[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Joe Biden - Beaker - Mar 3, 2024 - 3:35pm
 
Israel - R_P - Mar 3, 2024 - 10:58am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Mar 3, 2024 - 10:49am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Mar 3, 2024 - 10:46am
 
Wordle - daily game - Coaxial - Mar 3, 2024 - 10:18am
 
Name My Band - GeneP59 - Mar 3, 2024 - 9:58am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - GeneP59 - Mar 3, 2024 - 9:49am
 
NYTimes Connections - geoff_morphini - Mar 3, 2024 - 9:36am
 
Spambags on RP - islander - Mar 3, 2024 - 9:07am
 
Memorials - Remembering Our Loved Ones - oldviolin - Mar 3, 2024 - 8:36am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Mar 3, 2024 - 8:12am
 
March 2024 Photo Theme - Many - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2024 - 6:44am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Mar 2, 2024 - 9:44pm
 
Did the punishment fit the Crime? - Red_Dragon - Mar 2, 2024 - 2:03pm
 
Song of the Day - oldviolin - Mar 2, 2024 - 1:18pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - skyguy - Mar 2, 2024 - 12:40pm
 
WikiLeaks - R_P - Mar 2, 2024 - 11:53am
 
Ukraine - Beaker - Mar 2, 2024 - 10:54am
 
Thanks William! - oldviolin - Mar 2, 2024 - 9:03am
 
Things You Thought Today - Coaxial - Mar 1, 2024 - 6:29pm
 
What the hell OV? - oldviolin - Mar 1, 2024 - 5:50pm
 
Great guitar faces - Manbird - Mar 1, 2024 - 5:23pm
 
Little known information...maybe even facts - Manbird - Mar 1, 2024 - 5:20pm
 
HALF A WORLD - buddy - Mar 1, 2024 - 3:37pm
 
February 2024 Photo Theme - Water - Antigone - Mar 1, 2024 - 3:30pm
 
USA! USA! USA! - R_P - Mar 1, 2024 - 2:04pm
 
TuneIn Issue - gabugman1 - Mar 1, 2024 - 12:58pm
 
ONE WORD - oldviolin - Mar 1, 2024 - 11:21am
 
Irony 101 - oldviolin - Mar 1, 2024 - 11:20am
 
What Makes You Sad? - oldviolin - Mar 1, 2024 - 10:44am
 
Outstanding Covers - oldviolin - Mar 1, 2024 - 10:38am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - ColdMiser - Mar 1, 2024 - 7:23am
 
Play the Blues - oldviolin - Feb 29, 2024 - 12:05pm
 
What makes you smile? - Steely_D - Feb 29, 2024 - 10:02am
 
Russia - R_P - Feb 29, 2024 - 9:49am
 
trouble with cache block filling on Android 9 - nhm5 - Feb 29, 2024 - 9:43am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - GeneP59 - Feb 29, 2024 - 7:57am
 
The Obituary Page - lily34 - Feb 29, 2024 - 5:39am
 
New Music - pete_shakey - Feb 29, 2024 - 5:04am
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Feb 28, 2024 - 9:51pm
 
April 8th Partial Solar Eclipse - geoff_morphini - Feb 28, 2024 - 1:15pm
 
Announcements being clipped - larvenz - Feb 28, 2024 - 6:40am
 
China - R_P - Feb 27, 2024 - 10:34pm
 
Ways to Listen to RP on WiiM Plus - rexswain - Feb 27, 2024 - 3:22pm
 
Live Music - oldviolin - Feb 27, 2024 - 2:46pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - ColdMiser - Feb 27, 2024 - 8:25am
 
NASA & other news from space - Beaker - Feb 27, 2024 - 6:10am
 
In My Room - oldviolin - Feb 27, 2024 - 6:02am
 
Road Trip! - Proclivities - Feb 27, 2024 - 4:54am
 
ANSWERS - miamizsun - Feb 27, 2024 - 4:25am
 
Trump - islander - Feb 26, 2024 - 3:52pm
 
Derplahoma! - Red_Dragon - Feb 26, 2024 - 3:10pm
 
RightWingNutZ - kcar - Feb 26, 2024 - 2:22pm
 
Total solar eclipse playlist - Isabeau - Feb 26, 2024 - 12:13pm
 
Frequent drop outs (The Netherlands) - Babylon - Feb 26, 2024 - 11:39am
 
Audio Sampling Rates - William - Feb 26, 2024 - 9:12am
 
Artificial Intelligence - islander - Feb 26, 2024 - 7:21am
 
OUR CATS!! - DaveInSaoMiguel - Feb 26, 2024 - 7:16am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - pete_shakey - Feb 25, 2024 - 10:31pm
 
