It would be hard to label this group. The best I can come up would be the AOC wing of the body politic or those like minded.
She's got newfound powers? Well whoever had the power before wasn't using it. That's how it goes. But complaining about her having powers the voters didn't give her is arguable, but doing so while the president fires people for doing their jobs and installs "acting" administrators with no qualifications? Classic Kurtster.
This “faction” you are talking about are elected governors, mayors, county commissioners, etc, exercising police powers, are they not? Or are you talking about some nefarious other faction?
It would be hard to label this group. The best I can come up would be the AOC wing of the body politic or those like minded.
I have to give this a yeah, but ... There are many who have seen Civil Liberties held in contempt by a faction and while there are some measures that the time requires, there is very little trust left in those that administer these needs for them to be seen as only temporary. This control is being taken without voting. This faction wants to keep this newly gained control / power over the population. If left unchallenged, it will. It cannot make what is temporary permanent without the consent of the governed. This concern is well founded.
This âfactionâ you are talking about are elected governors, mayors, county commissioners, etc, exercising police powers, are they not? Or are you talking about some nefarious other faction?
I suspect the former. Which makes the notion idiotic.
There are many who have seen Civil Liberties held in contempt by a faction and while there are some measures that the time requires, there is very little trust left in those that administer these needs for them to be seen as only temporary.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
May 23, 2020 - 9:10am
kurtster wrote:
I have to give this a yeah, but ... There are many who have seen Civil Liberties held in contempt by a faction and while there are some measures that the time requires, there is very little trust left in those that administer these needs for them to be seen as only temporary. This control is being taken without voting. This faction wants to keep this newly gained control / power over the population. If left unchallenged, it will. It cannot make what is temporary permanent without the consent of the governed. This concern is well founded.
This âfactionâ you are talking about are elected governors, mayors, county commissioners, etc, exercising police powers, are they not? Or are you talking about some nefarious other faction?
But he said he was frustrated that some of his usual allies did not seem to understand that dealing with a novel virus, in a country where no one has immunity, required a different kind of politics.
“Our rights are being violated. That is all actually real,” Stokes said. “But this is one of the few times when that’s OK. Pandemics – these call for a collectivist response. They don’t work without one.”
I have to give this a yeah, but ... There are many who have seen Civil Liberties held in contempt by a faction and while there are some measures that the time requires, there is very little trust left in those that administer these needs for them to be seen as only temporary. This control is being taken without voting. This faction wants to keep this newly gained control / power over the population. If left unchallenged, it will. It cannot make what is temporary permanent without the consent of the governed. This concern is well founded.
Itâs not surprising that Americans, who are used to tackling every problem through the lens of âindividual rightsâ, would struggle with how to respond to the collective demands of a pandemic.
âItâs this mismatch in terms of a social problem, and the tools we have at our disposal to make sense of it,â the sociologist Jennifer Carlson said.
Americans donât have much of a national vocabulary for talking about collective action and sacrifice. Jon Stokes, a gun rights activist from Austin, Texas, has strong opinions about tyranny and freedom. But he said he was frustrated that some of his usual allies did not seem to understand that dealing with a novel virus, in a country where no one has immunity, required a different kind of politics.
âOur rights are being violated. That is all actually real,â Stokes said. âBut this is one of the few times when thatâs OK. Pandemics â these call for a collectivist response. They donât work without one.â
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
May 22, 2020 - 8:50pm
kurtster wrote:
I know of 4. NJ, Il, Pa,and Michigan. That represents nearly 20 % of blue governors. I am paying attention and don't hear the "all blue states" mentioned and I know better anyway. But there are some saying no vaccine, no go. That is troubling because it is unrealistic and represents a sizable portion of similar thinking among the party loyal. I've seen some of the same expressed here. Is what it is.
There is a difference between refusing to lift the âhammerâ before there is a vaccine and governors saying we will not âreturn to normalâ until there is a vaccine. Restrictions are being lifted in phases. Even if all government-imposed restrictions are phased out, people will continue to practice social distancing, with all that entails, and that caution will remain until there is a vaccine or therapeutic breakthroughs.
The goal was to flatten the curve so as not to overwhelm hospitals. That mission has been accomplished as best as I can tell. Now the goal posts are being moved especially with blue governors saying they will keep their hammer down until they get a vaccine. I guess we will see many more of these deaths by despair as a direct result. They may even be more than what the virus accomplishes.
So called "essential workers" will become America's next slaves. They work and risk their lives so no one else has to. That is where this is headed.
Every state has (or will soon have) eased restrictions. In response to questions of "When will things get back to normal?", I believe it was at least three different Democratic governors who expressed that there cannot be a "return to 'normal'" without a vaccine. Fox News and other Conservative outlets misrepresented those responses in out-of-context video clips and soundbites by suggesting that "all blue governors" intend to keep all businesses and activities shut down in their states until there is a vaccine. Of course, using out-of-context clips is not a tactic unique to Conservative outlets. From what I've read it appears that most of the states have very similar timelines, regardless of the party affiliations of their governors.
