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islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:51am

 aflanigan wrote:


Picky,picky.

{#Snooty}
 
Ballot holes are easier to fix that bullet holes, especially in people.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:50am

 cc_rider wrote:

Indeed.
 
http://www.godsarmy.org/Marraige.htm
 
  

Marriage Under Attack!

- more at the link if you can stomach it.

 
The lie of homosexuality attempts to weakened the institution of marriage by trying to dilute and defame its purpose. Trying to change the natural use (Romans 1:26-27) which God intended. One man and one woman in covenant relationship for life. Anyone who escapes this awful lie of homosexuality (I was born that way) is truly blessed. You see, God did not make any mistakes. Submit yourself to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you! (James 4:7).
 
Interesting that he does admit to being "born that way".
Edit: This reads weird, the point I'm brining up is the militaristic language and imagery used in many churches. 
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:49am

 islander wrote:

I still prefer the governance structure with the regularly scheduled elections and orderly transitions of power. 

 

Picky,picky.

{#Snooty}
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:46am

 miamizsun wrote:
both mythologies {#Yes} the difference in the US is that churches don't have militarized goon squads commanded by self anointed god-like rulers....yet. 

You have religious goon squads in the military... {#Mrgreen}
cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:44am

 miamizsun wrote:
both mythologies {#Yes} the difference in the US is that churches don't have militarized goon squads commanded by self anointed god-like rulers....yet.
 
Indeed.

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:42am

 miamizsun wrote:

both mythologies {#Yes} the difference in the US is that churches don't have militarized goon squads commanded by self anointed god-like rulers....yet.
 MILITARIZE

transitive verb
1: to give a military character to
2: to equip with military forces and defenses
3: to adapt for military use


1mil·i·tary adj ˈmi-lə-ˌter-ē
1
a : of or relating to soldiers, arms, or war
b : of or relating to armed forces; especially : of or relating to ground or sometimes ground and air forces as opposed to naval forces

With the exception of "arms", I'd say most churches are fairly militarized. Many refer to themselves as "God(tm)'s army" or "soldiers of the lord", and many are "at war" with evil/heathens/sin...

I still prefer the governance structure with the regularly scheduled elections and orderly transitions of power. 
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:34am

 oldslabsides wrote:


I'll get yelled at for this but for some the state is god.  many don't realize/will never admit that, but it's true nonetheless.

 
both mythologies {#Yes} the difference in the US is that churches don't have militarized goon squads commanded by self anointed god-like rulers....yet.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:26am

 miamizsun wrote:

hundreds of millions murdered (democide) trillions up trillions stolen and forced at gun point to cooperate in their scams.

yeah, i think i'll vote for that.

(talk about indoctrination! and i thought gods were detrimental. seems we can't just leave bad enough alone)
 

I'll get yelled at for this but for some the state is god.  many don't realize/will never admit that, but it's true nonetheless.
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 10, 2011 - 9:12am

 oldslabsides wrote:

fair and equitable government is no less a fallacy/fantasy.

 
hundreds of millions murdered (democide) trillions up trillions stolen and forced at gun point to cooperate in their scams.

yeah, i think i'll vote for that.

(talk about indoctrination! and i thought gods were detrimental. seems we can't just leave bad enough alone)

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 6:10pm

 aflanigan wrote:

Like I said, I understand well that libertarian ideology holds that if we just eliminate all rules and regulations, the free market will supposedly self regulate and make everything hunky dory.  This notion ignores human nature.  Businesses that see an opportunity to game the system regardless of the absence of rules (such as by setting up a trust) will usually not hesitate to do so.  It is in their self interest to take whatever advantage they can obtain.  Free market competition that is fair and equitable is a fallacy IMO.
 
fair and equitable government is no less a fallacy/fantasy.
R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 6:08pm

 aflanigan wrote:
(...) Free market competition that is fair and equitable is a fallacy fantasy IMO. 

{#Mrgreen}

aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
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Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 6:01pm

 miamizsun wrote:

When the current system is run by politicians holding for sale signs, businesses, especially those seeking a legal leg up on their competition, or sweetheart government contracts, will bite. If we level the playing field by eliminating government corruption, then free market competition will enable all businesses to compete which usually ensures the best product at the best price (and a fair shot without political discrimination).
 
