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Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Sep 26, 2021 - 11:03am
 
3 Words for Political Zealots - Ohmsen - Sep 26, 2021 - 10:51am
 
COVID-19 - kurtster - Sep 26, 2021 - 10:10am
 
Got a good recipe you care to share ??? - Ohmsen - Sep 26, 2021 - 9:20am
 
The Obituary Page - KurtfromLaQuinta - Sep 26, 2021 - 9:13am
 
Wanna Race? - Ohmsen - Sep 26, 2021 - 9:06am
 
Marijuana: Baked News. - kurtster - Sep 26, 2021 - 9:04am
 
to laoz - ScottFromWyoming - Sep 26, 2021 - 9:03am
 
Comics! - KurtfromLaQuinta - Sep 26, 2021 - 9:01am
 
All Dogs Go To Heaven - Dog Pix - oldviolin - Sep 26, 2021 - 8:45am
 
Immigration - kurtster - Sep 26, 2021 - 8:27am
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Sep 26, 2021 - 8:23am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Sep 26, 2021 - 8:20am
 
ONE WORD - oldviolin - Sep 26, 2021 - 8:11am
 
What The Hell Buddy? - oldviolin - Sep 26, 2021 - 8:06am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Sep 26, 2021 - 7:48am
 
Britain - Red_Dragon - Sep 26, 2021 - 6:05am
 
Stream breaking every few seconds - bufes - Sep 25, 2021 - 11:51pm
 
Republican Party - Steely_D - Sep 25, 2021 - 8:17pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - Manbird - Sep 25, 2021 - 7:06pm
 
2020 Elections - islander - Sep 25, 2021 - 6:28pm
 
Derplahoma! - Lazy8 - Sep 25, 2021 - 8:06am
 
Shuttle, ISS and other Real Space Ships - Red_Dragon - Sep 25, 2021 - 7:40am
 
TOILET FUN! - R_P - Sep 24, 2021 - 9:35pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Sep 24, 2021 - 7:16pm
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - miamizsun - Sep 24, 2021 - 7:00pm
 
Joe Biden - R_P - Sep 24, 2021 - 6:49pm
 
Manbird's Episiotomy Stitch Licking Clinic - KEEP OUT - oldviolin - Sep 24, 2021 - 7:31am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Sep 24, 2021 - 6:25am
 
Your favorite tshirts - Red_Dragon - Sep 24, 2021 - 5:48am
 
Music documentaries - oldviolin - Sep 23, 2021 - 7:42pm
 
Trump - Red_Dragon - Sep 23, 2021 - 6:27pm
 
Poetry Forum - Antigone - Sep 23, 2021 - 4:57pm
 
The Great Reset - Ohmsen - Sep 23, 2021 - 2:17pm
 
Putin Owns Trump - Ohmsen - Sep 23, 2021 - 2:09pm
 
Play the Blues - black321 - Sep 23, 2021 - 1:03pm
 
Way Cool Video - Ohmsen - Sep 23, 2021 - 12:51pm
 
A motivational quote - black321 - Sep 23, 2021 - 12:13pm
 
volcano! - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Sep 23, 2021 - 11:05am
 
Bear! - oldviolin - Sep 23, 2021 - 9:27am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - oldviolin - Sep 23, 2021 - 9:01am
 
Military Matters - Red_Dragon - Sep 22, 2021 - 4:37pm
 
Think About It - miamizsun - Sep 22, 2021 - 3:09pm
 
Google Assistant not streaming RP Main Mix - temexter - Sep 22, 2021 - 3:08pm
 
Interesting or Weird Cover Versions - miamizsun - Sep 22, 2021 - 2:07pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - haresfur - Sep 22, 2021 - 2:05pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Sep 22, 2021 - 9:58am
 
Climate Change - westslope - Sep 22, 2021 - 8:27am
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - Proclivities - Sep 22, 2021 - 5:58am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - sunybuny - Sep 22, 2021 - 4:49am
 
New Music - oppositelock - Sep 21, 2021 - 7:15pm
 
Sunrise, Sunset - oldviolin - Sep 21, 2021 - 1:58pm
 
If not RP, what are you listening to right now? - rgio - Sep 21, 2021 - 12:50pm
 
The war on funk is over! - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2021 - 10:39am
 
Crazy? Quiz - KurtfromLaQuinta - Sep 21, 2021 - 10:25am
 
BACK TO THE 80's - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2021 - 9:11am
 
Make Scott laugh - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2021 - 8:11am
 
International Day of Peace - miamizsun - Sep 21, 2021 - 4:21am
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - yuel - Sep 21, 2021 - 3:05am
 
