[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

RP app for LG OLED TV - jarro - Feb 4, 2023 - 6:59pm
 
Things I Saw Today... - Coaxial - Feb 4, 2023 - 6:20pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - Red_Dragon - Feb 4, 2023 - 6:13pm
 
Remembering Duane Allman - oldviolin - Feb 4, 2023 - 5:59pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - oldviolin - Feb 4, 2023 - 5:09pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Feb 4, 2023 - 5:07pm
 
Audio Settings - 2020xradio - Feb 4, 2023 - 4:54pm
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Feb 4, 2023 - 4:26pm
 
China - Red_Dragon - Feb 4, 2023 - 2:58pm
 
Wordle - daily game - Manbird - Feb 4, 2023 - 2:31pm
 
Ukraine - westslope - Feb 4, 2023 - 1:13pm
 
USA! USA! USA! - R_P - Feb 4, 2023 - 12:34pm
 
Better Playlist - VV - Feb 4, 2023 - 12:33pm
 
Immigration - R_P - Feb 4, 2023 - 11:56am
 
The Abortion Wars - R_P - Feb 4, 2023 - 11:32am
 
COVID-19 - Red_Dragon - Feb 4, 2023 - 10:53am
 
Omitted from Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - Proclivities - Feb 4, 2023 - 10:06am
 
Annoying stuff. not things that piss you off, just annoyi... - Coaxial - Feb 4, 2023 - 9:31am
 
February 2023 Photo Theme - Odd Perspectives - Antigone - Feb 4, 2023 - 5:11am
 
It's the economy stupid. - Isabeau - Feb 4, 2023 - 4:07am
 
Casting from the app.... - cbemoore - Feb 4, 2023 - 1:30am
 
Linking to "What's Playing" - ladron - Feb 3, 2023 - 6:41pm
 
Out the window - GeneP59 - Feb 3, 2023 - 2:17pm
 
TV shows you watch - kcar - Feb 3, 2023 - 1:31pm
 
Love is... - Isabeau - Feb 3, 2023 - 1:12pm
 
Music To Get A Haircut To - Red_Dragon - Feb 3, 2023 - 11:58am
 
R.I.P. Jeff Beck - black321 - Feb 3, 2023 - 11:53am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Feb 3, 2023 - 10:49am
 
Today in History - GeneP59 - Feb 3, 2023 - 10:45am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - GeneP59 - Feb 3, 2023 - 10:34am
 
Eclectic Sound-Drops - Peyote - Feb 3, 2023 - 9:54am
 
I want an iPhone!!! - Steely_D - Feb 3, 2023 - 9:49am
 
American History - rgio - Feb 3, 2023 - 6:12am
 
Outstanding Covers - miamizsun - Feb 3, 2023 - 3:54am
 
Things You Thought Today - GeneP59 - Feb 2, 2023 - 8:19pm
 
Evolution! - R_P - Feb 2, 2023 - 5:29pm
 
Guns - westslope - Feb 2, 2023 - 3:42pm
 
Canada - westslope - Feb 2, 2023 - 3:19pm
 
RightWingNutZ - Isabeau - Feb 2, 2023 - 1:18pm
 
More reggae, less Marley please - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Feb 2, 2023 - 10:30am
 
Podcast recommendations??? - marko86 - Feb 2, 2023 - 8:51am
 
Let's build a city - Red_Dragon - Feb 2, 2023 - 8:46am
 
How to Sync to Current Feed? - otto802 - Feb 2, 2023 - 8:13am
 
Upcoming concerts or shows you can't wait to see - Antigone - Feb 2, 2023 - 7:13am
 
Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? - Steve - Feb 2, 2023 - 6:40am
 
Work - sunybuny - Feb 2, 2023 - 5:53am
 
Race in America - R_P - Feb 1, 2023 - 8:42pm
 
NASA & other news from space - Steely_D - Feb 1, 2023 - 8:03pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - Steely_D - Feb 1, 2023 - 7:50pm
 
Derplahoma! - ScottFromWyoming - Feb 1, 2023 - 7:30pm
 
RP App for Android - nickferrante10 - Feb 1, 2023 - 11:11am
 
The end of the world - miamizsun - Feb 1, 2023 - 7:17am
 
Live Music - Steve - Feb 1, 2023 - 6:17am
 
January 2023 Photo Theme - Friends - Coaxial - Feb 1, 2023 - 5:30am
 
Lyrics that are stuck in your head today... - oldviolin - Jan 31, 2023 - 6:23pm
 
Revelation,Armageddon, the end of the world (we can stop ... - oldviolin - Jan 31, 2023 - 6:16pm
 
• • • Things Magicians Exclaim • • •  - oldviolin - Jan 31, 2023 - 5:37pm
 
What Makes You Cry :) ? - oldviolin - Jan 31, 2023 - 4:33pm
 
What the hell OV? - oldviolin - Jan 31, 2023 - 3:39pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - miamizsun - Jan 31, 2023 - 2:14pm
 
