Having the usual plague of random thoughts, I came up a couple examples of how the music can be much more important than the lyrics no matter how deep or profound.
Dylan.
Hendrix' treatment of All Along The Watchtower and Harrison's treatment of If Not For You (which I'm playing right now and gave me this thought)
The music itself changes the songs completely from Dylan's original versions. They are no longer just another Dylan song and now stand up all by themselves (as timeless singles) based upon the new supporting music.
Just wanted to put this down while I was thinking it.
Yeah, that's a good point. There are some recording artists who may have good lyrics, but I just can't listen to them. One annoying (to me) genre is the "acoustic pop" genre - a style personified by people like Jack Johnson and Jason Mraz among others. You may not be familiar with them but if you check out a video or two from them, you'll know what I mean - saccharine, solo-acoustic-guitar ditties, seemingly written to eventually be used in TV commercials.
Yeah. I got SirD's point though. If a song has a good melody, nice instrumentation, good hooks, etc. but has dubious or corny lyrics, I could still listen to the song for its positive aspects. But if a song is too dull or poorly played, I would be less prone to listen to it, even if it did have very good lyrics. Ultimately, and historically, it's the actual music which is the appeal, not the poetry - but lyrics are often more than just adornments to me.
Having the usual plague of random thoughts, I came up a couple examples of how the music can be much more important than the lyrics no matter how deep or profound.
Dylan.
Hendrix' treatment of All Along The Watchtower and Harrison's treatment of If Not For You (which I'm playing right now and gave me this thought)
The music itself changes the songs completely from Dylan's original versions. They are no longer just another Dylan song and now stand up all by themselves (as timeless singles) based upon the new supporting music.
Just wanted to put this down while I was thinking it.
I would agree. Good lyrics enhance a song. They make me ponder.
Lyrics matter. If not, all music would be instrumentals.
Yeah. I got SirD's point though. If a song has a good melody, nice instrumentation, good hooks, etc. but has dubious or corny lyrics, I could still listen to the song for its positive aspects. But if a song is too dull or poorly played, I would be less prone to listen to it, even if it did have very good lyrics. Ultimately, and historically, it's the actual music which is the appeal, not the poetry - but lyrics are often more than just adornments to me.
To me the lyrics are equally as important as the music - at least in most rock, pop, or folk music. What makes artists like Tom Waits, John Prine, Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, and others so great, is primarily their lyrics. A lot of the music in the songs from those artists is often rudimentary, simply-structured songs - composed as vessels for their profound lyrics. Even other artists, like the Stones or Kinks made released songs which were musically wonderful, but also greatly improved by having deeper lyrics than most other pop/rock artists had released. Jazz music can be different - mainly because much of it is instrumental, or had kind of perfunctory lyrics - often added by lyricists, sometimes long after the song had been written. Bossa nova and samba music is often beautiful and complex, and usually has lyrics, but I don't speak Brazilian Portuguese, so the lyrics just carry the melody for me. Maybe being a musician and a songwriter forms my opinion - maybe not...
Sadly I never learned to play any instruments. I play the radio is what I say when asked the question.
It is kinda the way I always approached music or how it approached me. It now more applies to brand new to me music. RP is pretty much the only place I have heard new music since landing here some 20 years ago. There isn't much released since 2010 that I can think of that makes me want to buy it. The music has to draw me in first before I start considering the rest. I am a sucker for a good hook and a chorus to match. Lyrics like SirD mentioned are the frosting on the cake for me, too. I was as much into folk rock in the 60's as garage band music and psychedelia. I appreciated Dylan, Simon, Ochs and Mitchell's lyrics out of the gate. And through repetition via airplay the music and lyrics were indelibly burned into my brain. What turned my head when I first heard The Doors was Krieger's delicious slidy guitar licks. Totally mind altering, never heard any playing like that before, The Byrds then Hendrix and Clapton's noodling with Cream with his very psychedelic licks in Dance The Night Away. Traffic was also in that mix. Winwood is a very underrated guitar player and plays a mean keyboard. And early Dave Mason. Then Walsh and The James Gang followed by the Allman Bros. Well played E tuned (as I have come to learn) slide guitars is my weakness. Even though I first heard Floyd in 1968 they did not really become a primary listening band until Umma Gumma, then Meddle and Animals came along. Gilmour's growth fed me well. The Kink's have their own special place. Their music and Davies lyrics are totally sublime and poignant at the same time. He articulated the Post WW II angst much better than Waters or even Townshend did. Arthur is going to be put on the turntable again soon. Honourable mention to Steve Miller and The Band. Chest Fever is one of my favorite songs, period. The organ is the song there. Can't leave out Bruce either for music and lyrics that are equally as important.
