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Breaking News - kcar - Nov 27, 2021 - 12:53pm
 
What Did You Do Today? - Proclivities - Nov 27, 2021 - 12:51pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Nov 27, 2021 - 11:18am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Nov 27, 2021 - 7:17am
 
What is the meaning of this? - rhahl - Nov 27, 2021 - 7:08am
 
Mr. & Mrs Levigne's rejected baby name list... - Steely_D - Nov 26, 2021 - 10:22pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Nov 26, 2021 - 9:15pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - Alchemist - Nov 26, 2021 - 6:38pm
 
The Obituary Page - Antigone - Nov 26, 2021 - 3:57pm
 
More reggae, less Marley please - rhahl - Nov 26, 2021 - 2:08pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Nov 26, 2021 - 9:21am
 
Coffee - miamizsun - Nov 26, 2021 - 5:55am
 
What did you have for dinner? - Antigone - Nov 25, 2021 - 5:23pm
 
Old Time and Folk - Lazy8 - Nov 25, 2021 - 5:19pm
 
New Music - R_P - Nov 25, 2021 - 1:32pm
 
Two questions. That's it. I promise. - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Nov 25, 2021 - 12:47pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - Manbird - Nov 25, 2021 - 11:02am
 
Race in America - westslope - Nov 25, 2021 - 9:07am
 
What Puts You In the Christmas Mood? - miamizsun - Nov 25, 2021 - 9:03am
 
Today in History - Proclivities - Nov 25, 2021 - 8:10am
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Nov 25, 2021 - 7:58am
 
Bad Poetry - oldviolin - Nov 25, 2021 - 7:25am
 
Life Imitates the movies? - oldviolin - Nov 25, 2021 - 7:22am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Nov 25, 2021 - 5:27am
 
Live Music - R_P - Nov 24, 2021 - 9:22pm
 
Animal Resistance - Manbird - Nov 24, 2021 - 7:55pm
 
♥ ♥ ♥ Vote For Pie ♥ ♥ ♥ - haresfur - Nov 24, 2021 - 4:05pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Nov 24, 2021 - 2:25pm
 
Other Medical Stuff - westslope - Nov 24, 2021 - 8:22am
 
Derplahoma! - Red_Dragon - Nov 24, 2021 - 7:39am
 
Play the Blues - rhahl - Nov 24, 2021 - 2:37am
 
Acoustic Guitar - rhahl - Nov 24, 2021 - 12:54am
 
songs that ROCK! - rhahl - Nov 23, 2021 - 10:54pm
 
Jazz - rhahl - Nov 23, 2021 - 10:24pm
 
Immigration - R_P - Nov 23, 2021 - 8:56pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - whatshisname - Nov 23, 2021 - 5:12pm
 
Questions. - haresfur - Nov 23, 2021 - 1:42pm
 
Violent political protest - westslope - Nov 23, 2021 - 12:05pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Nov 23, 2021 - 11:45am
 
NEED A COMPUTER GEEK! - ScottFromWyoming - Nov 23, 2021 - 9:56am
 
Great Old Songs You Rarely Hear Anymore - Proclivities - Nov 23, 2021 - 8:01am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - oldviolin - Nov 23, 2021 - 7:19am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - islander - Nov 23, 2021 - 6:03am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - miamizsun - Nov 23, 2021 - 5:00am
 
Republican Party - Red_Dragon - Nov 22, 2021 - 5:41pm
 
RP website error on my MAC - WX0B - Nov 22, 2021 - 4:37pm
 
Beware of Darkness - richrosen - Nov 22, 2021 - 3:04pm
 
Weather fun - Proclivities - Nov 22, 2021 - 12:28pm
 
Happy Thanksgiving! - miamizsun - Nov 22, 2021 - 10:38am
 
As California Goes, So Goes The Rest Of The Country - ScottFromWyoming - Nov 22, 2021 - 10:18am
 