Things You Thought Today - haresfur - Sep 21, 2021 - 12:35am
 
What the hell OV? - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2021 - 9:42pm
 
That's good advice - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2021 - 8:49pm
 
Breaking News - Red_Dragon - Sep 20, 2021 - 7:52pm
 
Hello from France - westslope - Sep 20, 2021 - 6:45pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - ScottFromWyoming - Sep 20, 2021 - 10:17am
 
What is the meaning of this? - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2021 - 8:58am
 
Philosophy (Meaty Metaphysical Munchables!) - sirdroseph - Sep 20, 2021 - 5:19am
 
The Future is here! - sirdroseph - Sep 20, 2021 - 4:42am
 
Taxes, Taxes, Taxes (and Taxes) - R_P - Sep 19, 2021 - 4:05pm
 
Crazy conspiracy theories - Ohmsen - Sep 19, 2021 - 2:11pm
 
Photos you have taken of yourself - Antigone - Sep 19, 2021 - 1:52pm
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Sep 19, 2021 - 11:43am
 
Recommended documentaries - Ohmsen - Sep 19, 2021 - 11:37am
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - miamizsun - Sep 19, 2021 - 6:40am
 
-PUNS- Fast Food - haresfur - Sep 18, 2021 - 11:03pm
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 278, 279, 280  Next
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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 10:10am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
As with anything that the government touches, follow the money.  It will lead you to answers (where to look for answers) faster than any other method.

I found the end of the rainbow!
 
Whatever.  There are what I broadly call three camps.  Those who believe this is only about Public Health.  Those who are not sure about anything anymore and are waiting.  Those who believe that this is an excuse for something else.

The .gov is an HMO.  It tells you that if you want that, you must do this first. 

A PPO lets one pick where you start. 

The Constitution is the framework for a PPO.  The .gov bureaucracy as an HMO is designed to tell you what hoops you need to jump through and creates as many hoops as it can to defend and justify itself.  It looks out for itself, not those it is supposed to serve.  The Constitution allows for independent thinking and decision making within a formal framework that supersedes all else, especially when government tries to get in the way and limit your choices.

Right now the government is telling everyone what they must do.  By hook, crook or decree.  But it is not being implemented universally.  It is discriminating by picking who is exempt.  If it is for public health and safety, then no one should be exempt.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 10:03am

 kurtster wrote:

As with anything that the government touches, follow the money.  It will lead you to answers (where to look for answers) faster than any other method.

Capitalism


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 9:34am

 kurtster wrote:
As with anything that the government touches, follow the money.  It will lead you to answers (where to look for answers) faster than any other method.

I found the end of the rainbow!
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 9:29am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Evolution is an endlessly fascinating phenomenon, but we're witnessing something new: a disease has evolved lobbyists and a PR team. A secondary infection of the mind. This will take a while to clear up.
 
As with anything that the government touches, follow the money.  It will lead you to answers (where to look for answers) faster than any other method.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 9:22am

 Lazy8 wrote:


Evolution is an endlessly fascinating phenomenon, but we're witnessing something new: a disease has evolved lobbyists and a PR team. A secondary infection of the mind. This will take a while to clear up.



That's a spectacular take. I'm stealing it.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 9:11am

 sirdroseph wrote:
You did not address natural immunity at all. I stand by every single word he said evidently you only listened to the parts you wanted to. He nor I am an anti vaxer and there is nothing in his comments that suggest that in the slightest. I question your motivation and desire for seeking to have a discussion that I am not having, these are not the droids you are looking for.

I commented on the aspects I took issue with. Natural immunity is fine and all, but that inoculation method has a remarkably poor safety record—especially compared to the (much much) safer alternatives. Definitely wouldn't get FDA approval.

He doesn't call himself anti-vax but is spewing a fog of antivax arguments, which I took issue with. Not in detail (already done that, tired of doing it) because that doesn't seem to help.

I do lose patience with this. We are about to cancel the second dance of the season here due to ridiculously high infection rates in the community; our ICU is at capacity and the hospital is bringing in 10 National Guard medics to help with the load. I just got off the phone with a friend spending his 71st birthday in quarantine with a case.

We've had the fix for this for 6 months. We could be done with this now.

This video mirrors your views, so I'm going to repeat my response to the video: the questions he raises have answers, from people who actually know what they're talking about. People who do the science of medicine for a living and have saved millions of lives from preventable diseases. These answers aren't even hard to find. Not finding them—not even looking for them—before going in front of an audience to tell them what they want to hear is morally bankrupt.