I know of 4. NJ, Il, Pa,and Michigan. That represents nearly 20 % of blue governors. I am paying attention and don't hear the "all blue states" mentioned and I know better anyway. But there are some saying no vaccine, no go. That is troubling because it is unrealistic and represents a sizable portion of similar thinking among the party loyal. I've seen some of the same expressed here. Is what it is.
And it is being politicized in California by their gov by being really selective of where restrictions are being kept such as my home turf in Orange County. It's been politicized by everybody, regardless of affiliation. That too, is what it is. We'll see and are seeing this play out slowly. We should be seeing some numbers coming in soon from states as they reopen. By the end of June, we should have some very meaningful data.
This article explains how anomalous results (like smokers having lower infection rates in France) can arise from inadvertent data selection in the population studied.Site requires (free) registration, well worth it.
This article explains how anomalous results (like smokers having lower infection rates in France) can arise from inadvertent data selection in the population studied.Site requires (free) registration, well worth it.
A patchwork pandemic is psychologically perilous. The measures that most successfully contain the virusâtesting people, tracing any contacts they might have infected, isolating them from othersâall depend on âhow engaged and invested the population is,â says Justin Lessler, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins. âIf you have all the resources in the world and an antagonistic relationship with the people, youâll fail.â Testing matters only if people agree to get tested. Tracing succeeds only if people pick up the phone. And if those fail, the measure of last resortâsocial distancingâworks only if people agree to sacrifice some personal freedom for the good of others. Such collective actions are aided by collective experiences. What happens when that experience unravels?
it is Trump and his supporters who are politicizing this in the worst way by saying/suggesting that Democratic governors have been imposing unnecessary restrictions and/or refusing to lift restrictions in an effort to damage Trump’s chances for re-election. The state next to me, Maryland, has a Republican governor, Larry Hogan, who has been pretty steadfast in keeping restrictions until certain statistical gateways have been reached. For that, some are calling him a “rino.”
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
May 22, 2020 - 7:09am
Proclivities wrote:
kurtster wrote:
The goal was to flatten the curve so as not to overwhelm hospitals. That mission has been accomplished as best as I can tell. Now the goal posts are being moved especially with blue governors saying they will keep their hammer down until they get a vaccine. I guess we will see many more of these deaths by despair as a direct result. They may even be more than what the virus accomplishes.
So called "essential workers" will become America's next slaves. They work and risk their lives so no one else has to. That is where this is headed.
Every state has (or will soon have) eased restrictions. In response to questions of "When will things get back to normal?", I believe it was at least three different Democratic governors who expressed that there cannot be a "return to 'normal'" without a vaccine. Fox News and other Conservative outlets misrepresented those responses in out-of-context video clips and soundbites by suggesting that "all blue governors" intend to keep all businesses and activities shut down in their states until there is a vaccine. Of course, using out-of-context clips is not a tactic unique to Conservative outlets. From what I've read it appears that most of the states have very similar timelines, regardless of the party affiliations of their governors.
Indeed.
it is Trump and his supporters who are politicizing this in the worst way by saying/suggesting that Democratic governors have been imposing unnecessary restrictions and/or refusing to lift restrictions in an effort to damage Trumpâs chances for re-election. The state next to me, Maryland, has a Republican governor, Larry Hogan, who has been pretty steadfast in keeping restrictions until certain statistical gateways have been reached. For that, some are calling him a ârino.â
I think the Times is picking up on a technical classification (correctly)....but the reality is different. I think Murphy is leaving the "at home" order to ease the state back into opening versus "lifting" the order before it expires June 5. He's probably also happy to be the one who prevents Trump from saying "the entire country is open".
He got lucky that the weather this weekend doesn't look great....beaches won't be as packed as they might have been otherwise.
The goal was to flatten the curve so as not to overwhelm hospitals. That mission has been accomplished as best as I can tell. Now the goal posts are being moved especially with blue governors saying they will keep their hammer down until they get a vaccine. I guess we will see many more of these deaths by despair as a direct result. They may even be more than what the virus accomplishes.
So called "essential workers" will become America's next slaves. They work and risk their lives so no one else has to. That is where this is headed.
Every state has (or will soon have) eased restrictions. In response to questions of "When will things get back to normal?", I believe it was at least three different Democratic governors who expressed that there cannot be a "return to 'normal'" without a vaccine. Fox News and other Conservative outlets misrepresented those responses in out-of-context video clips and soundbites by suggesting that "all blue governors" intend to keep all businesses and activities shut down in their states until there is a vaccine. Of course, using out-of-context clips is not a tactic unique to Conservative outlets. From what I've read it appears that most of the states have very similar timelines, regardless of the party affiliations of their governors.