ScottN wrote: 

I am confused, you like a bill that is motivating parents to send their kids north at great peril or are you saying that this bill does not do that as the Democrats claim??

 kurtster wrote:First, you are the one who constantly brings Obama in at every opportunity. 

Keep your crises straight.  You keep refering to Obama allowing an invasion, implying that the great influx of kids into Texas is an Obama enabled phenomenon.  In fact, it is a W. sponsored bill (which I happen to like) that is motivating parents to send their kids north...at great peril.  Think for a moment how bad the situation must be in Central America, especially Honduras, to motivate parents, who dearly love their kids btw, to send them to us...alone.  We haven't been, and should not, simply immediately deport them, or even prevent them from arriving.  We need to work at the source.

These are children!  While it cannot be allowed to go on indefinitely, we should shelter,  protect and aid the kids who have already arrived.
Obama plot?  Puh-leeze.

 kurtster wrote: 
You can't read. That's the only explanation.

 steeler wrote: 
Yeah he seems to think Obama should have had a fully wargamed plan and speech in place, ready for this totally predictable event. 

 kurtster wrote: 
SRSLY?!
This is probably your lamest attempt at trolling to date...

 kurtster wrote: 
Politically correct world?  I'm trying to get you into the world of logic and reason.  

 kurtster wrote: 

And,— stating it again  — you are the one who brought Obama up in your very first post at a time when the facts were not even close to being known. You make it sound in this and your prior post in response to me that Obama should have been announcing some  kind of action immediately after the plane went down.
  

   

 RichardPrins wrote: 
You're nucking futz.  To even go there is to assume that the plane was identified as a commercial airliner, the passenger manifest known, and deliberately shot down as opposed to an accident resulting from misidentification.

 Really, Richard.   You apparently will do anything to exploit a real crisis or tragedy for your own ends.

 ScottN wrote: 
I'm far from asking for any kind of military confrontation.

This is not our fight.  Its a European problem.  That does not mean I am trying to minimize the importance of the act of shooting down a civilian aircraft.  On the other hand the plane was flying through a war zone, so shit does happen and in war, no one is innocent.  To think otherwise is to misunderstand what war really is.

But geez Louise, Obama can do more than offer an insincere claim of concern over the matter.

His remark came off as a contractual obligation, rather than having any real meaning. 

But here we are in the weeds talking about Obama rather than the event itself. 

 RichardPrins wrote: 
Lets see....Russians hate gay people, AIDS is a gay disease... I think we got ourselves a conspiracy, folks!

About 100 of the 298 people killed in the Malaysia Airlines crash were heading to Melbourne for a major AIDS conference, conference attendees have been told.

Delegates at a pre-conference in Sydney were told on Friday morning that about 100 medical researchers, health workers and activists were on the plane that went down near the Russia-Ukraine border, including former International AIDS Society president Joep Lange. (...)

Which is not to suggest that their lives were any more valuable than the others, but it adds another dimension to the overall tragedy...

 kurtster wrote: 
I love irony on a Friday afternoon.
Yes, let's show those damn kids how really tough we are!

 steeler wrote: 
Yes, a big slap at Obama, and an indictment regarding his handling of foreign affairs to date.

You seem to be blinded by your particular ideology on this matter.  Obama is allowing an invasion on our southern border.  He does not deserve respect anymore.  His office does, but he has forsaken any obligation towards any personal respect, imo.

I don't live in your politically correct world, nor wish to.  

The emperor has no clothes, get over it.

 

 kurtster wrote: 
Your post yesterday was at 12:07 p.m. This is what you said about Obama's initial statement (and all you said about Obama, period, in that post): 

Obama has stated that finding out if any Americans on board was his first priority, while stating that this "may be a tragedy".
Funny (not) how Obama is unsure that shooting down a commercial airliner is a tragedy
.
By any objective assessment, this is a gratuitous slap at Obama.  The suggestion that he would find the shooting down of a commercial airliner resulting in 298 deaths not to be a tragedy is absurd.  

  

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 
Just one minute please.

I never once said this was a deliberate attack on a commercial airliner.  Please backscroll and show where I said this was deliberate.  Plus, I have yet to see any mention that the Ukrainian government or anyone else for that matter, thinks that a commercial airliner was deliberately targeted.  

I agree with you that this was an unfortunate accident and most likely the result of piss poor planning and incompetence.  Maybe the missile crew was drunk, who knows ?  I don't.  To deliberately attack a commercial airliner is an act of terror and not good for those seeking sympathy for their cause.  This event is a lot of things rolled into one, but I have yet to conclude that it was anything more than the assholes manning the missiles thought that they had a military flight in their sights and were not skilled enough to verify their target before firing.

I stand behind everything that I have so far posted on this event. 

Edit:  My "joke" as you term it was anything but.  It was an indictment against Obama.  Once again, Obama chose to vote "present" on a matter that matters, rather than take a stand and commit himself to anything.

 kurtster wrote: 
Of course you do.
 
All of them seem to be the result of on-the-ground commanders being incompetent or otherwise unable to think rationally about what it is they're doing.
 
A brief glance at some of these shows little or no indication of intent by any government and over-reaching by pilots or local command.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
Driving home yesterday and listening to NPR, their reporter on the scene was being asked his opinion by the in-studio news host and the reporter (Noah Sneider?) seemed to be saying that there's no way this plane was singled out, and that there's no way any party on the ground would target a commercial airliner deliberately. The most likely scenario, he seemed to be saying, was simple incompetence. It takes more than one person to operate that missile system: one or more to locate incoming aircraft, a commander to give the order, and the missile itself has onboard systems that report back status such as signals received from the target aircraft. Apparently several systems that might have prevented this were available but obviously they failed or were ignored/misunderstood.

I was driving and making stops, in/out of the car so I apologize for the spotty summary, but like Kurt, I feel able to flesh out my own theories. Unlike Kurt (and the leadership of Ukraine), I am not able to immediately declare this to be a deliberate machination of Russia or the separatists. I do think the airline (and all the others) who didn't think changing their routes was necessary deserves a solid drubbing in the media. When we get on an airplane, we have no control of its route and we implicitly trust that we will not fly over active war zones, don't we?
 
And Kurt: May/Might, that's not what anyone cares about. Your tone-deaf Obama "joke" before the wreckage was even cool is what set people off. But why should anyone expect you to understand that when you learned everything you need to know about class and good taste from Rush? 

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
Yep, that was mentioned in the coverage I watched.

So was this ... 

I think this parallels more with yesterday than the event you linked to.  Make no mistake, all are indeed terrible events.

Obama's reaction will be measured against Reagan's reaction.

 steeler wrote: 
Sounds to me like someone stuffed up big time. Awful. 

 

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
I have been thinking about that from soon after I heard about the Malaysian airliner being shot down. Interesting to see which parallels are being drawn — and which are not being drawn.