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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Trump
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 991, 992, 993 ... 1129, 1130, 1131 Next |
Steely_D
Location: Biscayne Bay Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 17, 2016 - 6:01am |
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Kaw wrote:It's a strange situation. Trump and his voters got degraded to stupid uneducated bigoted idiots by the well educated, liberal minded and polite people because Trump is Trump. That makes no sense to me. First, the wording is awkward. Second, Trump voters are all over the spectrum, and include smart people. If you think about what's going on, there are people who believe that the game is rigged. How can you not think that when you see Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama - Clinton? So, their point is to bring in someone who's not playing the game. Unfortunately, that's Trump, who is playing his own game: probably not politics, but probably finance and self-promotion. It looks like he's accidentally been volunteered further up the ladder than he anticipated, but he doesn't know how to get out of it. (Maybe that's the point of his incendiary rhetoric? To not accidentally become responsible for running the nation?) But his supporters include those who think that politicians aren't going to give them a fair shake. That includes all walks of life, including folks who are swayed by the speeches promising that they'll get their jobs back, their culture back, their nation back. Those people aren't necessarily stupid or uneducated (although the group certainly includes those who are) but they are looking for something that will bring them back to the Good Old Days™.
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oldviolin
Location: esse quam videri Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 17, 2016 - 5:50am |
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SeriousLee wrote: Couldn't agree more. I stopped clinging 30 years ago, but that's another story.
I used to cling on occasion myself but I sorta got tired of all the static. Now I just grit my teeth and speak with a lisper...
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Kaw
Location: Just above sea level Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 17, 2016 - 1:40am |
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It's a strange situation. Trump and his voters got degraded to stupid uneducated bigoted idiots by the well educated, liberal minded and polite people because Trump is Trump. And now they will vote for someone that is absolutely not a good choice, but she is not Trump. And that's all that counts on this moment. From an European perspective I would suggest one extra year for Obama and one year for the republicans and democrats to get some decent people on the quest for president. Even Nixon looks good compared to Trump and Hillary.
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SeriousLee
Location: Dans l'milieu d'deux milles livres
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 11:08am |
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Steely_D wrote: Only scary if you cling to some idea of who you should be. The clinging is the thing that makes things difficult.
Couldn't agree more. I stopped clinging 30 years ago, but that's another story.
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Steely_D
Location: Biscayne Bay Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 10:59am |
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SeriousLee wrote:That was my first thought. It can be scary to leave your eyes open when you turn your gaze to the mirror. That, i know. Only scary if you cling to some idea of who you should be. The clinging is the thing that makes things difficult.
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sirdroseph
Location: Not here, I tell you wat Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 7:48am |
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SeriousLee wrote:That was my first thought. It can be scary to leave your eyes open when you turn your gaze to the mirror. That, i know. That is a good thing, that means you are really looking.
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SeriousLee
Location: Dans l'milieu d'deux milles livres
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 7:44am |
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sirdroseph wrote: Indeed to that, but my point was that there are lot of people with open eyes but they looking at everyone but themselves and ultimately the answer has to come from within..
That was my first thought. It can be scary to leave your eyes open when you turn your gaze to the mirror. That, i know.
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sirdroseph
Location: Not here, I tell you wat Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 6:42am |
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SeriousLee wrote: Indeed. Working together is the only way we can achieve true progression. And the man looking in the mirror needs to open his eyes for that to happen.
Indeed to that, but my point was that there are lot of people with open eyes but they looking at everyone but themselves and ultimately the answer has to come from within..
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Red_Dragon
Location: Dumbf*ckistan
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 6:25am |
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sirdroseph
Location: Not here, I tell you wat Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 6:02am |
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bokey wrote: By electing the lying,supportive wife of a misogynistic sexual predator?
Good Lord no bokey, you should know be better than that!