But actual competence in the relevant field isn't convincing to you; it has to come from a comedian or a financial podcaster or a Nigerian witch doctor or an herb salesman or the voices in your head or anywhere but from someone who has dedicated their life to understanding the mechanisms of the human body and disease vectors.

You have absolute sovereignty over your body. You should be free to control what goes into it and how you treat it. I'm not arguing with your right to that decision, I'm arguing with the justifications you're pushing for it. Not just for you (who I care about and don't want to see get sick) but for those reading this who may be trying to decide what to do. I am soooo tired of hearing about people dying from this, laying around for weeks sick, clogging hospitals, burning out doctors and nurses, spreading the disease to the vulnerable.

Evolution is an endlessly fascinating phenomenon, but we're witnessing something new: a disease has evolved lobbyists and a PR team. A secondary infection of the mind. This will take a while to clear up.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 8:08am

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Thanks !  I'll pay out of pocket if I have to.  I do realize that since I have been vaccinated it won't tell me if I have ever had it.  That ship obviously sailed with the jab, who knew back then.  But it has been 6 1/2 months (march 14) since my second Moderna, which we have also found out that the one month spacing between doses was wrong, too.

I'll take it and since they assign a numerical value does show up, I'll follow up in about 3 months to look for any changes.  Only then will I consider a 3rd jab.  It is now off the table waiting for further developments and revelations. 

I have tried real hard to stay informed listening to all sides and did make the right pick of the three, Moderna as time has born out. 

For the others out there who think I'm full of shit and just got lucky, it's my life and I'm doing what is best for me as I learn and understand things.  I do have several reasons for the Moderna (and they can be found here if anyone wishes to search or backscroll), it was not a lucky guess.  It was an informed decision.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 8:02am

 sirdroseph wrote:
You did not address natural immunity at all.

I have not been infected...nor have I been vaccinated.

Should I get vaccinated, or wait to get sick and assume natural immunity?
sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 7:32am

 kurtster wrote:
 
 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 7:01am

 sirdroseph wrote:
Lazy8 wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:
This guy perfectly encapsulates my exact position on this whole pandemic:{#Clap}
 

He's right, questions deserve answers. They have answers. Antivaxxers just don't like them. "The story keeps changing" and recommendations have shifted over time: correct, the story does keep changing. When a brand new disease arrives people in charge of public health have to figure it out in real time, and they use the disease models they're familiar with. As we (and they) learn better should we stick to the first guess for consistency's sake? I'm not going to defend the CDC's early insistence that all testing go thru it, or the FDA's suppression of rapid test technology. That kind of bureaucratic butt-covering and obstruction isn't unique to the pandemic and I'm glad it was exposed; I just wish that exposure would lead to reform. It won't, but that's a separate complaint. They're not dishonest, they're not incompetent, they're human. And unfortunately the only tools they're familiar with are command and regulation. There is a lot to be criticized about the government's response to covid, but the course of the disease is out of their hands at this point. It's up to us. And we're failing harder than the government ever did. This could all be over, at least in rich counties like the US. It could be reduced to what the conspiracy theorists claimed it was: a bad flu season. The tools are right there, all we need to do is pick them up and use them. But too many of us don't, held back by ignorance and superstition. So it goes on and the death toll mounts.
 
You did not address natural immunity at all.  I stand by every single word he said evidently you only listened to the parts you wanted to. He nor I am an anti vaxer and there is nothing in his comments that suggest that in the slightest.  I question your motivation and desire for seeking to have a discussion that I am not having, these are not the droids you are looking for.{#Stupid}
 
I've watched this as well and would use it to explain my POV on all of this as well.

Good luck with your antibody test !  I have long said that it is the most meaningful test and have been trying to get one for a long time.  I guess I have not been trying hard enough.

Is this through your doctor or some other outfit ?
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 5:41am

There are 2 categories of humans on this planet in regards to covid.  Those that have gotten it and those that will. The current vaccine technology allows for us to mitigate the symptoms for those who have yet to acquire it and natural immunity seems to be the only present condition that protects us from getting it again though how robust this immunity is will only be answered with time.  I am hopeful that some day maybe we will have a vaccine that actually offers immunity, but these things usually take many years to develop. I am hopeful with Novavax, we shall see.  In the meantime, if you are at high risk, get vaccinated.  If you are a teenage boy, I would advise against it.  If you are a healthy adult, I pray we do not descend into a total authoritarian state and you are able to maintain freedom of choice.{#Meditate} In the long run, our reaction and how much the state will gain control of our lives is much more alarming than the perpetual body count.{#Eek}
 