American Justice - Red_Dragon - Nov 21, 2021 - 4:25pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - oldviolin - Nov 21, 2021 - 3:17pm
 
Hawkwind - Steely_D - Nov 21, 2021 - 2:34pm
 
Automotive Lust - R_P - Nov 21, 2021 - 2:11pm
 
Poetry Forum - R_P - Nov 21, 2021 - 1:37pm
 
Ambient Music - miamizsun - Nov 21, 2021 - 7:47am
 
Last gas price paid? - ScottN - Nov 20, 2021 - 6:46pm
 
picture - Manbird - Nov 20, 2021 - 5:08pm
 
What makes you smile? - Antigone - Nov 20, 2021 - 1:05pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Nov 20, 2021 - 12:15pm
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - ScottFromWyoming - Nov 19, 2021 - 6:26pm
 
Canada - westslope - Nov 19, 2021 - 11:25am
 
And the good news is.... - westslope - Nov 19, 2021 - 10:53am
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - GeneP59 - Nov 19, 2021 - 9:42am
 
RP Night Skin - clomaka - Nov 19, 2021 - 7:48am
 
Solar / Wind / Geothermal / Efficiency Energy - miamizsun - Nov 19, 2021 - 7:39am
 
The worst on Youtube! - ScottFromWyoming - Nov 19, 2021 - 7:15am
 
Outstanding Covers - oldviolin - Nov 19, 2021 - 7:13am
 
Florida - miamizsun - Nov 19, 2021 - 6:49am
 
Beer - oldviolin - Nov 19, 2021 - 6:35am
 
Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Nov 19, 2021 - 4:44am
 
What Are You Grateful For? - Red_Dragon - Nov 18, 2021 - 3:35pm
 
Genesis Tour 2021 - miamizsun - Nov 18, 2021 - 1:19pm
 
Signs o' the Apocalypse in the news... - ScottFromWyoming - Nov 18, 2021 - 9:41am
 
Joe Biden - Red_Dragon - Nov 18, 2021 - 9:37am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 305, 306, 307  Next
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kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Nov 25, 2021 - 12:00pm

 rhahl wrote:

“very passing day suggests that the administration is failing to keep up with COVID’s mutations. Though it is spending a lot of money, when it assumed power, it failed to prioritize cheap, accessible tests open to anyone who needs them, left too much basic data gathering to scholars or the media, and made at best half-hearted
pushes in favor of improved ventilation, air filters, and other obvious steps that would minimize indoor COVID problems, especially in schools.
It also did essentially nothing to put reliable face masks in the hands of the population and failed even to set standards for advertising and
sales of facemasks, leaving a vast market to charlatans. It still has no
program in place for large scale random testing that can swiftly
identify new variants and it has failed to create an effective national
set of statistics with public dashboards anyone can access. Essentially
it has staked everything on vaccines that will need regular, costly
updates in a country with no national healthcare system. It is obvious
that the administration’s hopes for an end to the COVID nightmare are
premature.”

I don't know anything about this study or the expertise of the authors when it comes to epidemiology and policy but still: the excerpt you've provided feels awfully slanted against the Biden administration. Compared to the Trump administration, Biden et al. look quite effective.

The excerpt mentions a dearth of  "large scale random testing" and a federal failure "to put face masks in the hands of the population" and other missteps. I don't recall reading such problems attributed to the Biden administration. By the time Biden took office, vaccine production was ramping up (yes, thanks in part to the Trump administration). Other Covid-preventive measures such as social distancing and masks were and ARE difficult to enforce. Such measure IIRC can't be imposed by the federal govt but instead fall under the authority of state governors.

I do not recall reading of failures to track new variants of Covid. As for presentation of national statistics on Covid, that's been provided by NGOs for quite awhile.

"Essentially it has staked everything on vaccines that will need regular, costly updates in a country with no national healthcare system."

Everything? Please. Vaccines btw are the best bet for beating Covid in the US. Look at the struggle state governments have had in getting people to mask up and socially distance. You even have governors in populous states like TX and FL turn masks and distancing into political footballs and tyrannical challenges to individual "freedom." Asking/telling people to behave responsibly works only for so long.

