Radio Paradise

I heard last night NPR talking about a "gang of 6"... 3 dems and 3 repubs who have been meeting and came up with a plan that both sides are excited about.

Any more word on this?

Still in the talking stage. Hard details will not be able to be worked out in time to vote and pass before the August 2 deadline. Look for it to be another last minute deal where we have to pass it to find out what is in it.

We can't be doing things like this anymore.

cc_rider

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:58am
rosedraws wrote: I heard last night NPR talking about a "gang of 6"... 3 dems and 3 repubs who have been meeting and came up with a plan that both sides are excited about. Any more word on this? CNN seems to be indicating they are back, working on a plan. One that includes lots of cuts, and some increased revenues also. Who knows? They're all just rearranging the deck chairs anyway...

rosedraws

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:56am
I heard last night NPR talking about a "gang of 6"... 3 dems and 3 repubs who have been meeting and came up with a plan that both sides are excited about. Any more word on this?

winter

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Location: in exile, as always
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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:54am
ptooey wrote: Scones with neither currants nor butter. Hardly seems sporting.

steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth

Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:53am

At the heart of this particular problem (debt ceiling, reducing deficit, balancing budget), as with so many other issues, is the adherence to absolutism and political/ideological lockstepping.

This, of course, is the exact opposite of the kind of approach that leads to problem-solving. Entrenched positions lead to entrenchment. Not much surprise there.

One example: The embryonic "plan" to cut $4 trillion from the deficit included tax increases. That was it for many in the House. No tax increases. Let's go to $2 trillion without the tax increases.

So, we have an ideological standoff (and there are others, I know).

We're talking about incentives or disincentives for economic growth. There are those who are absolutely convinced that government spending designed to spur the economy will not work, and will only add to the deficit with nothing to show for it. And vice versa. There are those who are absolutely convinced that tax cuts will spur the economy, and that tax increases of any sort will tie an anchor around the ankle of any growth. And vice versa.

This appears to me to be a golden opportunity to reduce the deficit by trillions. The raising of the debt ceiling is the impetus; it became leverage for negotiations, and it has been working in that plans are being proposed. But then the door slams shut because of absolute, ideological positions.

The issue of raising the debt ceiling this one time, on or before August 2, really is somewhat of a Trojan horse. Stopping it at this precise moment would be a Pyrrhic victory.

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:30am
winter wrote: And then what? PIE and BACON for all!

ptooey

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:27am
winter wrote: And then what? Scones with neither currants nor butter.

winter

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Location: in exile, as always
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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:18am
oldslabsides wrote: Nothing is going to change until enough of the populace realizes that it's all a dog & pony show and stop playing the game. And then what?

cc_rider

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 9:16am
miamizsun wrote: lot of drama and senseless posturing on the hill Shocked. I am shocked.

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 8:49am
miamizsun wrote: lot of drama and senseless posturing on the hill Nothing is going to change until enough of the populace realizes that it's all a dog & pony show and stop playing the game.

miamizsun

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 8:48am
lot of drama and senseless posturing on the hill

sirdroseph

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 4:58am

kurtster wrote:

As some may or may not know, Rep. Peter King (R) NY is about to reconvene his committee hearings on the radicalization of Islam in America.

I support his efforts to keep talking about this topic. It is worth investigating. Obama and Napolitano are even reported to be helping his efforts. Napolitano is starting an investigation of radicalization in our prison system.

What is best is that King has properly expressed just what it is and how we should be approaching this discussion. King has likened the Jihadists to the Mafia and says that it should be investigated with this approach in mind. Its not about Italians, its about a certain small group of criminals who happen to be Italian. We have survived investigating the Mafia as a Nation. If we realise that Jihad is being investigated in the same manner, then maybe we can get the ball rolling and start talking realistically about this legitimate problem, without all the hyperbole about xenophobia and other bs.

Cheers to Mr. King.

