jadewahoo wrote: 
  Oh Boo!



I can't believe I read the whole thing!

 jadewahoo wrote: 
That was a long way to go for a joke. Bravo!

c.

 cc_rider wrote:
 
Early Christians were hunted down by the authorities and were likely to be imprisoned. Not, however, for their religious beliefs, but because they were notorious fish smugglers. The toe-drawing in the sand was a means of communicating a Q&A:
First toe drawing: Do you have fish for sale?
Second toe drawing: Yes.
If no toe drawing was forthcoming, the answer was clearly a "No."
All the subsequent parables told by Jesus and his Gang of Twelve were means of transmitting current fishing conditions, what types of fish were to be smuggled during the coming forays, and the prices, which were not under any circumstances to be discussed, nor transactions to take place, within the temples, as these were the domain of someone else's turf. And we all know that surf and turf is not a good combo.

 winter wrote: 
I stand corrected. I knew the Greek acronym was much closer to the concept, I just hadn't bothered to Wiki it. The English version is a far stretch, obviously.

c.

 cc_rider wrote: 
Close.

Your acronym only works for English (Latin doesn't have a word for "the", and I don't believe classical Greek did, either), which is a problem since no one spoke it until centuries later.

 samiyam wrote:  I learned the fish symbol was sort of a word game, an acronym. Roughly translated as I-CH-TH-U-S, Jesus (no 'J' in Roman times) - CHrist - THe - Universal - Savior. It works better using Greek letters, but I'm too lazy to figure out how to type them here. 'Ichthys' is the Greek root of 'fish', so there you go. One suspects there are many tie-ins, but this seems the simplest and easiest explanation: a simple symbol

Additionally: the way I learned it, when speaking with a stranger, a Christian (Xian?) would drag his toe in the sand, apparently absent-mindedly, drawing an arc. A fellow Believer would recognize the arc as more than just boredom, and draw a corresponding arc in the sand to complete the symbol.

c.

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 
That sounds fairly accurate...  after-all, the star is supposedly a very important cosmic event...  Could be that they were already in Bethlahem for the taxing and decided to have the baby there.  The whole "born in a manger" thing smacked of Mithras and the subornation of the pagan cults.

ScottFromWyoming wrote:
that's one i have heard about too....(i once did a lot of research into the subject...like....a lot of years ago....) i like that theory, and it fits with others that speculate a summertime birth.

but there's also the fact that a comet can be visible over a stretch of time, and since the magi visited AFTER the birth, and it took them weeks to travel....it's all still very vague.

 triskele wrote: 
I read somewhere pre-internets that astronomers had calculated that the star the magi followed was a comet, and the actual date was August 3. Maybe that's a little too precise but that's what stuck to my brain cells.

 jadewahoo wrote: 
The rams come down to protect the ewes... it's instinctual... though they stand off, they'll be there.

(The human equivalent is the guy with the camcorder in the green gown makin' an ass of himself in the middle of a very busy room)

 samiyam wrote:  This will hapen the same day that  the cows and bulls home for milking

samiyam wrote: i do believe in the actual person, for sure.  his fundamental teachings remain an important part of  who i am, because they form part of my spiritual foundation. 

and, yes,  there are several theories.  mary was pregnant during the time they were called out to be taxed, so they were traveling while she was still carrying...and who is to say how long they remained in the village before she delivered?  it could take weeks for the taxing process to be completed, one tax payer at a time, standing in long lines, waiting to meet the magistrate.

but, almost all theories claim that it was not midwinter.

 triskele wrote: 
Well... if you follow the myth about being summoned by Caesar to be taxed, then it follows that you would be called together during the spring lambing season... when the ewes and rams come out of the hills to give birth.

That is, if you even believe that Jeshwa was an actual person and not a code name for the leader of the mystery school which was the early Xian church...

I prefer to believe in an actual person "the christ" etc.  But I think that's because I'm kinda sentimental that way.

samiyam wrote:
yeah, i had heard that theory before, too....either way, it is unlikely that he was actually born at mid winter in physical reality.

mithras' birthday, however, was already being celebrated at midwinter, and it was a perfect overlap in order to gain converts out of the followers of mithras.

 samiyam wrote: 
You wrote that??? Very clever!

‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the garage,
Not a creature was stirring, not even the Dodge.
The tires were hung from the workbench with care,
In the hopes that Saint Nicholas would fill them with air.

And I in my white ducks, with a fresh wad of dip,
Settled down in the grease pit for a short midday kip.
When what should awake me but the nastiest sound,
That I leapt from the grease pit with a "Hey" and a bound.

I ran to the chain and I undid the lock,
Yanked on the wheel and opened the dock.
When who should ride in but the crudest of sorts,
On a fine Harley hog with red leather shorts.

He had a greasy old beard, all ratty and gray,
And red pointy boots that had seen better days.
He held in his mouth with the mightiest clench,
A big black pipe which put forth a foul stench.

He couldn't have bathed in many a moon,
For he had an aroma that would make a skunk swoon.
And I thought to myself, as I felt kinda sick,
With the right kinda drugs he'd look just like St. Nick.

He had a beer-belly that shook like bagged lard,
And he pull out the pipe and said, "Look Here Pard!"
"I used to give presents, but I've changed my MO.
Instead of me giving, I'm takin' yer dough!"

He went to the cash box and emptied it clean,
Then gave me a look that was nasty and mean.
"I'm tired of you-all and your "gimme toys" ilk,
So I'm doing for me. Now, where's my cookies and milk?"

He went to my tool box and took my best tools,
"And I've got lots of other things, taken from fools!"
"And don't even think of making a fuss, Bub,
Or I'll send over elves from The North Pole Biker Club."

"If I go to the slammer, they'll come to your house,
Drink all your beer and molest your spouse."
"They'll make so sorry you squealed on my ass,
Then break both your legs and light you with gas."

He jumped on his Harley and gave it a kick,
It fired right up and he burned out a slick.
I could hear him call out as he roared up the street,
"Merry Christmas, you goons, you can all kiss my seat!"

With apologies to Santa,
Stuart Tanner

 triskele wrote: 
It's most likely, based upon the fact that the "fish" was the symbol which the early Xians (who were usually more tuned into the mystery school which was the early Xian church) that Jeshwa was probably born in the time of Pisces...  Seeing as the Xian era was known by the proponents of the mystery schools as the "Age of Pisces" as opposed to the current "Age of Aquarius".

BillnDollarBaby wrote:
the overlapping of festivals and celebrations in order to win converts was a brilliant thing to do. since the early church HAD to gain converts in order to survive, changing the calendar to accommodate said converts was the best way to grow in numbers.

i mean....hasn't research shown that it's possible that jesus christ was actually born in the summer some time?

Painted_Turtle wrote:
sounds like fun!  we just make wassail and stay inside where it's warm, usually.  mostly because i don't have anywhere to have a bonfire!

 Painted_Turtle wrote: 
Whilst my parents were in Singapore there was a year when the end of Ramadan, Xmas and Chinese NY fell on the same week.  Which led to some really really amusing cross-cultural parties (and the photos to prove it!).  I want to have a go at something like that!  Why bother being separatist, just celebrate whatever you like!