Compared to the incompetence and skullduggery of the Trump admin and Boris Johnson admin in the UK, Biden et al are hardly the problem.

As for the lead-off accusation


“very passing day suggests that the administration is failing to keep up with COVID’s mutations"


I'd like to see evidence of that. 

Perhaps you could point out where this PDF backs up such a claim. That's a pretty big claim for a poli-sci paper. 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Nov 25, 2021 - 9:14am

I look forward to reading the piece but before I get started, please do recall a couple of little sneaky details:

1)  testing in the early phase of the pandemic was highly unreliable,

2)  there was very little in the way of a solid consensus in regards to what constituted an effective face mask.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 24, 2021 - 1:51pm

 kcar wrote:

Are you sure you posted the right link? The quote you provide does not show up in the paper's abstract and the paper itself doesn't seem to be freely available.

Biden and rhe Democrats have heavily promoted masks and social distancing. IIRC Biden has used government powers to promote manufacturing and distribution of masks and relevant medical equipment.

Perhaps the quote you provided was meant to summarize the failures of the Trump administration. 



It's down on page 63 of the PDF file.
rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Nov 24, 2021 - 1:50pm

 kcar wrote:
 rhahl wrote:
 

Are you sure you posted the right link? The quote you provide does not show up in the paper's abstract and the paper itself doesn't seem to be freely available. Biden and rhe Democrats have heavily promoted masks and social distancing. IIRC Biden has used government powers to promote manufacturing and distribution of masks and relevant medical equipment. Perhaps the quote you provided was meant to summarize the failures of the Trump administration. 
 
It's a pdf. The title is
 
"The Knife Edge Election of 2020:
American Politics Between Washington, Kabul, and Weimar"
 
Thomas Ferguson, Paul Jorgensen, and Jie Chen, Institute for New Economic Thinking
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Nov 24, 2021 - 1:42pm

 rhahl wrote:

Are you sure you posted the right link? The quote you provide does not show up in the paper's abstract and the paper itself doesn't seem to be freely available.

Biden and rhe Democrats have heavily promoted masks and social distancing. IIRC Biden has used government powers to promote manufacturing and distribution of masks and relevant medical equipment.

Perhaps the quote you provided was meant to summarize the failures of the Trump administration. 

rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Nov 24, 2021 - 11:35am

 haresfur wrote:
 rhahl wrote:

"Vaccine-only" was not the only possible plan (masks, social distancing, improving ventilation systems. etc.). It has failed. The administration cannot admit that it has failed, or change the policy, because that would explain so clearly who screwed up. I think Biden was lured into this trap but it is possible that he simply wouldn't have it any other way.

I agree that the unenforceable carrot of letting vaccinated people go without masks was a failure. But the lack of compliance with mask mandates isn't something they could have controlled. Improving ventilation would be a multi-decade project that business interests would fight tooth and nail. No the post trump debacle is a combination of a much more transmissive variant and lack of courage/will in the population.
 
“[E]very passing day suggests that the administration is failing to keep up with COVID’s mutations. Though it is spending a lot of money, when it assumed power, it failed to prioritize cheap, accessible tests open to anyone who needs them, left too much basic data gathering to scholars or the media, and made at best half-hearted pushes in favor of improved ventilation, air filters, and other obvious steps that would minimize indoor COVID problems, especially in schools. It also did essentially nothing to put reliable face masks in the hands of the population and failed even to set standards for advertising and sales of facemasks, leaving a vast market to charlatans. It still has no program in place for large scale random testing that can swiftly identify new variants and it has failed to create an effective national set of statistics with public dashboards anyone can access. Essentially it has staked everything on vaccines that will need regular, costly updates in a country with no national healthcare system. It is obvious that the administration’s hopes for an end to the COVID nightmare are premature.”
 
