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Index »
Regional/Local »
Far East »
North Korea
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 Next |
hobiejoe
Location: Still in the tunnel, looking for the light. Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 26, 2010 - 11:59am |
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fidget wrote: hobiejoe wrote:Yup, The Grauniad has it too: Oh, that's alright then, I was beginning to think it was a joke No, that would be the Daily Mail
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fidget
Location: The dreaming spires Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 26, 2010 - 11:43am |
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hobiejoe wrote:Yup, The Grauniad has it too: Oh, that's alright then, I was beginning to think it was a joke
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hobiejoe
Location: Still in the tunnel, looking for the light. Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 26, 2010 - 11:31am |
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Yup, The Grauniad has it too: "Tensions on the Korean peninsula are surging tonight after a South Korean navy ship with 104 crew members on board sank off the coast of North Korea following an unexplained explosion, according to the South Korean Yonhap news agency. A second South Korean ship reportedly fired at an unidentified vessel sailing away from the area towards North Korea. The South Korean government convened an emergency meeting of security chiefs, as Seoul investigated whether the stricken vessel had been struck by a torpedo from a North Korean craft...more
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geordiezimmerman
Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 26, 2010 - 10:16am |
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If the stories that are circulating that N Korea was involved in this are true, this could really spell big trouble for a lot of people. Link
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Manbird
Location: ? ? ? Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 1:40pm |
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hippiechick wrote:My mother used to say "Those Zylberbergs are such social climbers!"
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hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 1:29pm |
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kurtster wrote:
Ya, Joel is the late Sen. Howard Metzembaum's son in law. He founded Hyatt Legal Clinics here in Cleveland, one of the first of its kind. He got big time and boogied from Cleveland.
My mother used to say "Those Zylberbergs are such social climbers!"
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 1:20pm |
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hippiechick wrote:
My former childhood next door neighbor, Joel Zylberberg, now Hyatt, is his partner.
Ya, Joel is the late Sen. Howard Metzembaum's son in law. He founded Hyatt Legal Clinics here in Cleveland, one of the first of its kind. He got big time and boogied from Cleveland.
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Servo
Location: Down on the Farm Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:40pm |
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Zep wrote:I read that Dear Leader himself asked for President Clinton.
musiclife wrote:I've read several articles that say that Kim specifically asked for Bill Clinton..
If Kim stated terms where the presence of Bill Clinton was mandatory, and the hostages then asked for the presence of Bill Clinton, does Clinton's presence serve the will of the hostages at least as much as that of Kim? From what I can see, the mission (getting the hostages home) was accomplished without giving a tyrant (Kim) one inch. I'm fine with that. From what I see, this was done correctly...ethically, morally and legally, every bit as much as Iran/Contra was done wrong.
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Servo
Location: Down on the Farm Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:31pm |
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cc_rider wrote:Fair enough. Sounds reasonable to me. I just hadn't read anything about the process. Nice Rev. Jackson reference though!
I calls 'em as I see 'em...
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musiclife
Location: Texas Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:28pm |
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Servo wrote: First of all, the hostages requested Bill Clinton. That came directly from the captive hostages, not the White House, and not Bill Clinton.
I've read several articles that say that Kim specifically asked for Bill Clinton.. That's the version I believe.... from the sources that I've read.. Of course, you can believe any version you choose. Whatever...
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Zep
Location: Funkytown
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:16pm |
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Servo wrote:First of all, the hostages requested Bill Clinton. That came directly from the captive hostages, not the White House, and not Bill Clinton.
I read that Dear Leader himself asked for President Clinton.
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cc_rider
Location: Bastrop Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:16pm |
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Servo wrote:First of all, the hostages requested Bill Clinton. That came directly from the captive hostages, not the White House, and not Bill Clinton. Although President Clinton was quoted as saying that he went "because President Obama asked" him to do so, there is no evidence that Clinton was in any way an official US emissary. His plane did not come from the SAM inventory. When it comes to matters of protocol and hot-button international affairs, I would expect a former POTUS to discuss the matter with the sitting POTUS, and only go with the sitting President's blessing. (ie. Bill Clinton is not Jesse Jackson ) But it's pretty clear from the news that Obama didn't send Clinton to make a deal. In fact, all parties were mighty emphatic that nothing whatsoever was traded for the hostages. (ie. Barack Obama is not Ronald Reagan.) Fair enough. Sounds reasonable to me. I just hadn't read anything about the process. Nice Rev. Jackson reference though!
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hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:15pm |
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Servo wrote: I was proud to see Al Gore by Bill Clinton's side. Great Symmetry there!
(FYI— for those who don't know, the hostages work for Gore's TV network.)
Hey Servo! Nice to see you again. My former childhood next door neighbor, Joel Zylberberg, now Hyatt, is his partner.
