serve you or other atheists in a healthy manner.  It has to be painful and if it is, I'm sorry for you.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
You are simply reacting to an external force. It is how a person reacts to an external force, not the force itself, that is a measure of a person.

The Dali Llama would not kill anyone, even if that person was attacking his own self.

I have have many discussions with others about this, it is a dilemma for certain.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Exactly. Atheism is not a belief, it is a non-belief.

 hippiechick wrote: 

That is a load of crap.

 hippiechick wrote: 

Instantly. He is a faulty human brought on by brain injury in courageous military service, nothing but heartfelt sympathy for what his poor family must be going through.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
I don't have any, that is the whole point. You cannot disrespect or offend me unless you personally attack my family or me. There is a certain elegance in beauty in that. You should not be concerned what others think of your beliefs, they are yours and yours alone.