Very nice, R!
Manbird wrote: 

Weird story but true: I had just finished uploading a couple LGBTQIA shirts I designed
and went to lay down, checked my iPad and there was a PM on FB from my best
gay friend whom I had lost touch with over the last 20 or more years. Such strange coincideñcio!
Anyway, here are the results of my designs. I have to credit Mag for the saying on the 2nd shirt.
The designs are mine but nothing is really original - I'm sure heart has been done x 1000. 

 meower wrote: 




Thanks! I welcome your input as probably the one with the most knowledge on the subject.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
I was thinking that before. some people don't like when we start a new thread, but I do think in this case it's warranted.... Gonna start a thread

 sirdroseph wrote:  but, if you're thinking for one second that the experience of gender is something as "all the same" as the fact that we all bleed red, therein lies the issue. Empathy is the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes and think outside of your own experience.

 ptooey wrote: 





Dependent upon the context of the question; we are all the same and we are all different. It is the sameness that we share that helps us understand our differences as individuals.




Edit: I apologize for putting this in this thread when in reality this specific discussion has very little to do with sexuality only in the context of using sexuality as a baseline difference than gender. I just could not find a specific gender topic.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
I might have found the root of the comprehension issue.

 Lazy8 wrote: 




It is?? I guess I just don't get where you are coming from. I don't want anything from our government regarding this issue, I agree that government should have nothing to do with this. I am just struggling to understand the gender aspect because I instantly and intrinsically understand all other aspects of sexuality because I have sexuality myself and we humans are all the same, but I do not have a gender, I am a gender and cannot comprehend the difference and guess I never will in regards to all of those that apparently do have the ability to feel gender.

 sirdroseph wrote:
That's where all this becomes a matter for public debate; unless someone is going to write a law it's all just talk.

Which is fine, talk all you like. But at the current moment we aren't just talking, this is about policy and people with guns enforcing it.

 Lazy8 wrote: 





I actually do not recall asking for government intervention on anything. And the history of your partners genitals is indeed not a matter for government intervention, but it is a matter for you as her husband, pretty sure I made that clear. I was kind of asking for nothing but an intellectual explanation on how one can feel gender as an identity when I cannot.

 sirdroseph wrote:
Insurance coverage of gender reassignment surgery is separable from government intervention in people's lives. Heart disease is terribly expensive to treat, but that doesn't justify government prohibiting eating bacon or smoking.

The history of my partners genitals is also not a matter for government intervention.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
So-called "cosmetic" surgeries of any sort are not often covered by general health insurance or taxpayer coffers, though there is an increase in coverage with some insurance companies, given the criteria that Meower pointed out.

 meower wrote: 




Actually I didn't know that. Thank you that does seem reasonable.

 Lazy8 wrote: 




It is in 2 incidents if the surgery was cost prohibitive and this elected plastic surgery were driving my taxes and health premiums up and of course the moral obligation of informing future sexual partners of your birth gender. If your wife were born a man, maybe it matters to you and maybe it does not, but you should have full knowledge to make that choice.

 Lazy8 wrote:

 
So true, But since others are concerned about it, you cant get the surgery covered (and most surgeons won't do it) without proof of years living with gender dysphoria and documented MH access.

 

 sirdroseph wrote:
I guess, but it really shouldn't drive the debate. The state of your reproductive organs is no one else's business.

 Lazy8 wrote: 





That's good to know.

 sirdroseph wrote:
Not as much as you might think. Not every transgendered person opts for surgery and hormone therapy isn't that costly.

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 




Ultimately this is where I am going to come down as well, doesn't mean that much to me personally other than intellectually not understanding. Provided the costly medical expenses involved though it is probably costing us all a good chunk of change in the form of health insurance premiums and taxes.

 BlueHeronDruid wrote: 
I cannot imagine that because I don't even know what it is like to feel like a male.
See this is what I don't understand.  I cannot comprehend identity as a feeling at all anymore than seeing music (and I have experienced synesthesia under the influence of lsd)  or tasting color.  I do not feel like a male or a female and I do not understand the concept at all.  I have feeling and desires for women because I happen to have been born heterosexual, but do not understand the concept of an internal feeling in regards to gender at all, it is just biology.  I mean if I feel like I am black do I have the right to surgically alter myself to look just like an African American and demand to be treated like one in all aspects of society including affirmative action, anti discrimination laws and so forth even though I was not born with the experience of being an African American having my ancestors oppressed and enslaved and so forth just like Rachel Dolenz?  Is it ok for Caitlyn Jenner to be the woman of the year and participate in women's equality events as a woman even though she has been a man most of her life not subject to discrimination that women face? This does not seem fair to me.   I guess this aspect is something I will never understand.  Gender is nothing but biology and social construct based upon that biology, we dress differently for the most part and have different roles based upon our biology and physical appearance something we already have the freedom to completely reject if we want, men are free to dress as women and vice versa. Women and other minorities have fought for and are fighting for equal and interchangeable roles in all aspects of society and more power to them.  Roles are not biology.  Oh well, I guess this is the impasse here.  Thanks for your comments!