NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
I suppose it was inevitable. The older I get, the more disgusted I get at people who think violence is the answer to anything.

oh no, here we go...

Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked the upper house of parliament to approve sending armed forces to Ukraine’s Crimea region, the Kremlin said in a statement on Saturday. “In connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots, and the personnel of the armed forces of the Russian Federation on Ukrainian territory (in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea) ... I submit a proposal on using the armed forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine until the normalisation of the socio-political situation in the that country,” the statement said.

these guys look like Russian marines or airborne troops to me.

Ukraine PM says $37 billion went missing under Yanukovich | Reuters

(...) The average salary in Ukraine is around $500 a month.

In addition to the missing $37 billion, Yatseniuk (The New No. 1) said as much as $70 billion had been sent out of the country during Yanukovich's three-year rule, although he did not make clear how much of this capital flight was illegal.

"I want to report to you - the state treasury has been robbed and is empty," he said before the national assembly voted him in as head of a national unity government.

"Thirty-seven billion dollars of credit received have disappeared in an unknown direction ... (and) the sum of 70 billion dollars was paid out of Ukraine's financial system into off-shore accounts."

At today's rate, $70 billion is equal to about half Ukraine's gross domestic product in 2013. (...)

New Ukraine Government Asks U.N. to Help Ease Crisis

Facing the threat of a potentially bloody breakup of its country, Ukraine's fledgling government this morning appealed to the U.N. Security Council to convene an emergency session to pursue a diplomatic settlement to the crisis in Ukraine.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports

Ukraine has accused Russia of carrying out an armed invasion by sending naval forces to occupy Sevastopol airport in the Crimea region.

Russia's Black Sea Fleet denies its servicemen are blocking the airport.

Another Crimean airport, Simferopol, has also been occupied by armed men, thought to be pro-Russia militia.

Relations between the two countries have been strained since Viktor Yanukovych was ousted as Ukrainian president last week.

Mr Yanukovych is now in Russia and expected to hold a news conference later in the city of Rostov-on-Don, near the Ukrainian border.

He disappeared after leaving office but resurfaced in Russia on Thursday, asserting that he is still Ukraine's lawful president.

Ukraine's general prosecutor has said he will ask Russia to extradite Mr Yanukovych, if it is confirmed that he is still there. (...)

Scuffles as pro- and anti-Russian crowds protest in Ukraine's Crimea — RT News

Thousands of pro- and anti-Russian protesters are rallying in front of the parliament building in Simferpol, the capital of Ukraine's autonomous Crimea region.

The rival groups are protesting for and against the new national authorities in Kiev. Part of the residents proclaimed that Crimea will not going to obey Kiev, while the local Muslim community of Crimean Tatars expressed support for the new Ukrainian authorities.

Demonstrators from Russian-dominated Sevastopol, the largest city in Crimea, are arriving at the region’s capital Simferopol, in the center of the Crimea peninsula, to support thousands of Russian nationals rallying against the new authorities in Kiev.

Two separate rallies, consisting of several thousands of protesters, are facing each other, with the Tatars shouting ‘Ukraine!’ and the Russians shouting ‘Russia!’ Video footage from the scene appears to show that both sides are preparing for a clash. According to some reports, police who were separating the two sides have left the scene.

Crimeans started protesting on Tuesday outside the regional parliament building in Simferopol, urging local MPs not to support Kiev’s new government. Demonstrators want the autonomous region to return to the constitution of 1992, under which Crimea had its own president and independent foreign policy.

In addition, the protesters demanded a referendum be held to decide whether Crimea should retain its current status as an autonomous region in Ukraine, to become independent, or become part of Russia again (Crimea was part of Russia until 1954).

An interim government was established over the weekend in Kiev. The Ukrainian parliament elected Aleksandr Turchinov as interim president and scheduled presidential elections for May 25. Ousted President Viktor Yanukovich, whose whereabouts remain unknown, has decried the decisions of the interim government as “illegal” and said the unrest in the Ukrainian capital bears all the hallmarks of a coup d’état.

How the Media Got Played ... Again
The US Played Hardball Against Ukraine…and the EU

When the EU mediated a deal between the opposition and the government, I thought Yanukovich had dodged the bullet.

Not quite.

In parsing the circumstances of Yanukovich’s downfall, it is interesting to look for the machinations of Victoria Nuland, the State Department neo-con (wife of Robert Kagan) who was apparently given a free hand in matters Ukraine by President Obama.

(...)

It is rather ironic that Barack Obama, the progressive paragon, took a few hits from the Dick Cheney regime-change crack pipe, and now apparently finds it irresistible.

Maybe he feels that he might as well grab for a few cheap foreign policy wins, damn the consequences, because in two years he’s outta here and President Clinton can deal with the mess.

I imagine that Alfred Nobel’s image on President Obama’s Peace Prize medal is weeping blood tears by now.

Could we wind up with Right Bank and Left Bank again?

oh snap

(...) “Among the reasons Mr. Yanukovych turned away from signing political and trade accords with Europe in November was his unwillingness to carry out painful austerity measures and other reforms that had been demanded by the International Monetary Fund in exchange for a large assistance package.On Sunday, the Fund’s managing director, Christine Lagarde, said that there was concern about the political instability in Ukraine and that the fund could only provide assistance in response to a formal request.

