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jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 15, 2009 - 7:59am




MsJudi

MsJudi Avatar

Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 7:14am

 brandog wrote:

I think the real consipiracy is that the administration leaked the rumor, created the furor, and all those howling oldsters who stress out, freak out, and DIE are, well, the targets.
 
You conspiracy theorists are just kaaaa-razeeee! {#Lol}
(former member)

(former member) Avatar



Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 7:02am

 MsJudi wrote:

False ‘Death Panel’ Rumor Has Some Familiar Roots


Not that proof it's a lie will stop the wackos from insisting that there will be "death panels". {#Rolleyes}

 
I think the real consipiracy is that the administration leaked the rumor, created the furor, and all those howling oldsters who stress out, freak out, and DIE are, well, the targets.

MsJudi

MsJudi Avatar

Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 5:38am

False ‘Death Panel’ Rumor Has Some Familiar Roots


Not that proof it's a lie will stop the wackos from insisting that there will be "death panels". {#Rolleyes}
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 7:56am

 owld_skipper wrote:


Say, how are those private armed militias in Iraq and Afghanistan doing? Do we really want to bring that to America?
 
These people suffer from such fear! Whether it is because there is a black man in the WH, whether they feel the loss of their power, or whether they are just fearful that they will lose everything they have, they are scared to death, and endangering the rest of us in the process.

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 7:47am

Officials See Rise In Militia Groups Across US

EILEEN SULLIVAN | 08/12/09 03:50 AM | AP

WASHINGTON — Militia groups with gripes against the government are regrouping across the country and could grow rapidly, according to an organization that tracks such trends.

The stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise, the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says. Conspiracy theories about a secret Mexican plan to reclaim the Southwest are also growing amid the public debate about illegal immigration.

Bart McEntire, a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told SPLC researchers that this is the most growth he's seen in more than a decade.

"All it's lacking is a spark," McEntire said in the report.

It's reminiscent of what was seen in the 1990s – right-wing militias, people ideologically against paying taxes and so-called "sovereign citizens" are popping up in large numbers, according to the report to be released Wednesday. The SPLC is a nonprofit civil rights group that, among other activities, investigates hate groups.

Last October, someone from the Ohio Militia posted a recruiting video on YouTube, billed as a "wake-up call" for America. It's been viewed more than 60,000 times.

"Things are bad, things are real bad, and it's going to be a lot worse," said the man on the video, who did not give his name. "Our country is in peril."

The man is holding an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle, and he encourages viewers to buy one.

While anti-government sentiment has been on the rise over the last two years, there aren't as many threats and violent acts at this point as there were in the 1990s, according to the report. That movement bore the likes of Timothy McVeigh, who in 1995 blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City and killed 168 people.

But McEntire fears it's only a matter of time.

These militias are concentrated in the Midwest, Pacific Northwest and the Deep South, according to Mark Potok, an SPLC staff director who co-wrote the report. Recruiting videos and other outreach on the Internet are on the rise, he said, and researchers from his center found at least 50 new groups in the last few months.

The militia movement of the 1990s gained traction with growing concerns about gun control, environmental laws and anything perceived as liberal government meddling.

The spark for that movement came in 1992 with an FBI standoff with white separatist Randall Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. Weaver's wife and son were killed by an FBI sniper. And in 1993, a 52-day standoff between federal agents and the Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, resulted in nearly 80 deaths. These events rallied more people who became convinced that the government would murder its own citizens to promote its liberal agenda.

Now officials are seeing a new generation of activists, according to the report. The law center spotlights Edward Koernke, a Michigan man who hosts an Internet radio show about militias. His father, Mark, was a major figure in the 1990s militia movement and served six years in prison for charges including assaulting police.

Last year, officials warned about an increase in activity from militias in a five-year threat projection by the Homeland Security Department.

"White supremacists and militias are more violent and thus more likely to conduct mass-casualty attacks on the scale of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing," the threat projection said.

A series of domestic terrorism incidents over the past year have not been directly tied to organized militias, but the rhetoric behind some of the crimes are similar with that of the militia movement. For instance, the man charged with the April killings of three Pittsburgh police officers posted some of his views online. Richard Andrew Poplawski wrote that U.S. troops could be used against American citizens, and he thinks a gun ban could be coming.

The FBI's assistant director for counterterrorism, Michael Heimbach, said that law enforcement officials need to identify people who go beyond hateful rhetoric and decide to commit violent acts and crimes. Heimbach said one of the bigger challenges is identifying the lone-wolf offenders.

