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• • • The Mandela Effect • • • - oldviolin - Jan 19, 2022 - 9:26am
 
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Think About It - miamizsun - Jan 14, 2022 - 11:45am
 
Media Matters - Red_Dragon - Jan 14, 2022 - 11:38am
 
let it spin!! - oldviolin - Jan 14, 2022 - 10:46am
 
Is Wikipedia Objective? - miamizsun - Jan 14, 2022 - 10:17am
 
Remembering the Good Old Days - Steely_D - Jan 14, 2022 - 8:23am
 
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OUR CATS!! - sunybuny - Jan 14, 2022 - 5:52am
 
Baseball, anyone? - rgio - Jan 14, 2022 - 5:01am
 
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Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 11, 2022 - 11:56am

 Steely_D wrote:


I'm not getting the point of vilifying this very educated, very experienced, many-president-serving infectious disease specialist. Are people really still trying to say there's no infection? Are they trying to say it's not hurting and killing people?
Are they trying to say the hospitals and clinics aren't overwhelmed by the illness it's causing?
Because all that is true and mocking Fauci doesn't make it untrue.

So what reason on God's green earth would Fauci have to lie that masks and immunizations do work when they really don't? What does he gain from that?

All this vehemence and nitpicking and booing of Dr. Fauci is one thing only: adolescents (who think they're smarter than their parents) rebelling against authority. 

The truth is that the critics are not more well read, not more well intentioned, not more capable, not more authoritative. 
They just don't want to eat their vegetables or clean up their room and they're yelling "you're not my real dad" and telling all their friends how bad their folks are while they sneak a smoke behind the garage and feel like they're getting away with something.





Cranky infant and Chronic adolescent syndrome?
Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jan 11, 2022 - 11:49am

 Steely_D wrote:


Watters? I hope he breaks a leg. If he’s angry, he could shoot his mouth off.
Maybe he’ll get killed in the ratings. That could cost him an arm and a leg.
I wonder if he’ll get into a heated argument and someone will rip his head off, or tear him a new butthole.

Of course, these are all metaphors. I would never suggest violence against anyone, like he didn’t about Fauci.




Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jan 10, 2022 - 5:22pm

 Steely_D wrote:


Watters? I hope he breaks a leg. If he’s angry, he could shoot his mouth off.
Maybe he’ll get killed in the ratings. That could cost him an arm and a leg.
I wonder if he’ll get into a heated argument and someone will rip his head off, or tear him a new butthole.

Of course, these are all metaphors. I would never suggest violence against anyone, like he didn’t about Fauci.




Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 10, 2022 - 5:16pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Watters? I hope he breaks a leg. If he’s angry, he could shoot his mouth off.
Maybe he’ll get killed in the ratings. That could cost him an arm and a leg.
I wonder if he’ll get into a heated argument and someone will rip his head off, or tear him a new butthole.

Of course, these are all metaphors. I would never suggest violence against anyone, like he didn’t about Fauci.
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 10, 2022 - 9:21am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 rgio wrote:
Out there? 

Your media bubble may not acknowledge any of this complexity, but life is never that simple and clear-cut. It's not about certainty, it's about risk, and risk is hard for us poor humans to understand. But we need to try.
 
indeed...
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jan 10, 2022 - 9:00am

Fox installs right-wing flame-thrower Jesse Watters to 7 p.m. slot, cementing network's new programming strategy
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 10:51am

 kurtster wrote:

questioning St. Antony's cred


I'm not getting the point of vilifying this very educated, very experienced, many-president-serving infectious disease specialist. Are people really still trying to say there's no infection? Are they trying to say it's not hurting and killing people?
Are they trying to say the hospitals and clinics aren't overwhelmed by the illness it's causing?
Because all that is true and mocking Fauci doesn't make it untrue.

So what reason on God's green earth would Fauci have to lie that masks and immunizations do work when they really don't? What does he gain from that?

All this vehemence and nitpicking and booing of Dr. Fauci is one thing only: adolescents (who think they're smarter than their parents) rebelling against authority. 

The truth is that the critics are not more well read, not more well intentioned, not more capable, not more authoritative. 
They just don't want to eat their vegetables or clean up their room and they're yelling "you're not my real dad" and telling all their friends how bad their folks are while they sneak a smoke behind the garage and feel like they're getting away with something.



Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 10:47am

 rgio wrote:
Out there? 

You have a few here who will tell you how Fauci funded the gain of function research at the Wuhan lab, and that he is directly responsible for creating the pandemic that China intentionally released on the world.  Following those comments, they'll express outrage at a lifelong bureaucrat taking away their rights and freedoms (closing things, remote learning, mask-wearing, vaccine mandates).  In the next block, they'll complain that Biden has done nothing to control COVID and that his inability to handle it is driving small businesses out and fueling inflation.