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Servo
Location: Down on the Farm Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:12pm |
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musiclife wrote:I was so proud that President Bill Clinton did this.. I was proud to see Al Gore by Bill Clinton's side. Great Symmetry there! (FYI— for those who don't know, the hostages work for Gore's TV network.)
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Servo
Location: Down on the Farm Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 12:09pm |
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cc_rider wrote:...I wonder how involved Pres. Obama was in the process. Did he go to Bill and ask him to do it, or did Bill just jump on a plane and go?
First of all, the hostages requested Bill Clinton. That came directly from the captive hostages, not the White House, and not Bill Clinton. Although President Clinton was quoted as saying that he went "because President Obama asked" him to do so, there is no evidence that Clinton was in any way an official US emissary. His plane did not come from the SAM inventory. When it comes to matters of protocol and hot-button international affairs, I would expect a former POTUS to discuss the matter with the sitting POTUS, and only go with the sitting President's blessing. (ie. Bill Clinton is not Jesse Jackson ) But it's pretty clear from the news that Obama didn't send Clinton to make a deal. In fact, all parties were mighty emphatic that nothing whatsoever was traded for the hostages. (ie. Barack Obama is not Ronald Reagan.)
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cc_rider
Location: Bastrop Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 8:38am |
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steeler wrote:Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea to bring back the 2 journalist hostages was a stroke of brilliance. You can see from the photos of Bill and Kim Jong seated next to each other that Jong saw this as some kind of coup for him. A meeting with a former U.S. President. However, Bill was in and out of there so quickly that I seriously doubt anyone else in the world saw it as anything more than it was — I'll go there to get these 2 women out of there. If photos of me sitting stone-faced next to Jong is the price, well, that's cheap. Why buy into the game North Korea has been playing for years — that if you in any manner recognize us, you are in some manner condoning our practices. That's an outmoded way of thinking, one that never really made much sense to me. Let Jong try to put a propaganda spin on this. No one is buying. Meeting with someone is not a concession of anything. We got 2 hostages released with nothing more than a long jet flight for Bill to and from North Korea. While I do not question the tactic or the results, I wonder how involved Pres. Obama was in the process. Did he go to Bill and ask him to do it, or did Bill just jump on a plane and go? Ex-Prezzes have been known to 'go rogue', for better and for worse, I'm just wondering. Obviously I have not read any of the media about the incident. Regardless, stiller's analysis seems pretty much on target. Give the spoiled brat KJI just enough attention to keep him from throwing a dangerous tantrum, but not enough to make him think he's a serious player. Sending Bill, instead of, say, Joe, gives the situation just the right amount of credibility.
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Zep
Location: Funkytown
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 8:37am |
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There are some back story details reported today.
The two journalists were allowed to periodically call home from their prison in North Korea. Before one of those calls, the Koreans told the women that they would be granted amnesty if Bill Clinton would come get them. That was passed along, eventually to Al Gore, then to Clinton, who coordinated the trip with the White House. Apparently, Kim specifically asked for the former president.
The Americans had to work with the Chinese, Japanese, and Russians to provide assurances that Clinton's trip would not turn into a bilateral discussion on Kim's nuclear program. There would have been precious little time and no preparation for such talks anyway. Clinton did bring up the topic of South Korean citizens who have been kidnapped to the north.
For now, it looks like very little political capital was spent. Photos of a former US president and the current North Korean dictator were no doubt spread across the world, and domestically, Kim can pretty much do or say anything he wants with it. He has not yet asked for any quid pro quo, although resumption of the six-party talks is high on the list of potential considerations.
As Kurt mentioned below, the trip provides a fascinating peek behind the door into North Korea, and everybody who went along will have much to report. No doubt Kim realised this, and considered that his gain, whatever that may be, would outweigh that.
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hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 8:30am |
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musiclife wrote:I was so proud that President Bill Clinton did this.. He is DA MAN!!!!!!!!
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musiclife
Location: Texas Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 - 8:26am |
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I was so proud that President Bill Clinton did this..
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Aug 5, 2009 - 5:26pm |
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steeler wrote:Sending Bill Clinton to North Korea to bring back the 2 journalist hostages was a stroke of brilliance. You can see from the photos of Bill and Kim Jong seated next to each other that Jong saw this as some kind of coup for him. A meeting with a former U.S. President. However, Bill was in and out of there so quickly that I seriously doubt anyone else in the world saw it as anything more than it was — I'll go there to get these 2 women out of there. If photos of me sitting stone-faced next to Jong is the price, well, that's cheap. Why buy into the game North Korea has been playing for years — that if you in any manner recognize us, you are in some manner condoning our practices. That's an outmoded way of thinking, one that never really made much sense to me. Let Jong try to put a propaganda spin on this. No one is buying. Meeting with someone is not a concession of anything. We got 2 hostages released with nothing more than a long jet flight for Bill to and from North Korea. Bonus feature is that we (the US) actually got a first hand look at Kim and should have come home with some greater insight as to how shots are being called in NK. That makes it a win / win.
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