Guns - islander - Feb 25, 2024 - 6:34am
 
Coffee - kurtster - Feb 24, 2024 - 9:27pm
 
It's all good fun until... - oldviolin - Feb 24, 2024 - 2:10pm
 
The Secret Combination - oldviolin - Feb 24, 2024 - 1:50pm
 
Lyrics that are stuck in your head today... - oldviolin - Feb 24, 2024 - 1:30pm
 
Caching to Apple watch quit working - jmenzies - Feb 24, 2024 - 7:01am
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - KurtfromLaQuinta - Feb 23, 2024 - 9:16pm
 
If not RP, what are you listening to right now? - westslope - Feb 23, 2024 - 3:43pm
 
Favorite Quotes - oldviolin - Feb 23, 2024 - 1:42pm
 
Florida - thisbody - Feb 23, 2024 - 10:30am
 
Is there a help forum? - amyarnelle - Feb 22, 2024 - 3:22pm
 
Celebrity Face Recognition - oldviolin - Feb 22, 2024 - 1:06pm
 
Today, I learned... - Steely_D - Feb 21, 2024 - 9:52pm
 
Best guitarists - skyguy - Feb 21, 2024 - 4:00pm
 
NEED A COMPUTER GEEK! - geoff_morphini - Feb 21, 2024 - 12:45pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - geoff_morphini - Feb 21, 2024 - 11:44am
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Solar / Wind / Geothermal / Efficiency Energy Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 40, 41, 42  Next
Post to this Topic
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 18, 2021 - 4:43am

ok, these guys just won an Earthshot prize for this electrolyzer, which got me curious.

Can someone check my math on this?

According to the data sheet, it needs 2400Wh to produce 500 normal litres of hydrogen 

Apparently it takes 11,200 litres  (11.2 m^3) of hydrogen to come up with 1kg of hydrogen at normal pressure, which this machine would produce in about a day's uninterrupted operation (500 x 24 = 12000 litres). How does this tally with the data sheet which states 4.8 kWh for 1m^3 of hydrogen? It seems to be out by a factor of roughly 10.

Whatever, hydrogen has a usable energy density of 33.6 kW per kg, so this machine is producing roughly 33.6 kW of energy in one day from 57.6 kW of electricity as an input, plus the water.

One electrolyzer costs €9000.
So, assuming the above is correct, the question is what other infrastructure would you need? And what would be the total cost of generating enough fuel to run a hydrogen-powered car at say 12000 km/year ignoring the cost of the car?

According to the manufacturer,  the BMW i3 consumes 15.3 kWh for 100 km, so, assuming a hydrogen-powered car were similarly efficient (probably not), you could produce enough hydrogen to power a car for 200 km, (based on 24 hour production). 

hmm.. so what are the pitfalls?
  • Cost of power: our local price for renewable electricity is 30c per kWh which translates into €14 a day to power the electrolyzer.
  • I guess you could source the power from small wind-turbines but this is variable - only on windy days, etc. or PV
  • Storing the hydrogen
  • Dangers of hydrogen
And what is the true energy balance on inputs (manufacture of the infrastructure etc. compared to the output? 
rhahl

rhahl Avatar



Posted: Apr 17, 2021 - 7:19am

Solar-to-Hydrogen Tech Sees "Remarkable" Efficiency Jump

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/solar-to-hydrogen-remarkable-efficiency-jump
 
Here comes hydrogen as a serious fuel. One trouble is it leaks right through most pipe materials.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 17, 2021 - 11:27am

Energy "independence"
The crisis highlighted a deeper warning for power systems throughout the country. Electric grids can be engineered to handle a wide range of severe conditions — as long as grid operators can reliably predict the dangers ahead. But as climate change accelerates, many electric grids will face novel and extreme weather events that go beyond the historical conditions those grids were designed for, putting the systems at risk of catastrophic failure.

