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islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 4:07pm

 kurtster wrote:


First off, I'm not telling anyone not to wear a seatbelt and also not to do anything else.
So you are telling us to wear a seatbelt?


 kurtster wrote:


OMG so much wrong stuff here I won't be compelled to quote it.


 kurtster wrote:



We are at the end, not at the beginning or middle. Time to get ready for the next event whatever that will be by getting back to living rather than just existing.


Not sure what you've been doing, but most of us didn't stop. We just adjusted to the situation as we deemed responsible/reasonable. ob-la-di ob-la-da and all. 




kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 3:54pm

 Steely_D wrote:
 rgio wrote:

In this particular conversation (and the seat belt one)...that's false.  You're free to do what you feel is necessary, but telling others not to wear a seat belt is reckless.  
And, declining to wear a seat belt doesn't cause others to unwillingly not wear a seat belt. 
That's the issue here: you can do what you want - except you're hurting other people if you're infectious. Then it moves from being a personal choice to being something related to living in a society where we look out for each other.
 
First off, I'm not telling anyone not to wear a seatbelt and also not to do anything else.

On the infectiousness part.  It has been well established that the vaccinated can and do get infected and while infected can also be and usually are infectious and can transmit.  When you get down to it, as far as being infectious, there is no difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated.  The only real difference is that the vaccinated will likely suffer less than the unvaccinated.  This is my understanding of the way things are with CV going forward.

I'm vaccinated.  The rest is chance.  I work with the unfiltered public and touch people as part of it.  Who knows what somebody might be a carrier of walking through the door.  Many other infectious diseases to worry about as well.  So its now just like anything else, again.  Always wash your hands after every encounter and do the best to keep up basic hygiene and nutrition.  I got over it the same as I got over reentering the work place after my transplant having zero immunity to everything.  Didn't wear any masks then either.  Just kept washing my hands, religiously.  You have to get on with life somehow, unless you're unable to deal with being in any kind of public situations.  Then comes in an old psychological disorder called Agoraphobia.  Society has largely become agoraphobic as a result of CV and those fears that come with it are being projected, hence all the hand wringing and paranoia of becoming infected.  Not to mention exploitation and the subsequent reinforcement of those fears.

We are at the end, not at the beginning or middle.  Time to get ready for the next event whatever that will be by getting back to living rather than just existing.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 3:43pm

 kcar wrote:


Going back to seat belts: when you refuse to wear them, you increase the risk that you'll be badly hurt in an accident. You also increase the risk that the public will have to pay to pick your body up off the pavement and hopefully save your life. Those public costs exist even when you have auto and health insurance.



That's a pretty common discussion point regarding helmets on motorcyclists and even smokers: your behavior turns into increased health care demands on the public. Should we, therefore, mandate something that is your choice to do/not do simply because of the cost consequences down the road? That is, your "lung cancer" takes up hospital resources and increases my insurance premium. (Now substitute other things like "diet" or "sport" and it gets a little trickier...)
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 3:22pm

 Steely_D wrote:


And, declining to wear a seat belt doesn't cause others to unwillingly not wear a seat belt. 
That's the issue here: you can do what you want - except you're hurting other people if you're infectious. Then it moves from being a personal choice to being something related to living in a society where we look out for each other.


FREEDUMB!!!
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 3:04pm

 Steely_D wrote:


And, declining to wear a seat belt doesn't cause others to unwillingly not wear a seat belt. 
That's the issue here: you can do what you want - except you're hurting other people if you're infectious. Then it moves from being a personal choice to being something related to living in a society where we look out for each other.


Going back to seat belts: when you refuse to wear them, you increase the risk that you'll be badly hurt in an accident. You also increase the risk that the public will have to pay to pick your body up off the pavement and hopefully save your life. Those public costs exist even when you have auto and health insurance.

Those public costs also exist with infectious diseases.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 2:20pm

 rgio wrote:

In this particular conversation (and the seat belt one)...that's false. 

You're free to do what you feel is necessary, but telling others not to wear a seat belt is reckless.  



And, declining to wear a seat belt doesn't cause others to unwillingly not wear a seat belt. 
That's the issue here: you can do what you want - except you're hurting other people if you're infectious. Then it moves from being a personal choice to being something related to living in a society where we look out for each other.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 1:12pm

 kurtster wrote:

Besides, shit happens just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Nothing you can do about it.

In this particular conversation (and the seat belt one)...that's false. 

You're free to do what you feel is necessary, but telling others not to wear a seat belt is reckless.  

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 12:30pm

 steeler wrote:

Yes, but there is some evidence that it could be beneficial for those over 65 or those immunocompromised.



Yes, that's what i meant, but wasn't clear. Thanks.

Part of the reason no one likes to come around here no more 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 11:50am

 kcar wrote:


Seat belts: the hallmarks of tyranny, oppression and abject slavery.






kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 11:09am

 kurtster wrote:

In Honda's, the dinging stops after about 10 minutes, even in my 2017.  And I did say I will buckle up if asked, didn't I ?

My body, my life. I've already dealt with a very nasty cancer and still do.   I'll live it my way, stupid and as crazy as it might seem to you, but I live for me, not you.


Seat belts: the hallmarks of tyranny, oppression and abject slavery.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 10:52am

 VV wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

Well just so you know, I don't wear a seat belt and pretty much never have unless as a passenger in someone else's vehicle and they ask. On the other hand, I don't use a phone while I'm driving either.  Driving is an opportunity to listen to music.

Finally, something you said that makes perfect sense only coming from you. Your f*ck it attitude explains a lot. So I’m also guessing you drive an old junker or have bypassed the “dinging” that is constant in newer cars when you don’t have a seatbelt on in the front seat? I’m guessing that as a passenger you would also let the “dinging” continue indefinitely unless the driver told your ass to buckle up?
 
