The Independent has learned that prosecutors are prepared to ask grand jurors to vote on charges as early as Thursday
The Department of Justice is preparing to ask a Washington, DC grand jury to indict former president Donald Trump for violating the Espionage Act and for obstruction of justice as soon as Thursday, adding further weight to the legal baggage facing Mr Trump as he campaigns for his partyâs nomination in next yearâs presidential election.
The Independent has learned that prosecutors are ready to ask grand jurors to approve an indictment against Mr Trump for violating a portion of the US criminal code known as Section 793, which prohibits âgathering, transmitting or losingâ any âinformation respecting the national defenceâ.
The use of Section 793, which does not make reference to classified information, is understood to be a strategic decision by prosecutors that has been made to short-circuit Mr Trumpâs ability to claim that he used his authority as president to declassify documents he removed from the White House and kept at his Palm Beach, Florida property long after his term expired on 20 January 2021.
That section of US criminal law is written in a way that could encompass Mr Trumpâs conduct even if he was authorised to possess the information as president because it states that anyone who âlawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document ...relating to the national defence,â and âwillfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive itâ can be punished by as many as 10 years in prison.
It is understood that prosecutors intend to ask grand jurors to vote on the indictment on Thursday, but that vote could be delayed as much as a week until the next meeting of the grand jury to allow for a complete presentation of evidence, or to allow investigators to gather more evidence for presentation if necessary.
A separate grand jury that is meeting in Florida has also been hearing evidence in the documents investigation. That grand jury was empaneled in part to overcome legal issues posed by the fact that some of the crimes allegedly committed by Mr Trump took place in that jurisdiction, not in Washington. Under federal law, prosecutors must bring charges against federal defendants in the jurisdiction where the crimes took place.
Even if grand jurors vote to return an indictment against the ex-president this week, it is likely that those charges would remain sealed until both the Washington and Florida grand juries complete their work.
What's interesting is that the Trump tribalists naturally try and project and say that there is an equal Biden tribalism at play. I for one don't see that because I guess my mind is still open as to who I would vote for come the general election. I don't see myself voting Republican (even though I am a registered Republican) because I don't see anyone coming from that side that didn't support Trump and/or his continued election lies. That's a deal-breaker for me. On the Democrat side I would look to support Biden or anyone else that would emerge from the primary if that unlikely scenario would come to pass. The bottom line is I would be happy to support someone other than Biden if given a better alternative. But if it shakes out Biden vs Trump (as everyone assumes) I will again support Biden as the alternative is unpalatable.
Do I think Biden is a great president?... "No"...
Agreed. Genitalia Grabber. Sexual Assault conviction. Porn star payoff. Inject Bleach. Just 11, 780 more votes. Capitol Insurrection that resulted in 5 deaths. Massive liar and grifter. I prefer aged wisdom over toddler whining.
Whether he effectively articulated a platform or not, he did have one - cut taxes (though the impact of individual tax cuts were mixed), cut regulations, cut immigration, cut alliances, cut ties with china/bring back us mfg (biden hasnt altered, and perhaps became more adversarial),...so lots of cuts...and these were more or less in-line with what most of the GOP wanted, ergo why he had gotten so much GOP support.
Given the events/behavior after the 2020 elections...why he continues to get so much support is beyond me...other than tribalism.
Obviously two completely different candidates, but arguably its the same reason why democrats support someone as inept as Biden.
So, a platform is retroactively defined by actions? Kind of like building a house with no architectural plans to see what you get and at the end say: "Yup... that's exactly what I wanted?" Seems a bit like the tail wagging the dog but Ok it is what it is.
Tribalism at it's exteme. Somehow people are convinced that Trump is the answer... we all saw with our own two eyes that he isn't. His presidency was an unqualified disaster and his actions to hold on to that presidency are beyond anything we have ever witnessed. And some people want four more years of that? I guess in their minds he didn't f*ck up America enough in those first 4 years... they need give him another 4 to really finish the job he started.
What's interesting is that the Trump tribalists naturally try and project and say that there is an equal Biden tribalism at play. I for one don't see that because I guess my mind is still open as to who I would vote for come the general election. I don't see myself voting Republican (even though I am a registered Republican) because I don't see anyone coming from that side that didn't support Trump and/or his continued election lies. That's a deal-breaker for me. On the Democrat side I would look to support Biden or anyone else that would emerge from the primary if that unlikely scenario would come to pass. The bottom line is I would be happy to support someone other than Biden if given a better alternative. But if it shakes out Biden vs Trump (as everyone assumes) I will again support Biden as the alternative is unpalatable.