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Feb 17, 2021 - 7:48am

500 Walmarts forced to close due to the weather?   

Now we know that storm is serious!  
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Feb 17, 2021 - 6:59am



 Proclivities wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Texas wind turbines freeze as Texas orders rolling black outs

Huh!?!!   

Should we Canadians order care packages of white lithium grease and send them to Texas? Or do Texans need lessons in risk management? 

I would really like somebody familiar with the technology of these wind turbines to explain to me how they managed to freeze. I do not recall wind turbines in cold oceans such as the North Atlantic freezing.

 
Apparently, wind turbines used in predictably-cold locations can have heating systems installed in them for their gearboxes and other components.  The present temperatures in many parts of Texas are well below normal ranges for those areas, such an idea may never have come up for them.

Somewhat interesting article:  Wind Energy in Cold Climates
 

Thanks Proclivities.   The Natural Resource Canada ministry website is informative.  I have learned a lot about wind turbines and Texas grid management over the past couple of days.  

I gather that wind turbines can be cold weather-proofed like just about everything else.

Some US pundits appear to have a negative view of Texas management.  According to Julian Lee at bloomberg.com, Texan politicians may be blaming green energy but apparently conventional sources were impacted even harder.   

Blame Texas Exceptionalism For This Crisis, Not Green Energy
 - Julian Lee, Bloomberg
It’s time the state prepared its power supply for more cold winters.


Two reflections:

1.  Given the numbers I am hearing/reading, Texas did a bad job of risk management.    People died.  

2.  When are supposedly educated, bright Americans going to take anthropogenic climate disruption seriously?  
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2021 - 10:41pm



 Proclivities wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Texas wind turbines freeze as Texas orders rolling black outs

Huh!?!!   

Should we Canadians order care packages of white lithium grease and send them to Texas? Or do Texans need lessons in risk management? 

I would really like somebody familiar with the technology of these wind turbines to explain to me how they managed to freeze. I do not recall wind turbines in cold oceans such as the North Atlantic freezing.

 
Apparently, wind turbines used in predictably-cold locations can have heating systems installed in them for their gearboxes and other components.  The present temperatures in many parts of Texas are well below normal ranges for those areas, such an idea may never have come up for them.

Somewhat interesting article:  Wind Energy in Cold Climates
 
I read Texas has a nuke shutdown, too. You would think those things could stay warm enough.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2021 - 9:01pm



 Manbird wrote:


 westslope wrote:
-Texas wind turbines BAND NAME freeze as Texas orders -rolling black outs BAND NAME



 


Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: ? ? ?
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2021 - 5:31pm



 westslope wrote:
-Texas wind turbines BAND NAME freeze as Texas orders -rolling black outs BAND NAME

Huh!?!!   

Should we Canadians order -care packages BAND NAME of -white lithium grease BAND NAME and -send them to Texas BAND NAME Or do -Texans need lessons BAND NAME in risk management? 

I would really like somebody familiar with the technology of these wind turbines to explain to me how they managed to freeze. -I do not recall BAND NAME wind turbines -in cold oceans BAND NAME such as the -North Atlantic freezing BAND NAME.

 


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2021 - 1:25pm



 Proclivities wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Texas wind turbines freeze as Texas orders rolling black outs

Huh!?!!   

Should we Canadians order care packages of white lithium grease and send them to Texas? Or do Texans need lessons in risk management? 

I would really like somebody familiar with the technology of these wind turbines to explain to me how they managed to freeze. I do not recall wind turbines in cold oceans such as the North Atlantic freezing.

 
Apparently, wind turbines used in predictably-cold locations can have heating systems installed in them for their gearboxes and other components.  The present temperatures in many parts of Texas are well below normal ranges for those areas, such an idea may never have come up for them.

Somewhat interesting article:  Wind Energy in Cold Climates
 

I imagine the ramifications of even a little more ice on one blade than another could be catastrophic.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2021 - 1:09pm



 westslope wrote:
Texas wind turbines freeze as Texas orders rolling black outs

Huh!?!!   

Should we Canadians order care packages of white lithium grease and send them to Texas? Or do Texans need lessons in risk management? 

I would really like somebody familiar with the technology of these wind turbines to explain to me how they managed to freeze. I do not recall wind turbines in cold oceans such as the North Atlantic freezing.