In Honda's, the dinging stops after about 10 minutes, even in my 2017.  And I did say I will buckle up if asked, didn't I ?

My body, my life. I've already dealt with a very nasty cancer and still do.   I'll live it my way, stupid and as crazy as it might seem to you, but I live for me, not you.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 10:33am

 black321 wrote:


To be more specific, per the article and quotes...there is no evidence to support a 3rd shot for those under 65, or weakened immunity. 

Yes, but there is some evidence that it could be beneficial for those over 65 or those immunocompromised.

VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 10:04am

 kurtster wrote:

Well just so you know, I don't wear a seat belt and pretty much never have unless as a passenger in someone else's vehicle and they ask.

On the other hand, I don't use a phone while I'm driving either.  Driving is an opportunity to listen to music.

Finally, something you said that makes perfect sense only coming from you. Your f*ck it attitude explains a lot. So I’m also guessing you drive an old junker or have bypassed the “dinging” that is constant in newer cars when you don’t have a seatbelt on in the front seat? I’m guessing that as a passenger you would also let the “dinging” continue indefinitely unless the driver told your ass to buckle up?


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 8:52am

 rgio wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

Let me know when there is something new to worry about.

I'm guessing you didn't worry about dying the last time you drove a car...so why bother with a seat belt?  After all, there are hospitals if you get in an accident. Joking and politics aside... is it really so hard to get a booster?  Sure, the strains seem weaker and the therapies are better, but why not err on the side of caution?  For all of the reasons not to worry...633 people died yesterday. 
 
Well just so you know, I don't wear a seat belt and pretty much never have unless as a passenger in someone else's vehicle and they ask.

On the other hand, I don't use a phone while I'm driving either.  Driving is an opportunity to listen to music.

Besides, shit happens just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Nothing you can do about it.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 8:41am

 kurtster wrote:

Let me know when there is something new to worry about.


I'm guessing you didn't worry about dying the last time you drove a car...so why bother with a seat belt?  After all, there are hospitals if you get in an accident.

Joking and politics aside... is it really so hard to get a booster?  Sure, the strains seem weaker and the therapies are better, but why not err on the side of caution?  For all of the reasons not to worry...633 people died yesterday. 

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 8:39am

And yet... he's still alive.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 8:39am

 black321 wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

No offense to anyone but I am over and done with it.  Not getting any boosters. Had 2 Moderna's.  Been directly exposed (that I know of) 3 times and when it was nasty. Evidently we now have post infection therapies available now. Time to be more worried about being struck by lightning.  My 3rd Pandemic. Not gonna look back. Have fun scaring yourselves.  To each their own. Peace 

you could have left out the latter part...seems like you were provoking a response
 
Nope wasn't trying to provoke or upset anyone.  Just saying my thoughts, like everyone else does, and then just moving on.

Was intentionally not directed at anyone just for that reason.

That some could not let it go is on them.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 8:01am

 kurtster wrote:

No offense to anyone but I am over and done with it.  Not getting any boosters.

Had 2 Moderna's.  Been directly exposed (that I know of) 3 times and when it was nasty.

Evidently we now have post infection therapies available now.

Time to be more worried about being struck by lightning.  My 3rd Pandemic. Not gonna look back.

Have fun scaring yourselves.  To each their own.


Peace 



you could have left out the latter part...seems like you were provoking a response
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 7:57am

 steeler wrote:

It seems the recommendations against getting a 2d booster are based on the mildness of the illness of those who were infected by Omicron and now the sub variant. And the expectation that this trend will continue — I.e, the virus will continue to weaken in terms of the severity of the illness. This makes sense to me. It also might mean no need for further vaccinations unless the virus evolves differently than expected.

Contrastingly, last summer/fall, at the time many of us were getting the first booster, there pretty much was agreement among experts that it was necessary. At that time, of course, the severity of illness of those infected had not definitively turned toward mildness.

I also agree with the predictions that almost all of us will get it at some point. Since many who get it are asymptomatic, I guess it is possible I already have had it and did not know it.

Still, I do not think there is a significant downside for me. But who knows? I think the downside would be possible side effects, known or unknown. Since, I have had 3 shots without problem, I would guess possible downside for me would be possible unknown effects that show up later.

I did read a while ago — only time I saw it mentioned — that it is possible that getting too many shots might at some point have the opposite effect on the immune system. That, I thought, was interesting. But my guess would be that I would not be at that point by getting a 2d booster.

The CDC is being criticized for saying people can get the booster without recommending it. However, everything I have read from experts seems to say it is safe to get it but maybe not necessary.



To be more specific, per the article and quotes...there is no evidence to support a 3rd shot for those under 65, or weakened immunity. 
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 5, 2022 - 4:03am

 miamizsun wrote:
listened to offit on several occasions and i think he makes sense

regarding the new variant - i thought i just heard in the background that about one in fifteen are symptomatic
say what? has anyone else heard something similar?
during my lunch i'm going to see if can verifry that
 

well that didn't happen as planned, however... 

99.7% of Taiwan's COVID cases asymptomatic or mild

Rate of severe illness highest in people over 70

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — The Central Epidemic Command Center (CECC) on Friday (April 1) announced that over 99% of cases in Taiwan this year have been asymptomatic or mild, amid a spike in COVID cases with the Omicron variant.

CECC head Chen Shih-chung (陳時中) announced 104 local COVID cases, the most since 130 were reported on June 24, 2021, 281 days ago. Philip Lo (羅一鈞), deputy head of the CECC’s medical response division, provided the results of the latest gene sequencing and case observation results.

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