...we humans are all the same...

 sirdroseph wrote:
That's where all this becomes a matter for public debate; unless someone is going to write a law it's all just talk.

Which is fine, talk all you like. But at the current moment we aren't just talking, this is about policy and people with guns enforcing it.

 I actually do not recall asking for government intervention on anything. And the history of your partners genitals is indeed not a matter for government intervention, but it is a matter for you as her husband, pretty sure I made that clear. I was kind of asking for nothing but an intellectual explanation on how one can feel gender as an identity when I cannot. 

 sirdroseph wrote:
Insurance coverage of gender reassignment surgery is separable from government intervention in people's lives. Heart disease is terribly expensive to treat, but that doesn't justify government prohibiting eating bacon or smoking.

The history of my partners genitals is also not a matter for government intervention.

It is in 2 incidents if the surgery was cost prohibitive and this elected plastic surgery were driving my taxes and health premiums up and of course the moral obligation of informing future sexual partners of your birth gender. If your wife were born a man, maybe it matters to you and maybe it does not, but you should have full knowledge to make that choice. 

 Lazy8 wrote:It is in 2 incidents if the surgery was cost prohibitive and this elected plastic surgery were driving my taxes and health premiums up and of course the moral obligation of informing future sexual partners of your birth gender. If your wife were born a man, maybe it matters to you and maybe it does not, but you should have full knowledge to make that choice.

So true, But since others are concerned about it, you cant get the surgery covered (and most surgeons won't do it) without proof of years living with gender dysphoria and documented MH access.

 

 sirdroseph wrote:
I guess, but it really shouldn't drive the debate. The state of your reproductive organs is no one else's business.

 sirdroseph wrote:
I guess, but it really shouldn't drive the debate. The state of your reproductive organs is no one else's business.

 That's good to know. 

 sirdroseph wrote:
Not as much as you might think. Not every transgendered person opts for surgery and hormone therapy isn't that costly.

Ultimately this is where I am going to come down as well, doesn't mean that much to me personally other than intellectually not understanding. Provided the costly medical expenses involved though it is probably costing us all a good chunk of change in the form of health insurance premiums and taxes. 

Clearly (to me), there's an intensity of feeling that goes beyond anything I can relate to. So for the people who go through with it, I give them a pass, even while I suspect it won't help with the big picture of where that intense feeling comes from. 
 

There were a couple of TG people here some years ago. This is what I learned.

It's not about sexuality. It's about identity.

Imagine waking up every morning with male parts, but knowing - not thinking, knowing - that you're actually a girl. A real girl trapped in a boy's body. The whole world sees you like a boy, and treats you like a boy. And inside, you know you're a girl. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. You are a girl inside.

I can't imagine having to live with that.

I have a legitimate question that I struggle with regarding gender.  I have always fully supported the gay and lesbian community; just as racism is irrational so is homophobia.  I have intrinsically understood that since I was the littlest shorty regardless of growing up in a racist and homophobic society.  For me it is about individual freedom of expression and being allowed to simply be what you are, this is being in line with nature.  In other words and I think most here would agree with me that it is cruel and unusual behavior to attempt to externally change ones sexuality, this goes against the laws of nature.  Everyone should be completely uninhibited to express their sexuality whatever that may be as long as the parties are consensual adults.  Perfectly logical, right?  However I struggle mightily when it comes to gender and those that wish to change their gender because of the way they feel.  To me it is hypocritical to on the one hand fight for the right to be what you are and also fight for the right to be what you are not.  Gender, just like sexuality is not a choice, it is a biological fact.  If you are born a man and want to be a woman, you have to surgically alter yourself to achieve this which goes against nature (not religion, I am an agnostic and do not do religion).  You just simply are a woman or a man by virtue of born anatomy, you may like the social construct of what it is to being the different gender, meaning you are born a man but are sexually attracted to men and want to look like a woman and that is fine and I fully support your lifestyle.  Just know you are a gay man who likes women's fashion and all of the other social attributes normally applied to women.  I just do not support going under the knife and changing your anatomy whilst being angry and defensive if someone calls you a man because that is the visual perception they are seeing not to mention the moral implications that modern medical technology has brought where the surgeries have gotten so complete you cannot tell the difference.  Should you tell every future partner of your true birth gender? Of course you should, but I would gather most do not for obvious reasons of fear of losing their partner therefore there is a lot of deceit going on out there. 

Now, I think these are legitimate concerns and not just the rantings of a neanderthal homophobic.  If this is what you see in these comments, then you did not read them very well or are not very good at reading comprehension.  I truly want to know what the mindset is for those that choose to go under the knife and that is the bottom line here.  As I said earlier, I fully support cross dressers and free expression of all sexualities and think a lot of them look really hot, just as long as the end of the day they still got the goods they were born with.   Someone please help me out here without all that silly anger and defensiveness, save that stuff for the ignorant masses.

Now, I think these are legitimate concerns and not just the rantings of a neanderthal homophobic.  If this is what you see in these comments, then you did not read them very well or are not very good at reading comprehension.  I truly want to know what the mindset is for those that choose to go under the knife and that is the bottom line here.  As I said earlier, I fully support cross dressers and free expression of all sexualities and think a lot of them look really hot, just as long as the end of the day they still got the goods they were born with.   Someone please help me out here without all that silly anger and defensiveness, save that stuff for the ignorant masses.

I am not following the argument that surgically altering one's gender is suspect because it goes against nature. (...)

Indeed, if they feel the need to go through that process then more farking power to them. It certainly can't be easy physically or mentally to do so...Much like coming out to the world...Choice my ass...No one would "choose" to be abused by so many.

Clearly (to me), there's an intensity of feeling that goes beyond anything I can relate to. So for the people who go through with it, I give them a pass, even while I suspect it won't help with the big picture of where that intense feeling comes from. 
 

 I struggle mightily when it comes to gender and those that wish to change their gender because of the way they feel.