 
Apparently, wind turbines used in predictably-cold locations can have heating systems installed in them for their gearboxes and other components.  The present temperatures in many parts of Texas are well below normal ranges for those areas, such an idea may never have come up for them.

Somewhat interesting article:  Wind Energy in Cold Climates
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Feb 15, 2021 - 8:28am

Texas wind turbines freeze as Texas orders rolling black outs

Huh!?!!   

Should we Canadians order care packages of white lithium grease and send them to Texas? Or do Texans need lessons in risk management? 

I would really like somebody familiar with the technology of these wind turbines to explain to me how they managed to freeze. I do not recall wind turbines in cold oceans such as the North Atlantic freezing.

R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2020 - 7:41pm

China poised to power huge growth in global offshore wind energy
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 20, 2020 - 7:18am



 Red_Dragon wrote:


 islander wrote:

Interesting, but there just isn't much energy available in a system like that. Triboelectrics had a bit of a burst a few years ago, but energy yields are tiny.  I spend a lot of time managing people's expectations for solar as it is now, I can't wait to see what I get when they find this article. 

 

To whom should I send it? 

 
info@dev.nul

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: May 20, 2020 - 6:52am



 islander wrote:

Interesting, but there just isn't much energy available in a system like that. Triboelectrics had a bit of a burst a few years ago, but energy yields are tiny.  I spend a lot of time managing people's expectations for solar as it is now, I can't wait to see what I get when they find this article. 

 

To whom should I send it? 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 20, 2020 - 6:43am



 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
Interesting, but there just isn't much energy available in a system like that. Triboelectrics had a bit of a burst a few years ago, but energy yields are tiny.  I spend a lot of time managing people's expectations for solar as it is now, I can't wait to see what I get when they find this article. 

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: May 20, 2020 - 5:16am

New solar panels created by Chinese researchers take energy from the friction of falling raindrops, as well as the sun, so it’s an effective source of renewable energy all year round.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jan 2, 2020 - 3:48pm

Update On Wind Turbines and Birds
ColdMiser

ColdMiser Avatar

Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 22, 2019 - 6:50am



 cc_rider wrote:


 haresfur wrote:


 cc_rider wrote:


 haresfur wrote:
a friend worked for a company that had a very efficient generator for turning heat from a solar tracking mirror into electricity. the cool thing was that it could use any heat source so they could park the mirror at night over a gas flame and continue to generate

the company failed because of cash flow, not because of the technology
 
The idea is pretty simple: use focused solar energy to heat water (or other carrier: I've heard liquid sodium is ideal) to make super-heated steam to power turbines. At night just use a gas burner or excess heat from a cement kiln or whatever.  The big solar arrays I've heard about have a problem with too much heat. They have to de-focus the mirrors to keep from burning up the piping.

A big problem is birds, though. As you get closer to the 'furnace', the solar rays get more focused, i.e. hotter. Apparently it'll vaporize anything that gets too close. Your Thanksgiving turkey is ready in three seconds flat though.
c.

 

Actually, the neat thing was that their system was much simpler. The sunlight was focused onto a linear-drive Stirling engine. Basically a shaft held by bearings that looked like the inserts for 45 records (I assume everyone here are old farts and I don't need to explain what those are). In a nutshell, the heat drives the shaft back and forth through a coil, generating electricity. The parts were simple enough that they thought they could repurpose a closed auto manufacturing plant for production. If I recall, their biggest unit was 3 kW.

I can't remember the conversion efficiency, but it was significantly higher than photovoltaic panels and didn't use fancy silicon. Also solar panel efficiency degrades with time. The tradeoff is having the disk reflector and having to keep it tracking the sun.

They were selling units to the military as generators using diesel as the heat source. More efficient than conventional generators. Not that the price is significant to them, but it turns out driving fuel trucks around a war zone is a dangerous job and the less fuel you move, the safer your troops. As a sideline, they could essentially run the system in reverse as a refrigerator. You can get people to stay hydrated with 30 C water but it's really hard to get them to drink 40 C water.

The boss was trying to set up systems in little villages in Bangladesh. One person power companies that could make a living charging cell phones, etc.
 Sounds really cool. It's a shame it's so hard to get alternative energy projects going. To be fair, they require a big initial investment.
c.