Thomas Ferguson, Paul Jorgensen, and Jie Chen, Institute for New Economic Thinking]
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:23pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I honestly didn't know they were there until later. I guess I'd heard about them but didn't know it was a developed site ... it was only discovered about 25 years ago, after a rancher diverted some irrigation water down a dry gully and exposed them. The BLM doesn't promote their sites very well! There are lots of dinosaur-y places around but usually you're just looking at the dirt where they found a bone.

https://www.blm.gov/visit/red-...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/...



There is a spot in Denver, not too far from Red Rocks where there are dinosaur footprints right next to the road. Drive up, walk around and look at them. It was barely known/advertised when I grew up there.

Edit: apparently a thing now: https://www.onlyinyourstate.co...
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 6:16pm

 JrzyTmata wrote:

dr. said after the 2nd shingle shot, you're good for life.
why didn't I get to see dinosaur tracks when we visited?



I honestly didn't know they were there until later. I guess I'd heard about them but didn't know it was a developed site ... it was only discovered about 25 years ago, after a rancher diverted some irrigation water down a dry gully and exposed them. The BLM doesn't promote their sites very well! There are lots of dinosaur-y places around but usually you're just looking at the dirt where they found a bone.

https://www.blm.gov/visit/red-...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/...

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 3:22pm

 JrzyTmata wrote:

dr. said after the 2nd shingle shot, you're good for life.
why didn't I get to see dinosaur tracks when we visited?



It's all about the timing. You need a little rain, then Manbird has to chase OldViolin across the muddy field.

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 1:38pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


That Shingrix is one helluva shot. Then you have to do it again in a few months. Justine and I had both just gotten ours when Haresfur came to town. So we were not very chipper hosts! He got to see some wild horses and dinosaur tracks tho so I don't think he hates us.


That was an amazing visit. Thank you for pretending you didn't feel like crap.

I'm still mortified about the table.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 11:19am

Thoughts and prayers, and don't clog up our ED with your idiocy.
JrzyTmata

JrzyTmata Avatar



Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 10:52am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


That Shingrix is one helluva shot. Then you have to do it again in a few months. Justine and I had both just gotten ours when Haresfur came to town. So we were not very chipper hosts! He got to see some wild horses and dinosaur tracks tho so I don't think he hates us.

dr. said after the 2nd shingle shot, you're good for life.
why didn't I get to see dinosaur tracks when we visited?

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 10:05am

 JrzyTmata wrote:

I originally had moderna. getting moderna booster. got my flu shot a few days ago. so no overlap there. had very mild reaction to flu shot. never had reaction before. Pneumonia shot coming up in the spring. those hurt like hell. sore arm that you can't move. then I should consider shingle vax. geez. are there any other vaxes?




That Shingrix is one helluva shot. Then you have to do it again in a few months. Justine and I had both just gotten ours when Haresfur came to town. So we were not very chipper hosts! He got to see some wild horses and dinosaur tracks tho so I don't think he hates us.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:34am

 Steely_D wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Squirrel!

Everybody that can, go get your shots. Same rules as when you started school or joined the military.
Wear a mask when you’re around folks. Cough into your sleeve. Get some sun as the days get shorter - the SAD season is coming.
 
You forgot wash your hands !!!!

You know it is a real shame when we have to tell people to wash their hands.

Explains way too much why we are in the sad state we are in.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:28am

 kurtster wrote:
Squirrel!

Everybody that can, go get your shots. Same rules as when you started school or joined the military.
Wear a mask when you’re around folks. Cough into your sleeve. Get some sun as the days get shorter - the SAD season is coming.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:24am

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:17am

 steeler wrote:
. I am mystified by those who take the opposite approach. The only explanation I can come up with is they are being driven, consciously or unconsciously, by a form of confirmation bias.


Now I believe it’s self-sustaining, with Americans convinced of something or another that makes them refuse medical advice. But I firmly believe that this is a result of a targeted social media attack by our enemies. By spreading misinformation they’ve managed to kill almost a million Americans without firing a shot. We’re outraged by the planes and the Twin Towers, but no one gives a damn about all these innocent Americans murdered by words.