One alleged example of a lone-wolf offender is the 88-year-old man charged in the June shooting death of a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington.




kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 7, 2009 - 4:55pm

 hippiechick wrote:
Out of Sarah Palin's mouth:

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we're saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president's health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, "Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth." Let's stop and think and make our voices heard before it's too late.



  
'A government big enough to give you everything you want, 
is strong enough to take everything you have.' G Ford


arsenault

arsenault Avatar

Location: long beach cali USandA
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 7, 2009 - 4:20pm

 buzz wrote:

perhaps they borrowed Obama's copy of Rules For Radicals.

 
{#Lol}


hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 7, 2009 - 4:00pm

Out of Sarah Palin's mouth:

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we're saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president's health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, "Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth." Let's stop and think and make our voices heard before it's too late.


buzz

buzz Avatar

Location: up the boohai


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 8:19am

 ptooey wrote:


 
okay, im convinced 
buzz

buzz Avatar

Location: up the boohai


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 8:18am

 hippiechick wrote:

Right-Wing Harassment Strategy Against Dems Detailed In Memo: ‘Yell,’ ‘Stand Up And Shout Out,’ ‘Rattle Him’

This morning, Politico reported that Democratic members of Congress are increasingly being harassed by “angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior” at local town halls. For example, in one incident, right-wing protesters surrounded Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY) and forced police officers to have to escort him to his car for safety.

This growing phenomenon is often marked by violence and absurdity. Recently, right-wing demonstrators hung Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) in effigy outside of his office. Missing from the reporting of these stories is the fact that much of these protests are coordinated by public relations firms and lobbyists who have a stake in opposing President Obama’s reforms.

The lobbyist-run groups Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, which orchestrated the anti-Obama tea parties earlier this year, are now pursuing an aggressive strategy to create an image of mass public opposition to health care and clean energy reform. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website Tea Party Patriots, details how members should be infiltrating town halls and harassing Democratic members of Congress:

Tea Bagger Memo

– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”

– Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”

The memo above also resembles the talking points being distributed by FreedomWorks for pushing an anti-health reform assault all summer. Patients United, a front group maintained by Americans for Prosperity, is currently busing people all over the country for more protests against Democratic members. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), chairman of the NRCC, has endorsed the strategy, telling the Politico the days of civil town halls are now “over.”

Meanwhile, AHIP, the trade group and lobbying juggernaut representing the health insurance industry is sending staffers to monitor town halls and other right-wing front groups are stepping up their ad campaign to smear reform efforts. The strategy for defeating reform — recently outlined by an influential lobbyist to the Hill newspaper as “delay” then “kill” — is becoming apparent. By delaying a vote until after the August recess, lobbyists are now seizing upon recess town halls as opportunities to ambush lawmakers and fool them into believing there is wide opposition to reform.


 
perhaps they borrowed Obama's copy of Rules For Radicals.
ptooey

ptooey Avatar

Location: right behind you. no, over there.
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 8:16am

 buzz wrote:

prove it

 


hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 8:09am

 buzz wrote:

prove it

 

Right-Wing Harassment Strategy Against Dems Detailed In Memo: ‘Yell,’ ‘Stand Up And Shout Out,’ ‘Rattle Him’

This morning, Politico reported that Democratic members of Congress are increasingly being harassed by “angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior” at local town halls. For example, in one incident, right-wing protesters surrounded Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY) and forced police officers to have to escort him to his car for safety.

This growing phenomenon is often marked by violence and absurdity. Recently, right-wing demonstrators hung Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) in effigy outside of his office. Missing from the reporting of these stories is the fact that much of these protests are coordinated by public relations firms and lobbyists who have a stake in opposing President Obama’s reforms.

The lobbyist-run groups Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, which orchestrated the anti-Obama tea parties earlier this year, are now pursuing an aggressive strategy to create an image of mass public opposition to health care and clean energy reform. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website Tea Party Patriots, details how members should be infiltrating town halls and harassing Democratic members of Congress:

Tea Bagger Memo

– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”

– Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”

The memo above also resembles the talking points being distributed by FreedomWorks for pushing an anti-health reform assault all summer. Patients United, a front group maintained by Americans for Prosperity, is currently busing people all over the country for more protests against Democratic members. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), chairman of the NRCC, has endorsed the strategy, telling the Politico the days of civil town halls are now “over.”