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SeriousLee
Location: Dans l'milieu d'deux milles livres
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 5:53am |
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sirdroseph wrote:Please read these articles, they are well written, important and both written by people who do not support Trump and have no illusions as to who he is (and neither do many people that do support Trump): Oh and to avoid the inevitable condescending beration towards me I would like to make it perfectly clear that I would not vote for Trump with your vote. Just take Micheal Jackson's advice and look at the proverbial "man in the mirror". The only true social progression can take place from within our own hearts. Indeed. Working together is the only way we can achieve true progression. And the man looking in the mirror needs to open his eyes for that to happen.
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bokey
Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 5:48am |
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sirdroseph wrote:Please read these articles, they are well written, important and both written by people who do not support Trump and have no illusions as to who he is (and neither do many people that do support Trump): Oh and to avoid the inevitable condescending beration towards me I would like to make it perfectly clear that I would not vote for Trump with your vote. Just take Micheal Jackson's advice and look at the proverbial "man in the mirror". The only true social progression can take place from within our own hearts. By electing the lying,supportive wife of a misogynistic sexual predator?
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sirdroseph
Location: Not here, I tell you wat Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2016 - 4:03am |
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Please read these articles, they are well written, important and both written by people who do not support Trump and have no illusions as to who he is (and neither do many people that do support Trump): Oh and to avoid the inevitable condescending beration towards me I would like to make it perfectly clear that I would not vote for Trump with your vote. Just take Micheal Jackson's advice and look at the proverbial "man in the mirror". The only true social progression can take place from within our own hearts.
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kcar
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Posted:
Oct 15, 2016 - 3:04pm |
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marko86 wrote:Wow, talk about your straw man arguments! It would seem to me that trump is both Absolutely corrupt and absolutely misogynistic , considering all the evidence,(but only Sith's deal in absolutes) I think this piece nicely sums up the double standard. Bill Clinton cheats on his wife. Impeach him. Trump proudly brags about sexual assault (and has cheated on his wives). Elect him. Hillary oversaw the department of state while 4 people died in an embassy attack. Put her in jail. 2 Republicans were in office while over 200 people died in embassy attacks. No problem. Immigrants don't pay taxes. Round them up and kick them out. Trump doesn't pay taxes. He's a business genius. Hillary's foundation only spent 87% of their donations helping people. She's a crook. Trumps foundation paid off his debts, bought sculptures of him, and made political donations to avoid investigations while using less than 5% of funds for charity (and he got shut down by NY State). So savvy... Put him in the white house. Trump made 4 billion dollars in 40 years, when an index fund started at the same time with the same "small loans" he received would be worth $12 billion today... without a trail of bankruptcies, thousands of lawsuits and burned small business owners. He's a real business whiz. Hillary took a loss of $700k. She's a criminal. Trump is the first candidate in the modern era not to release his tax returns, and took a billion dollar loss in 1 year. Genius. Hillary takes responsibility for private email servers and apologizes. Not credible. Trump denies saying things (on the record) he actually said (on the record), he's just telling it like it is. Your arguments are thin. Your ignorance of reality is shocking. Your double-standards are offensive, and your willingness to blindly support him and recycle the rhetoric is absurd. Your opinion is not fact. Your memes are not news articles. And your hypocrisy is not a platform. Alex Schiller
At this point, Trump and Clinton supporters are absolutely convinced that their candidate is superior, committed to their needs and better for the country as a whole. I've stated repeatedly (and occasionally quite obnoxiously) that I believe Hillary has more experience, character and vision than Trump but I probably haven't budged kurtster's support for Trump one inch. Trump and Clinton's pasts may provide an indication of their fitness to lead but those pasts don't matter that much to the lives of voters today and over the next four years. I know it's ridiculous to ignore past mis/deeds and focus on the candidates' platforms but consider these two points: 1. We're not electing a dictator. A President brings in a whole new cabinet and appointed officials. S/he faces factions within his/her own party and a determined opposition, both of which will shape policy directions. A President's extreme positions tend to get moderated, watered down, compromised or just killed. Those are the checks and balances working in our government. Neither candidate is going to be able to keep all of their campaign promises. Neither candidate's administration is going to play out as advertised on the campaign trail. I don't have much faith that forces working on a President Trump would make him an effective or popular leader but they would help him avoid the biggest possible blunders and excesses. I think a reasonable opponent of Clinton would say the same thing about a Clinton administration. 