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:10am

 Steely_D wrote:


This is all people need to know. There’s so much discussion in the press and online by people without a background in the sciences (not talking about you, specifically) that opine about what should/shouldn’t be done based on a study or a conjecture or common sense. It’s a massive case of “forest for the trees.”

Short version: medical experts study this crap for decades, understand nuance including pros/cons, and make recommendations that can change as they understand something more. Don’t “do your own research” except to understand what current public health recommendations are and follow the instructions. They may change, and that’s part of the process. (First leeches were good, then bad, now they’re good again. Go figure.)



The ongoing debates about vaccinations, masks, and climate change are stupefying in many ways, but especially so when I think about it in terms of thought processes, reason, and simple logic. When I am sorting through complex information on a subject that I know is beyond my understanding and intellectual reach, and the vast majority of those with expertise in the relevant fields are coming down on one side of an issue, I am going to take that side unless and until it is definitively proven that those with the decidedly minority position are correct. To me, that is just logical. I am mystified by those who take the opposite approach. The only explanation I can come up with is they are being driven, consciously or unconsciously, by a form of confirmation bias.

I am concerned about the virus. I am not concerned about the safety of the vaccine. While acknowledging that nothing is guaranteed or foolproof, I trust those epidemiologists and others in the field who have determined it to be sufficiently safe. I consider placing trust in these people and institutions to be logical. I readily acknowledge that I have no basis or requisite background knowledge upon which to study the issue myself and reach my own conclusion. So, yes, it is a matter of trust in those experts, those institutions, and, writ large, science itself.



Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 9:04am

 miamizsun wrote:
, it still makes sense to get a booster and continue educating your immune system


This is all people need to know. There’s so much discussion in the press and online by people without a background in the sciences (not talking about you, specifically) that opine about what should/shouldn’t be done based on a study or a conjecture or common sense. It’s a massive case of “forest for the trees.”

Short version: medical experts study this crap for decades, understand nuance including pros/cons, and make recommendations that can change as they understand something more. Don’t “do your own research” except to understand what current public health recommendations are and follow the instructions. They may change, and that’s part of the process. (First leeches were good, then bad, now they’re good again. Go figure.)
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 23, 2021 - 8:50am

 rhahl wrote:
 The immunity faded and new cases rose to unacceptable levels. Even if the vaccines stopped working entirely, it appears that the booster shots work (but again probably only for two or three months). One likely reason the immunity effect is so weak is that the present vaccines are directed against an extinct variant.  Where are the Delta vaccines?

The vaccines have not stopped working entirely. Your definition of working seems to be immunity from infection. There is far more to it than that; even after months vaxxed folks demonstrate resistance to serious infection as measured by hospitalization and death rates.

Our bodies need (and have) defense in depth. If we could reduce the covid death and hospitalization rates to that of vaxxed folks we would be having the equivalent of a bad flu season. We don't lock down and wreck our social and economic ecosystems over a bad flu season. We may still have high infection rates but we wouldn't have ICUs full of people gurgling their last on ventilators.

There may be no defense against the delta variant as effective as the vaccines were against the alpha variant. After decades of effort we don't have a vaccine against HIV.

The effort it took to develop the covid vaccines was immense. With that knowledge base tweaking one for the delta variant may not take as long or cost as much, but if people won't take it, if they keep whining that they aren't 100% effective, if they keep fastening on the aspects of the process they don't understand as if they were signs of malevolent intent why bother? And if after all that effort and expense if we only get a 10% improvement we would have been better off focusing on some other problem.

Like getting people to use the tools we already have, imperfect as they are. We could be done with this by now. We could be arguing about something else, and after a year and a half I am so ready to change the subject. But we can't. Because people are still getting sick, still dying, still falling for conspiracy theories, still searching desperately for any excuse to avoid that needle.

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