 
 
 
Edit: Get an antibody test!  They will not tell you too, but it is far more relevant to your situation and behavior than a regular test to see if you currently have it.  A positive covid test is a good thing, but a negative test only tells you that you do not currently have it and is not very useful information.  I have one scheduled for next week and pray it comes out positive.{#Pray}
sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 5:14am

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2021 - 4:27am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:
This guy perfectly encapsulates my exact position on this whole pandemic:{#Clap}
 

He's right, questions deserve answers. They have answers. Antivaxxers just don't like them. "The story keeps changing" and recommendations have shifted over time: correct, the story does keep changing. When a brand new disease arrives people in charge of public health have to figure it out in real time, and they use the disease models they're familiar with. As we (and they) learn better should we stick to the first guess for consistency's sake? I'm not going to defend the CDC's early insistence that all testing go thru it, or the FDA's suppression of rapid test technology. That kind of bureaucratic butt-covering and obstruction isn't unique to the pandemic and I'm glad it was exposed; I just wish that exposure would lead to reform. It won't, but that's a separate complaint. They're not dishonest, they're not incompetent, they're human. And unfortunately the only tools they're familiar with are command and regulation. There is a lot to be criticized about the government's response to covid, but the course of the disease is out of their hands at this point. It's up to us. And we're failing harder than the government ever did. This could all be over, at least in rich counties like the US. It could be reduced to what the conspiracy theorists claimed it was: a bad flu season. The tools are right there, all we need to do is pick them up and use them. But too many of us don't, held back by ignorance and superstition. So it goes on and the death toll mounts.
 
You did not address natural immunity at all.  I stand by every single word he said evidently you only listened to the parts you wanted to. He nor I am an anti vaxer and there is nothing in his comments that suggest that in the slightest.  I question your motivation and desire for seeking to have a discussion that I am not having, these are not the droids you are looking for.{#Stupid}
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 9:07pm

 kurtster wrote:
No one can fault those who saw the data when it first came out from a respected and credible source and went with it.

Actually you can fault them (esp. if they are dishonest anti-vaxxers)...
Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been
certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical
practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news
media as established information.
"Went with it" meaning making it appear as though it is established information, as well as making health-related behavioral suggestions ("don't get jabbed").

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 2:30pm

 westslope wrote: 
And even the story itself has had a correction since first published.

Sometimes and somethings should be held for peer review before any release, especially if something profoundly out of the ordinary is concluded.

No one can fault those who saw the data when it first came out from a respected and credible source and went with it.  You can close the barn doors after the horse got out, but the horse is still out.  

And it is like any other kind of reporting when a retraction is made.  No one sees the retraction and the original error stands.  Maybe if the retractions started being put on the front page where they belong, like the original story instead of deeply buried, people would be more cautious when they see how common errors are and how many retractions do get made.

Oh well ... 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 1:43pm

 Steely_D wrote:

more on the disaster that was the Swedish experiment

https://www.newyorker.com/news...


Nobody saw that coming, right?
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 12:41pm

more on the disaster that was the Swedish experiment

https://www.newyorker.com/news...
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 11:49am

A Canadian COVID-19 study that turned out to be wrong has spread like wildfire among anti-vaxxers

Thank God for peer reviewers.  
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 11:37am

 Red_Dragon wrote:


+1


Tighty Whitey & The Skid Marks

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Sep 25, 2021 - 11:29am

 Lazy8 wrote:

He's right, questions deserve answers.

They have answers. Antivaxxers just don't like them.

"The story keeps changing" and recommendations have shifted over time: correct, the story does keep changing. When a brand new disease arrives people in charge of public health have to figure it out in real time, and they use the disease models they're familiar with. As we (and they) learn better should we stick to the first guess for consistency's sake?

I'm not going to defend the CDC's early insistence that all testing go thru it, or the FDA's suppression of rapid test technology. That kind of bureaucratic butt-covering and obstruction isn't unique to the pandemic and I'm glad it was exposed; I just wish that exposure would lead to reform. It won't, but that's a separate complaint.

They're not dishonest, they're not incompetent, they're human. And unfortunately the only tools they're familiar with are command and regulation. There is a lot to be criticized about the government's response to covid, but the course of the disease is out of their hands at this point. It's up to us. And we're failing harder than the government ever did.

This could all be over, at least in rich counties like the US. It could be reduced to what the conspiracy theorists claimed it was: a bad flu season. The tools are right there, all we need to do is pick them up and use them. But too many of us don't, held back by ignorance and superstition.

So it goes on and the death toll mounts.


+1
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