Speaking at the end of a meeting of the Group of 20 finance ministers and central bank governors in Sydney, Australia, Ms. Lagarde said, “If the Ukrainian authorities were to ask for I.M.F. support, whether it is policy advice, whether it is financial support together with economic reform discussions, we would be ready to do that.”

But, she said, “We need to have somebody to talk to because any discussion takes two.”

Ms. Lagarde added that an economic program to help Ukraine had to be “owned by the authorities, by the people, because at the end of the day it will be the future of the Ukrainian economy.”

The I.M.F. has extended help to Ukraine in the past, but has expressed reluctance to do so again because the Ukrainian government repeatedly failed to carry out agreed-upon reforms.” (...)

http://nyti.ms/1mnkLA2

 RichardPrins wrote: 
I have to back up and recall that someone(s) somewhere has a plan.

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
EU/IMF/US. That might address one aspect of the problem, but is likely to mean the population will get saddled with more massive debt (and followed by privatization and austerity).

Regardless, that doesn't address the (alleged) two cultures in Ukraine, Pro-Western West and Pro-Russian East, which likely can't be solved that 'easily' by throwing cash at it.

 RichardPrins wrote: 
So the EU - that at least tacitly approved of the revolution - had better put their money where their mouth is now.

I don't think it is quite over yet, but we'll have to see...

Another different view...

Ukraine’s Crisis, Not Ours by Patrick J. Buchanan — Antiwar.com

Another article I read somewhere, probably RT, reported Russia has closed the financial faucet in response, which was to be expected.

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
just a couple of random thoughts

the masses have the numbers on their side and they're obviously willing to sacrifice their lives/everything but for what?

if they don't understand the true root causes of their problems, this will be a "reset" and the same cycle will start all over again

centralized or concentrated power without a clear charter or guidelines usually (on a long enough timeline) leads to corruption

swapping one bad ideology for another is like meet the new boss same as the old boss (eventually)

corrupt rulers with a monopoly on the initiation of force/violence isn't going to produce the desired results for the masses

just think if the ukraine was the weapons dealer to the world (like the US) and had the weapons/technology that the US govt has

and ask if things would have turned out differently

peace

it seems as if the Ukrainian Revolution has been successful. interesting, given the fact that only the losing side had any firearms... 

 RichardPrins wrote: 
The European Union collocates two entirely different concepts and that is not necessarily a good thing. The first is the European idea dating back to the Enlightenment and the enshrinement of basic freedoms and rights which is strangely appealing to the rest of the world too it seems. The second is economic and political entanglement under one union to dismantle nationalist tendencies, encourage the European idea, and, unfortunately, encourage a flow of economic and human resources to the large European economic centers. Whether this latter point was actually intended or not is a moot point but it is de facto what is happening.
I am pretty well aware of how splintered Ukrainian society, after all I live in one of those big European economic centers and surprise, surprise, there are a lot of really cool bright young Ukranians living here.

I am glad you liked my highly esteemed opinion. (I work diligently on that every morning with a can of brasso.) ... and no nothing is completely baseless. All of us are trying to see the truth wearing glasses in a sandstorm. ;-)

So how many rats would you like? There's a bit of a glut on the rat market at the moment. Rats everywhere!

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
I guess you missed the part of the already existing divisions in Ukraine.

I am sure some of the factions want what "we in the west take for granted", even though we don't actually necessarily have that accountability everywhere either (we increasingly suffer from corruption, like for instance Russia does under the kleptocrat Putin, but in a different degree). Other factions, from what I've gathered, already include fascist and nationalist thugs.

Sure Russia has a "national interest" as well, as discussed there, and produces propaganda, like any other country does to serve that "national interest". And it would benefit (by distraction) from fomenting what might turn into a civil war in a bordering nation?

So lots of countries in Europe aren't doing good because of a brain drain? Haven't heard that one before.

So I guess in your "highly esteemed opinion" the interpretation of what was said in those "tapes" is completely baseless?

Who knew you dealt with rats?

 RichardPrins wrote: 
Sorry, but in my highly esteemed opinion, this guy is totally off his head. The entire eastern bloc is still undergoing a transition to modern democracy and is less and less forgiving of questionably elected leaders who are clearly products of the ancient soviet past than modern bumbling bureaucrats (like Angela Merkel). This current protest movement is most definitely a movement of the people and not caused by foreign powers.

The argument  he makes that by offering the Ukrainians a trade pact the Europeans caused all this trouble is a glaring non-sequitur because it is based on the premise that what the Europeans were offering is exactly what the people (at least the people in the western half of the country) want.  Naughty, naughty Europeans, how could they?!

I am more open to the idea that integration in the EU might not actually do the country any good (as a lot of other EU countries aren't doing particularly good right now as their talent gets sucked up the UK and Germany) but that is a secondary issue to what's at stake here. What the protesters want is a modern state that guarantees them modern freedoms and allows them to hold their politicians accountable. All those things that we in the west take for granted.

This is also why this issue is so sensitive. Putin knows there is a large groundswell in Russia that is heading the same way and that his days are actually numbered. In my experience rats in corners start getting pretty vicious. He is likely to stir up nationalist sentiment just to keep in power and that is precisely what the Russian propaganda machine is currently doing, and they can conveniently sacrifice the Ukrainians to do it.

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup | Democracy Now!