Do I think Biden is a great president?... "No"... do I think Trump is worse?... unequivocally "Yes".
Trump is dumb. Thereâs no hiding that fact and he reinforces it almost daily in his words and actions. The real question is⦠is he dangerous and that clearly is a âYesâ. Heâs upped the level of distrust and discord of peopleâs view of the government and their view of others. We see that he is not a unifying force by any means. Rather, he sows and thrives on creating and spreading lies and chaos. When has this ever been a âpresidentialâ quality?
Iâve lost patience with Trump supporters that are willfully ignorant to what he has done but I especially take issue with those that know exactly what he has done and the damage that he has caused and seemingly want more chaos and damage done to this country. They want more of this because⦠like their leader⦠they never admit the mistake and want to double-down on it. They have effectively stopped thinking for themselves and have subjugated their identity to this âforceâ. The force that has come to represent the big âf*ck youâ to the non-initiated and the government establishment. They want Trump as president not because of anything he can accomplish, they want him because of the sh*t he can stir up and the visceral reaction he elicits from the left. Doesnât seem any more complicated that that from where I sit.
Iâve come to realize that I donât share the same vision of the world I would like to live in vs most die hard Trump supporters. I wish I could say that I am against Trumpâs platform but since he never articulates one I would have to assume that, if he did, I would be at odds with it. The bottom line is that the term âfinding common groundâ for me with core Trump supports just isnât even feasible. Battle lines are drawn. So be it.
Whether he effectively articulated a platform or not, he did have one - cut taxes (though the impact of individual tax cuts were mixed), cut regulations, cut immigration, cut alliances, cut ties with china/bring back us mfg (biden hasnt altered, and perhaps became more adversarial),...so lots of cuts...and these were more or less in-line with what most of the GOP wanted, ergo why he had gotten so much GOP support.
Given the events/behavior after the 2020 elections...why he continues to get so much support is beyond me...other than tribalism.
Obviously two completely different candidates, but arguably its the same reason why democrats support someone as inept as Biden.
@rgio: the Democrats are committed to Biden. Presidential elections are largely determined years ahead of time by big money committing to one or two candidates. It's shockingly expensive to win a presidential election: according to Open Secrets, Dems and Repubs combined spent $6.6 billion on the 2020 presidential election. I can't imagine the Democratic party believes it has a better chance of holding on to the White House by backing a dark horse candidate against a sitting president.
I completely agree, but it is reckless to not have a plan B for that much money in case something changes, specifically with his health. If Joe is able, there is little doubt he's going to run... but...
I think the Dems should plan for the "what if", much the way the Republicans are starting to smell blood in the water with Trump. I think Biden is a lock against Trump...but not so much against a younger, smarter option.
The amount of money being spent demands alternatives to all scenarios. Just in case.
We shall see if Biden is defeated in the 2024 general election whether he will publicly declare the election to be fraudulent on the night (wee hours of next day) of the election and continually thereafter, call state election officials to inveigh upon them to find votes that should have gone to him, call for citizens to come to DC to âprotestâ that fraudulent election and when it resulted in a riot at the Capitol insist that these were patriots.
I am pretty sure that would never happen.
Would not⦠and unlike Trump supporters⦠if Biden (hypothetically) were to pull any of those crazy moves I would be one of the first to turn my back on him. My support of an individual (unlike others) does actually have limits. Those would (and should) all be deal-breakers.
yeah, he did. He sure did have a lot to say about lot's of people that seemed to have helped to steal the last three elections.
Of course he is nothing more than a partisan hack as far as you and most everyone else here is concerned.
From what I've read in the papers, Durham's reputation is badly damaged. He got one lawyer to admit to doctoring a FISA application but failed at just about everything else.
What Durham has to do with Biden is beyond me.
@rgio: the Democrats are committed to Biden. Presidential elections are largely determined years ahead of time by big money committing to one or two candidates. It's shockingly expensive to win a presidential election: according to Open Secrets, Dems and Repubs combined spent $6.6 billion on the 2020 presidential election. I can't imagine the Democratic party believes it has a better chance of holding on to the White House by backing a dark horse candidate against a sitting president.
As for moderate Republicans appearing and knocking out Trump or DeSantis—do moderate Republican politicians exist anymore? Unfortunately a lot of committed Republicans are still thinking and acting along the lines of "government is bad" and "Washington is corrupt" even though their darling made the government worse and set new records for corruption.
As I see it, we're stuck with Biden vs. Trump or possibly DeSantis in 2024. Still hoping Trump gets tried and convicted before election day.
4 years, two failed prosecutions, one guilty plea and a long winded report with a fantastical section about all the stuff he was unable to actually prove.