Oh yeah...they're also 90% of the very sick and hospitalized right now.

Some of those arguments might be defensible, but there is zero consistency in the logic when you consider more than a single issue simultaneously.  It's cultish insanity.

You're lumping every critic/skeptic/objector-to-overreach together as a single homogeneous mass. T'ain't so.

I think my opinions on vaccines, their effectiveness, and their safety are pretty obvious around here. I also don't want anyone forced to get vaxxed against their will. In the current overheated you're-with-us-or-against-us environment that makes me simultaneously an antivaxxer and a a shill for the Faucist Regime. If anyone who deviates from your orthodoxy to any extent whatsoever is The Enemy then you have very few allies.

It is possible that two things can be true at the same time: vaccines can have side effects and still be lower risk than catching a disease. Vaccines can be less than 100% effective and still be a crucial tool in stopping a pandemic. There can be a spectrum of effectiveness for masks without masks being useless theater. There also are situations where imperfect protection makes wearing a mask pointless.

Not everything is about politics. My very very blue in-laws are down with the coof as I type this, tossing our Christmas plans into a cocked hat. Donald F#cking Trump is urging his supporters to get boosted. Not every unvaccinated person wears a MAGA hat.

Your media bubble may not acknowledge any of this complexity, but life is never that simple and clear-cut. It's not about certainty, it's about risk, and risk is hard for us poor humans to understand. But we need to try.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 10:42am

 kurtster wrote:
Ain't no one else here left who is questioning St. Antony's cred or the origin of the virus.

Boo and Hoo. False too.

Jiggz



Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 10:40am

 rgio wrote:

Out there? 

You have a few here who will tell you how Fauci funded the gain of function research at the Wuhan lab, and that he is directly responsible for creating the pandemic that China intentionally released on the world.  Following those comments, they'll express outrage at a lifelong bureaucrat taking away their rights and freedoms (closing things, remote learning, mask-wearing, vaccine mandates).  In the next block, they'll complain that Biden has done nothing to control COVID and that his inability to handle it is driving small businesses out and fueling inflation.

Oh yeah...they're also 90% of the very sick and hospitalized right now.

Some of those arguments might be defensible, but there is zero consistency in the logic when you consider more than a single issue simultaneously.  It's cultish insanity.



Yeh, and....?

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 10:27am

 rgio wrote:
 Lazy8 wrote:

There actually are people out there, hyped up by this rhetoric, who will make actual death threats. Who will take those seriously when every word is inflated into an act of war?

Out there? 

You have a few here

who will tell you how Fauci funded the gain of function research at the Wuhan lab, and that he is directly responsible for creating the pandemic that China intentionally released on the world.  Following those comments, they'll express outrage at a lifelong bureaucrat taking away their rights and freedoms (closing things, remote learning, mask-wearing, vaccine mandates).  In the next block, they'll complain that Biden has done nothing to control COVID and that his inability to handle it is driving small businesses out and fueling inflation. Oh yeah...they're also 90% of the very sick and hospitalized right now.
 
I guess you're referring to me, eh ?

Ain't no one else here left who is questioning St. Antony's cred or the origin of the virus.  It's all natural, straight from the bat cave.  Right ?
And Biden ?  Yeah, he's top shelf stuff.  He has been so effective in dealing with CV and especially inflation.

Mandate, mandate, mandate ...
.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 9:58am


rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 8:28am

 Lazy8 wrote:

There actually are people out there, hyped up by this rhetoric, who will make actual death threats. Who will take those seriously when every word is inflated into an act of war?

Out there? 

You have a few here who will tell you how Fauci funded the gain of function research at the Wuhan lab, and that he is directly responsible for creating the pandemic that China intentionally released on the world.  Following those comments, they'll express outrage at a lifelong bureaucrat taking away their rights and freedoms (closing things, remote learning, mask-wearing, vaccine mandates).  In the next block, they'll complain that Biden has done nothing to control COVID and that his inability to handle it is driving small businesses out and fueling inflation.

Oh yeah...they're also 90% of the very sick and hospitalized right now.

Some of those arguments might be defensible, but there is zero consistency in the logic when you consider more than a single issue simultaneously.  It's cultish insanity.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 7:50am

 steeler wrote:
The news cycle began when Dr. Fauci was asked by John Berman on CNN about his reaction to Watters’ speech advocating that people subject Fauci to a “rhetorical kill shot.” Fauci responded that he found it “horrible” and that he thought it was a fireable offense. He was expressing his raw frustration with a vilification campaign against him that has resulted in his having to be protected by security guards and an environment in which public statements like this directed at him are seen as ho-hum events part of today’s political discourse. That raw statement was news and the story was picked up by media outlets across the board. It was not a manufactured story. Fauci’s outrage was not manufactured. He saw Watters’ speech as being dangerously provocative. Can you blame him?