Post your favorite 'You Tube' Videos Here - Manbird - Jan 31, 2023 - 1:53pm
 
Germany - R_P - Jan 31, 2023 - 1:33pm
 
Economix - westslope - Jan 31, 2023 - 1:28pm
 
• • • • Name My Possum • • • - Bill_J - Jan 31, 2023 - 11:51am
 
The Obituary Page - GeneP59 - Jan 31, 2023 - 9:21am
 
Surfing! - kurtster - Jan 31, 2023 - 4:17am
 
Beer - DaveInSaoMiguel - Jan 30, 2023 - 1:57pm
 
Are you ready for some football? - cc_rider - Jan 30, 2023 - 8:02am
 
Florida - miamizsun - Jan 30, 2023 - 4:18am
 
SCOTUS - Red_Dragon - Jan 29, 2023 - 2:43pm
 
New Music - haresfur - Jan 29, 2023 - 12:34pm
 
Pretty Darn Good Bass Lines - among the best.... - miamizsun - Jan 29, 2023 - 8:28am
 
Bad Poetry - miamizsun - Jan 29, 2023 - 7:41am
 
Audials - roger.holroyd1217 - Jan 29, 2023 - 3:31am
 
The strange tale of KFAT - oldviolin - Jan 28, 2023 - 8:57pm
 
Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 78, 79, 80, 81, 82  Next
Post to this Topic
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 25, 2014 - 10:36am

How the Media Got Played ... Again
The US Played Hardball Against Ukraine…and the EU

When the EU mediated a deal between the opposition and the government, I thought Yanukovich had dodged the bullet.

Not quite.

In parsing the circumstances of Yanukovich’s downfall, it is interesting to look for the machinations of Victoria Nuland, the State Department neo-con (wife of Robert Kagan) who was apparently given a free hand in matters Ukraine by President Obama.

(...)

It is rather ironic that Barack Obama, the progressive paragon, took a few hits from the Dick Cheney regime-change crack pipe, and now apparently finds it irresistible.

Maybe he feels that he might as well grab for a few cheap foreign policy wins, damn the consequences, because in two years he’s outta here and President Clinton can deal with the mess.

I imagine that Alfred Nobel’s image on President Obama’s Peace Prize medal is weeping blood tears by now.


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 25, 2014 - 10:19am

Could we wind up with Right Bank and Left Bank again?
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 24, 2014 - 5:21am

oh snap
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 11:01am


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 9:05am

(...) “Among the reasons Mr. Yanukovych turned away from signing political and trade accords with Europe in November was his unwillingness to carry out painful austerity measures and other reforms that had been demanded by the International Monetary Fund in exchange for a large assistance package.On Sunday, the Fund’s managing director, Christine Lagarde, said that there was concern about the political instability in Ukraine and that the fund could only provide assistance in response to a formal request.

Speaking at the end of a meeting of the Group of 20 finance ministers and central bank governors in Sydney, Australia, Ms. Lagarde said, “If the Ukrainian authorities were to ask for I.M.F. support, whether it is policy advice, whether it is financial support together with economic reform discussions, we would be ready to do that.”

But, she said, “We need to have somebody to talk to because any discussion takes two.”

Ms. Lagarde added that an economic program to help Ukraine had to be “owned by the authorities, by the people, because at the end of the day it will be the future of the Ukrainian economy.”

The I.M.F. has extended help to Ukraine in the past, but has expressed reluctance to do so again because the Ukrainian government repeatedly failed to carry out agreed-upon reforms.” (...)

http://nyti.ms/1mnkLA2


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 8:41am

 RichardPrins wrote:

EU/IMF/US. That might address one aspect of the problem, but is likely to mean the population might get saddled with more massive debt (and followed by austerity?).

Regardless, that doesn't address the (alleged) two cultures in Ukraine, Pro-Western West and Pro-Russian East, which likely can't be solved that 'easily' by throwing cash at it.

 
I have to back up and recall that someone(s) somewhere has a plan.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 8:39am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

So the EU - that at least tacitly approved of the revolution - had better put their money where their mouth is now.

 
EU/IMF/US. That might address one aspect of the problem, but is likely to mean the population will get saddled with more massive debt (and followed by privatization and austerity).

Regardless, that doesn't address the (alleged) two cultures in Ukraine, Pro-Western West and Pro-Russian East, which likely can't be solved that 'easily' by throwing cash at it.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 8:13am

 RichardPrins wrote:
I don't think it is quite over yet, but we'll have to see...

Another different view...

Ukraine’s Crisis, Not Ours by Patrick J. Buchanan — Antiwar.com

Another article I read somewhere, probably RT, reported Russia has closed the financial faucet in response, which was to be expected.