2. The agendas of either administration are going to affect you and me far, far more than Trump's treatment of people who don't look like him or Clinton's penchant for privacy/secrecy. Rather than getting all amped up about the personality of the candidate you oppose, why not look at the proposed policies of that candidate and those of your preferred candidate to assess their impact on the country and your life? Do the policies of the candidates make sense? Are they practical? How much will they cost? Which policies or programs will suffer or lose priority if a candidate has sufficient power to get things done? Who will benefit if a proposed policy goes into effect? Again, I'm biased (most of us are this point. Maybe Ken Bone's red sweater is crippling his ability to form an opinion). Most of the analyses that I've read of Trump's policies conclude that they will not be effective or politically viable. The analyses also conclude that some of Trump's policies will have an effect diametrically opposed to what he promises (the tax reform plan in particular comes to mind). Some analyses of Clinton's agenda criticize the unintended effects of her policies (for instance, her plan to reign in drug costs and make college education affordable). Reading policy analyses will not give you clear-cut answers that prove your candidate is The Savior. But you will get a better sense of what's coming down the pike that will affect your life. And that's a lot more important than all the scrutiny of the candidates' pasts. Frankly, this kind of attention to policy detail is boring compared to reading about the monster you must stop on election day. But if you're unhappy with the state and direction of the country, you'd better pay attention to what's being promised and what will actually get done.
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marko86
Location: North TX Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 15, 2016 - 6:43am |
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kurtster wrote:Since it seems to be coming down to character more than anything else ...
Which is worse when it comes to governing ... being absolutely corrupt or possibly misogynistic ?
Wow, talk about your straw man arguments! It would seem to me that trump is both Absolutely corrupt and absolutely misogynistic , considering all the evidence,(but only Sith's deal in absolutes) I think this piece nicely sums up the double standard. Bill Clinton cheats on his wife. Impeach him. Trump proudly brags about sexual assault (and has cheated on his wives). Elect him. Hillary oversaw the department of state while 4 people died in an embassy attack. Put her in jail. 2 Republicans were in office while over 200 people died in embassy attacks. No problem. Immigrants don't pay taxes. Round them up and kick them out. Trump doesn't pay taxes. He's a business genius. Hillary's foundation only spent 87% of their donations helping people. She's a crook. Trumps foundation paid off his debts, bought sculptures of him, and made political donations to avoid investigations while using less than 5% of funds for charity (and he got shut down by NY State). So savvy... Put him in the white house. Trump made 4 billion dollars in 40 years, when an index fund started at the same time with the same "small loans" he received would be worth $12 billion today... without a trail of bankruptcies, thousands of lawsuits and burned small business owners. He's a real business whiz. Hillary took a loss of $700k. She's a criminal. Trump is the first candidate in the modern era not to release his tax returns, and took a billion dollar loss in 1 year. Genius. Hillary takes responsibility for private email servers and apologizes. Not credible. Trump denies saying things (on the record) he actually said (on the record), he's just telling it like it is. Your arguments are thin. Your ignorance of reality is shocking. Your double-standards are offensive, and your willingness to blindly support him and recycle the rhetoric is absurd. Your opinion is not fact. Your memes are not news articles. And your hypocrisy is not a platform. Alex Schiller
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 15, 2016 - 6:13am |
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Since it seems to be coming down to character more than anything else ...
Which is worse when it comes to governing ... being absolutely corrupt or possibly misogynistic ?
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sirdroseph
Location: Not here, I tell you wat Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 15, 2016 - 4:52am |
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What is ironic about this whole thing is it seems Bill Clinton and Trump have a lot in common regarding their personal lives, Main difference is Clinton is a hypocrite with a double life because in his political, public persona he is actually somewhat of a feminist, Trump is just a straight up Misogynist.