 
Good point, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him pay for the drink

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 21, 2019 - 1:05pm



 haresfur wrote:


 cc_rider wrote:


 haresfur wrote:
a friend worked for a company that had a very efficient generator for turning heat from a solar tracking mirror into electricity. the cool thing was that it could use any heat source so they could park the mirror at night over a gas flame and continue to generate

the company failed because of cash flow, not because of the technology
 
The idea is pretty simple: use focused solar energy to heat water (or other carrier: I've heard liquid sodium is ideal) to make super-heated steam to power turbines. At night just use a gas burner or excess heat from a cement kiln or whatever.  The big solar arrays I've heard about have a problem with too much heat. They have to de-focus the mirrors to keep from burning up the piping.

A big problem is birds, though. As you get closer to the 'furnace', the solar rays get more focused, i.e. hotter. Apparently it'll vaporize anything that gets too close. Your Thanksgiving turkey is ready in three seconds flat though.
c.

 

Actually, the neat thing was that their system was much simpler. The sunlight was focused onto a linear-drive Stirling engine. Basically a shaft held by bearings that looked like the inserts for 45 records (I assume everyone here are old farts and I don't need to explain what those are). In a nutshell, the heat drives the shaft back and forth through a coil, generating electricity. The parts were simple enough that they thought they could repurpose a closed auto manufacturing plant for production. If I recall, their biggest unit was 3 kW.

I can't remember the conversion efficiency, but it was significantly higher than photovoltaic panels and didn't use fancy silicon. Also solar panel efficiency degrades with time. The tradeoff is having the disk reflector and having to keep it tracking the sun.

They were selling units to the military as generators using diesel as the heat source. More efficient than conventional generators. Not that the price is significant to them, but it turns out driving fuel trucks around a war zone is a dangerous job and the less fuel you move, the safer your troops. As a sideline, they could essentially run the system in reverse as a refrigerator. You can get people to stay hydrated with 30 C water but it's really hard to get them to drink 40 C water.

The boss was trying to set up systems in little villages in Bangladesh. One person power companies that could make a living charging cell phones, etc.
 Sounds really cool. It's a shame it's so hard to get alternative energy projects going. To be fair, they require a big initial investment.
c.


haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 21, 2019 - 12:49pm



 cc_rider wrote:


 haresfur wrote:
a friend worked for a company that had a very efficient generator for turning heat from a solar tracking mirror into electricity. the cool thing was that it could use any heat source so they could park the mirror at night over a gas flame and continue to generate

the company failed because of cash flow, not because of the technology
 
The idea is pretty simple: use focused solar energy to heat water (or other carrier: I've heard liquid sodium is ideal) to make super-heated steam to power turbines. At night just use a gas burner or excess heat from a cement kiln or whatever.  The big solar arrays I've heard about have a problem with too much heat. They have to de-focus the mirrors to keep from burning up the piping.

A big problem is birds, though. As you get closer to the 'furnace', the solar rays get more focused, i.e. hotter. Apparently it'll vaporize anything that gets too close. Your Thanksgiving turkey is ready in three seconds flat though.
c.

 

Actually, the neat thing was that their system was much simpler. The sunlight was focused onto a linear-drive Stirling engine. Basically a shaft held by bearings that looked like the inserts for 45 records (I assume everyone here are old farts and I don't need to explain what those are). In a nutshell, the heat drives the shaft back and forth through a coil, generating electricity. The parts were simple enough that they thought they could repurpose a closed auto manufacturing plant for production. If I recall, their biggest unit was 3 kW.

I can't remember the conversion efficiency, but it was significantly higher than photovoltaic panels and didn't use fancy silicon. Also solar panel efficiency degrades with time. The tradeoff is having the disk reflector and having to keep it tracking the sun.

They were selling units to the military as generators using diesel as the heat source. More efficient than conventional generators. Not that the price is significant to them, but it turns out driving fuel trucks around a war zone is a dangerous job and the less fuel you move, the safer your troops. As a sideline, they could essentially run the system in reverse as a refrigerator. You can get people to stay hydrated with 30 C water but it's really hard to get them to drink 40 C water.

The boss was trying to set up systems in little villages in Bangladesh. One person power companies that could make a living charging cell phones, etc.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 40, 41, 42  Next