I have viewed the entire segment of Watters’ speech. It is readily available and was a link in many of the online news stories. Like Fauci, I found it to be beyond the pale because of the extremely poor word choices, given that Fauci has been the recipient of numerous death threats and recently was compared on air to Dr. Mengele. It was not just the use of “kill shot.” Watters also advocated that Fauci be the subject of an “ambush” and he repeated a few times that the result of this rhetorical “ambush” would be that “he’s dead. He’s dead.” And he said it would only take “30 seconds.” It is difficult to dismiss this as just the use of colorful but innocuous language, a tempest in a teapot nit just stirred, but conjured by the media.

The news cycle began a long time before that. This isn't the first example of this kind of behavior—of media dot-connecting to shade opposition rhetoric as something sinister. There have been some recent high-profile cases where media outlets have even had to cough up large settlements for this behavior; an extraordinarily difficult case to make in our legal system, but which their behavior warranted.

We don't know what was shown to Dr. Fauci to provoke his reaction, but I very much doubt it was the whole speech in context. He's a thoughtful guy with a pretty thick skin. It was likely the edited version highlighting the scary scary words; they wanted a colorful reaction and they provoked one.

I sympathize with Dr. Fauci and find the right-wing vilification of him appalling, as you may have read in these very pages. It's part of a pattern of take-no-prisoners rhetoric that our political and media cultures are addicted to. Returning fire against his political enemies does not in any way make this situation better. The war goes on, it escalates, and trust in the media erodes. There actually are people out there, hyped up by this rhetoric, who will make actual death threats. Who will take those seriously when every word is inflated into an act of war?

Maybe worse, what if people try to reach across the barbed wire in this environment? Clearly they can't be trusted. No one on The Other Team is ever sincere, everything they say is a coded message, that outstretched hand must have a dagger up its sleeve. So the war goes on, because war is the only metaphor our media understands anymore.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 23, 2021 - 6:50am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Or rather:
See how easy that was, and how dishonest?

How does one go about making sure someone else (especially a political rival) doesn't spin something into a sinister plot? Everything's a dog whistle, no one can be trusted to mean what they actually say. Everybody can edit but nobody will read.

Welcome to the media landscape.

The news cycle began when Dr. Fauci was asked by John Berman on CNN about his reaction to Watters’ speech advocating that people subject Fauci to a “rhetorical kill shot.” Fauci responded that he found it “horrible” and that he thought it was a fireable offense. He was expressing his raw frustration with a vilification campaign against him that has resulted in his having to be protected by security guards and an environment in which public statements like this directed at him are seen as ho-hum events part of today’s political discourse. That raw statement was news and the story was picked up by media outlets across the board. It was not a manufactured story. Fauci’s outrage was not manufactured. He saw Watters’ speech as being dangerously provocative. Can you blame him?

I have viewed the entire segment of Watters’ speech. It is readily available and was a link in many of the online news stories. Like Fauci, I found it to be beyond the pale because of the extremely poor word choices, given that Fauci has been the recipient of numerous death threats and recently was compared on air to Dr. Mengele. It was not just the use of “kill shot.” Watters also advocated that Fauci be the subject of an “ambush” and he repeated a few times that the result of this rhetorical “ambush” would be that “he’s dead. He’s dead.” And he said it would only take “30 seconds.” It is difficult to dismiss this as just the use of colorful but innocuous language, a tempest in a teapot not just stirred, but conjured by the media.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 22, 2021 - 9:40pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Welcome to the media landscape.
 
The lesson learned from Woodstock and the Brown Acid ...

Acid indigestion ?  Check your source ...
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 22, 2021 - 9:31pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
actual killing...? Okay by me

Or rather:
1. Fair point, but if LWNJs can read between the lines, so can RWNJs.

2. More examples of not possibly being taken out of context and interpreted to imply actual killing. Well, Elmore Leonard probably was and Eminem probably was. Is Watters supposed to be dismissed as just another entertainer? Okay by me, but make sure everyone else knows too.

See how easy that was, and how dishonest?

How does one go about making sure someone else (especially a political rival) doesn't spin something into a sinister plot? Everything's a dog whistle, no one can be trusted to mean what they actually say. Everybody can edit but nobody will read.

Welcome to the media landscape.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 22, 2021 - 5:19pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

If anyone imagines that Watter intended anything other that inciting assassination they are seriously delusional. He knew the forum he was speaking to, and knew how his comments would be received. The man is a goddam terrorist. Period.




Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Dec 22, 2021 - 4:34pm

If anyone imagines that Watter intended anything other that inciting assassination they are seriously delusional. He knew the forum he was speaking to, and knew how his comments would be received. The man is a goddam terrorist. Period.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 22, 2021 - 11:31am

Fox personalities have attacked Fauci over 400 times in 2021 alone
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