 
So the EU - that at least tacitly approved of the revolution - had better put their money where their mouth is now.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 8:00am

I don't think it is quite over yet, but we'll have to see...

Another different view...

Ukraine’s Crisis, Not Ours by Patrick J. Buchanan — Antiwar.com

Another article I read somewhere, probably RT, reported Russia has closed the financial faucet in response, which was to be expected.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 6:49am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
it seems as if the Ukrainian Revolution has been successful. interesting, given the fact that only the losing side had any firearms... {#Think}

 
just a couple of random thoughts

the masses have the numbers on their side and they're obviously willing to sacrifice their lives/everything but for what?

if they don't understand the true root causes of their problems, this will be a "reset" and the same cycle will start all over again

centralized or concentrated power without a clear charter or guidelines usually (on a long enough timeline) leads to corruption

swapping one bad ideology for another is like meet the new boss same as the old boss (eventually)

corrupt rulers with a monopoly on the initiation of force/violence isn't going to produce the desired results for the masses

just think if the ukraine was the weapons dealer to the world (like the US) and had the weapons/technology that the US govt has

and ask if things would have turned out differently

peace
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 23, 2014 - 6:05am

it seems as if the Ukrainian Revolution has been successful. interesting, given the fact that only the losing side had any firearms... {#Think}
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2014 - 12:50am

 RichardPrins wrote:

I guess you missed the part of the already existing divisions in Ukraine.

I am sure some of the factions want what "we in the west take for granted", even though we don't actually necessarily have that accountability everywhere either (we increasingly suffer from corruption, like for instance Russia does under the kleptocrat Putin, but in a different degree). Other factions, from what I've gathered, already include fascist and nationalist thugs.

Sure Russia has a "national interest" as well, as discussed there, and produces propaganda, like any other country does to serve that nation interest.

So lots of countries in Europe aren't doing good because of a brain drain? Haven't heard that one before.

So I guess in your "highly esteemed opinion" the interpretation of what was said in those "tapes" is completely baseless?

Who knew you dealt with rats? {#Mrgreen}

 
The European Union collocates two entirely different concepts and that is not necessarily a good thing. The first is the European idea dating back to the Enlightenment and the enshrinement of basic freedoms and rights which is strangely appealing to the rest of the world too it seems. The second is economic and political entanglement under one union to dismantle nationalist tendencies, encourage the European idea, and, unfortunately, encourage a flow of economic and human resources to the large European economic centers. Whether this latter point was actually intended or not is a moot point but it is de facto what is happening.
I am pretty well aware of how splintered Ukrainian society, after all I live in one of those big European economic centers and surprise, surprise, there are a lot of really cool bright young Ukranians living here.

I am glad you liked my highly esteemed opinion. (I work diligently on that every morning with a can of brasso.) ... and no nothing is completely baseless. All of us are trying to see the truth wearing glasses in a sandstorm. ;-)

So how many rats would you like? There's a bit of a glut on the rat market at the moment. Rats everywhere!
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 21, 2014 - 12:08am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Sorry, but in my highly esteemed opinion, this guy is totally off his head. The entire eastern bloc is still undergoing a transition to modern democracy and is less and less forgiving of questionably elected leaders who are clearly products of the ancient soviet past than modern bumbling bureaucrats (like Angela Merkel). This current protest movement is most definitely a movement of the people and not caused by foreign powers.

The argument  he makes that by offering the Ukrainians a trade pact the Europeans caused all this trouble is a glaring non-sequitur because it is based on the premise that what the Europeans were offering is exactly what the people (at least the people in the western half of the country) want.  Naughty, naughty Europeans, how could they?!

I am more open to the idea that integration in the EU might not actually do the country any good (as a lot of other EU countries aren't doing particularly good right now as their talent gets sucked up the UK and Germany) but that is a secondary issue to what's at stake here. What the protesters want is a modern state that guarantees them modern freedoms and allows them to hold their politicians accountable. All those things that we in the west take for granted.

This is also why this issue is so sensitive. Putin knows there is a large groundswell in Russia that is heading the same way and that his days are actually numbered. In my experience rats in corners start getting pretty vicious. He is likely to stir up nationalist sentiment just to keep in power and that is precisely what the Russian propaganda machine is currently doing, and they can conveniently sacrifice the Ukrainians to do it.
 
I guess you missed the part of the already existing divisions in Ukraine.

I am sure some of the factions want what "we in the west take for granted", even though we don't actually necessarily have that accountability everywhere either (we increasingly suffer from corruption, like for instance Russia does under the kleptocrat Putin, but in a different degree). Other factions, from what I've gathered, already include fascist and nationalist thugs.

Sure Russia has a "national interest" as well, as discussed there, and produces propaganda, like any other country does to serve that "national interest". And it would benefit (by distraction) from fomenting what might turn into a civil war in a bordering nation?