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 15, 2016 - 4:28am |
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ScottFromWyoming wrote: Yes to all of this but my point, circuitously made by me if at all, is that the headline "Millions of people disagree with your political views. That doesn't make them moral monsters" is correct, but that that doesn't mean there are no moral monsters. If the moral monster du jour disagrees with you, and the candidates that monster supports don't take quick and decisive action to distance themselves from that monster and that monster's position, then it is not much of a leap to the conflation addressed by the headline that those candidates supporters are or agree with or also support moral monsters.
I hurt my brain.
With the retreat into separate but equal, we are creating / recreating subdivisions and factions that all have their particular single focus or purpose. That being said, in this world of binary choices, they eventually have to pick one of those offered to support / jump on their bandwagon. Then work it backwards and put into play the guilt by association factor to deconstruct of the binary choices. But how far do we take it ? You can't acknowledge everybody just as you cannot disavow everyone. Extreme example ... Cannibals. While illegal, they exist. Are they worth the time of day to even acknowledge their existence ? But they have a problem with their diet. Too boring, the same old boring white meat, day after day. They are driven to find some variety. How better to seek that end ? Support open borders of course. So they get together and have a meeting to choose who to support in the coming election. The choice is clear. So they decide to pick the candidate who dreams of open borders, cuz the other one wants to seal off the border and limit their food choices. Now I ask, speaking of monsters, who wants the support of cannibals ? Is it really necessary to disavow the cannibals, have we reached that point ? With the gotcha mentality, yes. So if you don't go out of your way to immediately disavow the cannibals, you are suddenly pro cannibal and unelectable. I could do this with polygamists and make it really politically incorrect by dividing polygamists into two groups, Muslim and Mormon. One is politically cool while the other is not.If Roman Polanski supported Hillary, no big deal. But if he supported Trump, well shit howdy, the howling would never end. Take two aspirin ...
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rhahl
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Posted:
Oct 14, 2016 - 2:11pm |
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I heard that Donald Trump got at least one new celebrity endorsement today, from Bill Cosby.
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ScottFromWyoming
Location: Powell Gender:
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Posted:
Oct 14, 2016 - 9:12am |
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Beaker wrote: Yes, exactly. The extremists on each side, left or right, are totally undesirable by their respective parties & candidates. However, when it comes to perceptions of which side has more extremists offering support, don't forget that the media (even up here in Canuckistan) is dominated by the liberal view - and anything that doesn't support their worldview is often squelched while the extremist idjits on the other side are amplified via the media microphone.
For me, it doesn't matter the quantity of extremist types of whichever view - I discount them all - and blame our educational systems and/or the inability of the extremist type to think for themselves beyond their one-issue that is their raison d'etre.
Was the Obama voter who believed she was getting a free Obamaphone an extremist? I can't recall. But she certainly was some kind of stupid to believe that. The Trump supporter who thinks Trump can deliver on making Mexico pay for a border wall - yeah, he/she are a special kind of stupid too. And a Hillary supporter who believes, well, pretty much anything that Clinton promises ... ? Yup - obviously not paying attention to her record of failures, so stupid too.
Extremists of either side are to be discounted, IMO. Much like when you are soliciting bids on a job - good practice is often to throw out both the highest and lowest bids - and pick from the middle. However it concerns me that in our political systems, access to the top jobs is often achieved by candidates for office outright lying to voters - saying what need be said to secure their vote. Because politicians are cynical creatures, and many really don't have a lot of respect for the electorate - they're just an obstacle to be overcome or pacified as the candidates seek office, power, and hopefully, wealth. In my perfect world, all voters would be fully educated the critical issues of the day - and on the merits or lack there of, of each candidate. Stupid salacious diversions and the inherent media bias would also be relegated to the dustbin of history.
Yes to all of this but my point, circuitously made by me if at all, is that the headline " Millions of people disagree with your political views. That doesn't make them moral monsters" is correct, but that that doesn't mean there are no moral monsters. If the moral monster du jour disagrees with you, and the candidates that monster supports don't take quick and decisive action to distance themselves from that monster and that monster's position, then it is not much of a leap to the conflation addressed by the headline that those candidates supporters are or agree with or also support moral monsters.
I hurt my brain.
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