Like I said, I understand well that libertarian ideology holds that if we just eliminate all rules and regulations, the free market will supposedly self regulate and make everything hunky dory.  This notion ignores human nature.  Businesses that see an opportunity to game the system regardless of the absence of rules (such as by setting up a trust) will usually not hesitate to do so.  It is in their self interest to take whatever advantage they can obtain.  Free market competition that is fair and equitable is a fallacy IMO.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 5:34pm

 miamizsun wrote:
(...) speaking of war, why do countries invade?
 
To bring democracy of course... {#Mrgreen}
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 4:52pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
Because it is utopian (or possibly dystopian) and insular (if not parochial). A country 'ruled' by anarchism (not necessarily anarchy) would likely be no match for countries with other systems.
 
well you gotta have nukes, cause no country has ever been attack/invaded when they have had nukes.

or if you're swiss, i think.

srsly, there's been a quite a bit of discussion about why countries do or don't invade.

speaking of war, why do countries invade?

regards

R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 4:38pm

Because it is utopian (or possibly dystopian) and insular (if not parochial). A country 'ruled' by anarchism (not necessarily anarchy) would likely be no match for countries with other systems.

miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2011 - 4:29pm

 aflanigan wrote:
It seems to me that this sort of dispute resolution framework suffers from the same fundamental flaw that underlies libertarianism:  A reliance upon the assumption that, no matter how powerful or wealthy, people (or corporations) will behave themselves.  It's a fatally naive assumption IMO.
 
When the current system is run by politicians holding for sale signs, businesses, especially those seeking a legal leg up on their competition, or sweetheart government contracts, will bite. If we level the playing field by eliminating government corruption, then free market competition will enable all businesses to compete which usually ensures the best product at the best price (and a fair shot without political discrimination).

aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 7, 2011 - 12:17pm

 oldslabsides wrote:

Just as the idea that government - if composed of the correct, morally upstanding people - will behave itself.  I don't like one power structure any better than the other.

 

The difference is that a constitutional government such as ours provides a recorded (written) framework within which the behavior of everyone - individuals, corporations, elected officials - can be viewed to see if everyone is playing by the rules.  And it concentrates power (which unfortunately lends itself to corruption) in order to compel compliance when people and corporations don't follow the rules.  But you're right, misbehavior by government officials can lead to great harm.  Our democratic system is indeed a flawed one, but until a better one can be devised, I'll stick with it.
Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 7, 2011 - 10:42am

 aflanigan wrote:


It seems to me that this sort of dispute resolution framework suffers from the same fundamental flaw that underlies libertarianism:  A reliance upon the assumption that, no matter how powerful or wealthy, people (or corporations) will behave themselves.  It's a fatally naive assumption IMO.

 
Just as the idea that government - if composed of the correct, morally upstanding people - will behave itself.  I don't like one power structure any better than the other.
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 7, 2011 - 10:36am

 miamizsun wrote:

As I understand this framework, DROs are hired arbiters by two or more people, who have voluntarily entered into a contract, to settle possible (future) disputes. (I think DROs hire security or collection agents to perform this task if all else fails.) So Stan defaults, Molyneux says DROs are well within their right to remove property by force, per Bob and Stan's endorsement, which could be a easy as towing a vehicle or as difficult as eviction. If you read on (or any of his other stuff) he points toward the preferred method of non-violent incentive - economic ostracization. Stan also realizes that he becomes the aggressor by taking (or refusing to return) someone's property that he didn't pay for. This whole scenario also assumes that there is no appeal which he says is unlikely.

Regards
 

It seems to me that this sort of dispute resolution framework suffers from the same fundamental flaw that underlies libertarianism:  A reliance upon the assumption that, no matter how powerful or wealthy, people (or corporations) will behave themselves.  It's a fatally naive assumption IMO.


kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 4, 2011 - 4:56pm

 cc_rider wrote:
In the abstract, in our complex world, I tend to agree. But boil it down to something very simple, like an argument between neighbors over, say, a fruit tree that hangs over the other's property. They argue about who owns what fruit, but one of the neighbors has a terrible stutter, so it's very difficult for the poor guy to get his point across. So he hires someone to listen to his problem 'offline' when his stuttering is not exacerbated by stress, and then the 'speaker' argues for him.

Of course that's a gross oversimplification (I'm very good at those), but the idea is, sometimes you need somebody to speak for you. Now that our legal system has gotten too complex for anyone to really understand, it's even more important for someone who is familiar with the system (such as it is) to speak for you. Lawyers are one of the many necessary evils of a civilized society, at least one that's as large as ours.

 
Actually its a great example.

Lawyers are sometimes called paid advocates, as well as many other things, but this is one of the nicer ones.

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