So lots of countries in Europe aren't doing good because of a brain drain? Haven't heard that one before.

So I guess in your "highly esteemed opinion" the interpretation of what was said in those "tapes" is completely baseless?

Who knew you dealt with rats? {#Mrgreen}
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2014 - 10:59pm

 RichardPrins wrote: 
Sorry, but in my highly esteemed opinion, this guy is totally off his head. The entire eastern bloc is still undergoing a transition to modern democracy and is less and less forgiving of questionably elected leaders who are clearly products of the ancient soviet past than modern bumbling bureaucrats (like Angela Merkel). This current protest movement is most definitely a movement of the people and not caused by foreign powers.

The argument  he makes that by offering the Ukrainians a trade pact the Europeans caused all this trouble is a glaring non-sequitur because it is based on the premise that what the Europeans were offering is exactly what the people (at least the people in the western half of the country) want.  Naughty, naughty Europeans, how could they?!

I am more open to the idea that integration in the EU might not actually do the country any good (as a lot of other EU countries aren't doing particularly good right now as their talent gets sucked up the UK and Germany) but that is a secondary issue to what's at stake here. What the protesters want is a modern state that guarantees them modern freedoms and allows them to hold their politicians accountable. All those things that we in the west take for granted.

This is also why this issue is so sensitive. Putin knows there is a large groundswell in Russia that is heading the same way and that his days are actually numbered. In my experience rats in corners start getting pretty vicious. He is likely to stir up nationalist sentiment just to keep in power and that is precisely what the Russian propaganda machine is currently doing, and they can conveniently sacrifice the Ukrainians to do it.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 20, 2014 - 8:55am

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup | Democracy Now!

helenofjoy

helenofjoy Avatar

Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 18, 2014 - 5:26pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
Nine Dead as Mayhem Grips Ukrainian Capital - NYTimes.com

KIEV, Ukraine — Mayhem gripped the center of the Ukrainian capital on Tuesday evening as riot police officers tried to drive two armored personnel carriers through stone-reinforced barriers in Independence Square, the focal point of more than two months of protests against President Viktor F. Yanukovych.

Pelted by rocks and fireworks, the vehicles became stuck in the massive barricades outside the Khreschatyk Hotel and burst into flames, apparently trapping the security officers inside, prompting desperate rescue efforts from their colleagues.

In the course of wild day of parries and thrusts by the protesters and the police, the authorities in Kiev reported nine people killed, including two police officers. It was the bloodiest day of violence since President Yanukovych spurned a trade deal with Europe in November and set of protests that began peacefully but have since involved occasional spasms of deadly violence. (...)



 
This is horrible.  No good can come of this.  I've been trying to follow this as much as time allows.  This is going to be touchy.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 18, 2014 - 11:16am

Nine Dead as Mayhem Grips Ukrainian Capital - NYTimes.com

KIEV, Ukraine — Mayhem gripped the center of the Ukrainian capital on Tuesday evening as riot police officers tried to drive two armored personnel carriers through stone-reinforced barriers in Independence Square, the focal point of more than two months of protests against President Viktor F. Yanukovych.

Pelted by rocks and fireworks, the vehicles became stuck in the massive barricades outside the Khreschatyk Hotel and burst into flames, apparently trapping the security officers inside, prompting desperate rescue efforts from their colleagues.

In the course of wild day of parries and thrusts by the protesters and the police, the authorities in Kiev reported nine people killed, including two police officers. It was the bloodiest day of violence since President Yanukovych spurned a trade deal with Europe in November and set of protests that began peacefully but have since involved occasional spasms of deadly violence. (...)


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 6, 2014 - 1:37pm

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Leaked phone call embarrasses US

ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 29, 2014 - 8:39am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
Very good analysis, but there is a long way to go with a series of unpredictable events to happen before anyone can claim to know what the end game is, imo.  I study/follow Ukrainian affairs fairly closely.  I have Ukrainian friends here and there.  Their opinion, and mine, is that the end game may be a division of the country—to avoid a civil war that nobody wants to see occur.  The pro west, western part of the country, including Kiev, stays Ukraine and forges stronger ties with EU Europe.  The pro-Russian east becomes a Russian client state similar to Belarus. There will be stress and contention over Crimea.  Russia will leverage intensely to maintain a naval presence and port.  Black Sea access is VERY important to them.  They have a nuclear submarine base in Ukraine on the Black Sea, currently, I believe.

Moldova (a small, very poor country) is in the middle of this too.  But they should have their own forum.

The Gov't resignation is important.  But what President Yanukovych decides will be the major pressing issue.  Are his hands tied?  Will he resign? Coup?  Stay tuned.


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jan 28, 2014 - 9:24am

end game
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 78, 79, 80, 81, 82  Next