Meanwhile, AHIP, the trade group and lobbying juggernaut representing the health insurance industry is sending staffers to monitor town halls and other right-wing front groups are stepping up their ad campaign to smear reform efforts. The strategy for defeating reform — recently outlined by an influential lobbyist to the Hill newspaper as “delay” then “kill” — is becoming apparent. By delaying a vote until after the August recess, lobbyists are now seizing upon recess town halls as opportunities to ambush lawmakers and fool them into believing there is wide opposition to reform.



buzz

buzz Avatar

Location: up the boohai


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 7:48am

 hippiechick wrote:
You know those people that cause a stir at every town hall meeting and rally lately? They are shills, plants, recruited by a couple of high level orgs, one being an insurance company and one being a wealthy rightwingnut
 
prove it
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 5, 2009 - 7:46am

You know those people that cause a stir at every town hall meeting and rally lately? They are shills, plants, recruited by a couple of high level orgs, one being an insurance company and one being a wealthy rightwingnut
jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 2, 2009 - 10:51pm


It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinder.' - Aldous Huxley

Atman

Atman Avatar

Location: Sandpoint, ID
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 2, 2009 - 10:36pm

 arsenault wrote:

with respect..chomsky never puts himself in a debate because he is so full of shit and never wants to be called on it.
he will only appear in a venue where he won't be challenged. usually a rambling incoherent coma inducing monotone monologue.
most people see through the bs when they enter the real world after college, or do any rudimentary self education on politics and culture.

and really we should discuss chomsky under leftwingnutZ

he is a fine linguist though. 

 
nice   {#Puke}

arsenault

arsenault Avatar

Location: long beach cali USandA
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 2, 2009 - 10:31pm

 Atman wrote:

Years ago I saw Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky, who in my opinion has the most to say about all of this. So, it's not news at all, only a confirmation. In fact, Chomsky is one of those folks who is NEVER on any of the MSM shows. Cause he kicks everybody's ass when it comes to the truth. His whole deal is that we have a corporatist government, not a social democracy. That is, our votes are based on how much money is lined up for them. A social democracy is where each vote has equal power. Unfortunately, every single person has to wage a campaign to figure out what's true. Corporate forces make sure it's harder and harder to tell the truth, and then use all their money to manipulate people's opinions based on what bullshitake works.

The forces lined up against just health care are exactly working to the purpose of money, not health care. They are making fearful people think they are going to be left out. And it is the biggest lie there is right now.
 
with respect..chomsky never puts himself in a debate because he is so full of shit and never wants to be called on it.
he will only appear in a venue where he won't be challenged. usually a rambling incoherent coma inducing monotone monologue.
most people see through the bs when they enter the real world after college, or do any rudimentary self education on politics and culture.

and really we should discuss chomsky under leftwingnutZ

he is a fine linguist though. 
Atman

Atman Avatar

Location: Sandpoint, ID
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 2, 2009 - 10:19pm

 kurtster wrote:

So is this news to you or a confirmation of your own thoughts ?

Ain't no surprise to me.

The Fourth Estate is no longer.  I pronounced it dead when I raised the point that rather than investigate Bernie Madoff, Mort Zuckerman of the U S News and World Report and The New York Daily News chose to keep it to himself and invest.  So welcome to the party.  You must now view more news than ever from ALL sources to be able to cull some sort of sense of what is going on.  Which makes places like these where people post all kinds of links that are from obscure sources more valuable.

FWIW: Last night on C2C I heard a prediction of a Bank Holiday coming in the Fall.  Also, support HR 1207 by calling your Representives.  It is the Bill that calls for an audit of the Federal Reserve.  It is being held in committee by Frank and Pelosi.  They are blocking its vote and preventing it from getting to the floor.  This bill has bi partisan sponsorship of over 280 members of the House and 20 sponsors in the Senate.

HR 1207

 
Years ago I saw Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky, who in my opinion has the most to say about all of this. So, it's not news at all, only a confirmation. In fact, Chomsky is one of those folks who is NEVER on any of the MSM shows. Cause he kicks everybody's ass when it comes to the truth. His whole deal is that we have a corporatist government, not a social democracy. That is, our votes are based on how much money is lined up for them. A social democracy is where each vote has equal power. Unfortunately, every single person has to wage a campaign to figure out what's true. Corporate forces make sure it's harder and harder to tell the truth, and then use all their money to manipulate people's opinions based on what bullshitake works.

The forces lined up against just health care are exactly working to the purpose of money, not health care. They are making fearful people think they are going to be left out. And it is the biggest lie there is right now.

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