Going back and listening to my vinyl again has allowed me to identify these sounds that actually affect my physical senses. There are certain riffs and progressions that trigger a sensation in my head similar to being pleasantly stoned, even though I am not. Truly ear candy. Was it always like that ? Hell if I know, cuz I was likely too stoned already at the time and the music only fed those feelings more.
My highlites of the 90's for brand new music were Garbage and Alice In Chain out of all of it. It was their hooky new sound that got my attention, the vocals were unique and the lyrics followed. Nothing this century has really tripped my trigger that I can think of to mention in this post without thinking too hard.
Lastly, as I go through my vinyl with this new cart, I'm finding just how many more lyrics I misheard or just plain never heard before like there's a bathroom on the right ... So much of my listening was done while driving. Bit of a very pleasant eye opener.
Listening to The Road To Hell as I write this reminds me that my favorite combination of instruments is organ and slide guitar. It all started way back when with Krieger and Manzarek. Does my collection reveal or confirm what I wrote ? Take a look, there is only about a third of what I have listed there. Though it does not include my CD collection which is around a 1,000 plus. They are all long ago ripped and boxed.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Sep 1, 2024 - 7:19pm
Proclivities wrote:
To me the lyrics are equally as important as the music - at least in most rock, pop, or folk music. What makes artists like Tom Waits, John Prine, Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, and others so great, is primarily their lyrics. A lot of the music in the songs from those artists is often rudimentary, simply-structured songs - composed as vessels for their profound lyrics. Even other artists, like the Stones or Kinks made released songs which were musically wonderful, but also greatly improved by having deeper lyrics than most other pop/rock artists had released.
Jazz music can be different - mainly because much of it is instrumental, or had kind of perfunctory lyrics - often added by lyricists, sometimes long after the song had been written. Bossa nova and samba music is often beautiful and complex, and usually has lyrics, but I don't speak Brazilian Portuguese, so the lyrics just carry the melody for me.
Maybe being a musician and a songwriter forms my opinion - maybe not...
I would agree. Good lyrics enhance a song. They make me ponder.
Lyrics matter. If not, all music would be instrumentals.
To me the lyrics are equally as important as the music - at least in most rock, pop, or folk music. What makes artists like Tom Waits, John Prine, Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, and others so great, is primarily their lyrics. A lot of the music in the songs from those artists is often rudimentary, simply-structured songs - composed as vessels for their profound lyrics. Even other artists, like the Stones or Kinks made released songs which were musically wonderful, but also greatly improved by having deeper lyrics than most other pop/rock artists had released.
Jazz music can be different - mainly because much of it is instrumental, or had kind of perfunctory lyrics - often added by lyricists, sometimes long after the song had been written. Bossa nova and samba music is often beautiful and complex, and usually has lyrics, but I don't speak Brazilian Portuguese, so the lyrics just carry the melody for me.
Maybe being a musician and a songwriter forms my opinion - maybe not...
As far as this topic, meh lyrics are overrated. If I like the music, don't care about the lyrics and if I hate the music, good lyrics will not save it. Well written lyrics are nothing but the cherry on the top of a good song or buried in bad music I don't want to listen to anyway.
Some of the records I grew to love were quite annoying on first take. Relayer is a prime example. And then there's this piece of genius...
(Hint: crank it UP and sit back)
As far as this topic, meh lyrics are overrated. If I like the music, don't care about the lyrics and if I hate the music, good lyrics will not save it. Well written lyrics are nothing but the cherry on the top of a good song or buried in bad music I don't want to listen to anyway.
Location: Really deep in the heart of South California Gender:
Posted:
Apr 28, 2021 - 12:56pm
sirdroseph wrote:
As far as this topic, meh lyrics are overrated. If I like the music, don't care about the lyrics and if I hate the music, good lyrics will not save it.
Well written lyrics are nothing but the cherry on the top of a good song or buried in bad music I don't want to listen to anyway.
Count your blessings. I remember when Enya was sort of cool to listen to, and when she got popular, she wrote more songs in English. Oh, god, those lyrics are horrible. Are the Irish lyrics that bad? I'll have to assume they are.Â
Â
Yes, I would assume so. lol
As far as this topic, meh lyrics are overrated. If I like the music, don't care about the lyrics and if I hate the music, good lyrics will not save it.
Well written lyrics are nothing but the cherry on the top of a good song or buried in bad music I don't want to listen to anyway.