Did he speak to the radicalization of Christianity in America? I would like an investigation on that as well. I submit that even though the Evangelicals are not as violent (they do not need to be......yet) they are just as dangerous because they are actually already in power in the House and Senate. As far as I know, there are no radical Islamists in Congress.

sirdroseph

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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 4:51am

I found this on an question; answer forum. Thought it was appropriate, have been thinking the same thing, but this pretty much sums it up:

How many times has the ceiling been raised? Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service. Ten of those times have occurred since 2001.

*Edit* Isn't it interesting that since 2001 the debt ceiling was raised 10 times yet we never heard about it? There were no Republican walk outs during the debate, no TEA party rallies, nothing, not a peep. In fact over the last 30 years as the national debt continued to rise under mostly Republican control, we never heard anything about the rising debt, yet now that there is a democrat in office, it's their greatest concern.

My addendum: I share the concern of the Republicans over the debt as well, but please do not treat this as a "new" scenario. {#Rolleyes}

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
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Posted: Jul 20, 2011 - 4:40am

dmax wrote:

We did it for the previous administration repeatedly. Raising the ceiling isn't that big a deal.

Trying to balance the budget while we're in such horrible straits is certain to finish off what Bush began: the collapse of our economy.

Private businesses can't get a leg up because consumers can't spend. They can't even maintain their homes.
The government, if it were willing to employ citizens to rebuild infrastructure, helps the country return to greatness and puts money in pockets - so it can be spent at private businesses and they can start to recover.

Refuse to get money into the economy, refuse to tax the wealthy equally with the poor and middle class, and the "world ends" from the bottom up.

Balancing the budget in the context of CC&B is many years from now. It has to be done.

Put money in infrastructure, we tried that already. Heck, we have a 3 mile stretch of road being widened here that began the spring of 2009 complete with the $10K signs at both ends and its still not done and parts of it have had to be redone because it sat idle too long in between steps. The signs quietly disappeared last winter. It was shovel ready when it began.

I'll spare the snarky comments about shovel ready.

Steve Wynn (an Obama supporter and donor in 2008) had a lot to say about the uncertainty fostered by Obama. He is sitting on projects that would involve 10,000 new jobs, that would spark 20,000 additional jobs in a chain effect.

(former member)

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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 - 9:27pm

kurtster wrote:

Remember, the world ends according to Obama if we don't give him more money by August 2nd.

kurtster

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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 - 9:10pm

dmax wrote:

You have to change people's perceptions of the many GOP folks who exhibit hefty clouds of crazy. You know it's true, and I'm sure it's frustrating.
To be so against Obama as well as the Democrats, regardless of what progress they may/may not make - it leaves you with Santorum and Bachmann (and Palin) and a lot of other people that I, were I a Republican, would be sorry to have in my corner.

It's like throwing a party and there's those guys in the corner that are really disturbing and inappropriate, but they're kinda family, and you just can't get them to leave. So you have to act like you don't mind that they're there but you wish they'd be a little more quiet. And then someone says something to you about them and you feel like you have to take up for them, since they're family. But it leaves a bad taste in your mouth but what can you do? Well, you try to spin it and wait for it to pass.

Sorry. It sounds like a difficult position to be in.

Not an unreasonable analogy.

But I'm focusing on the debt issue in here.

Howze it gonna look if C, C and B makes it through the Senate and Obama vetoes it, vetoing balancing the budget ?

Its unlikely that it will pass the Senate, but it is the only thing we have in writing to vote on as August 2nd draws near.

Remember, the world ends according to Obama if we don't give him more money by August 2nd.

Didn't someone named Humbard try that awhile ago ?

and somewhere I remember someone saying unemployment will go up if you don't give me money.

and wasn't it Standard and Poors who gave the housing derivitives AAA ratings up until the day they crashed ?

I am so confused.

Ok, let's do what McConnel wants, roll over, play dead and give him the money.

Better safe than sorry.

Open bar, on the house, eat, drink and be merry !!!

(former member)

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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 - 6:56pm

kurtster wrote:

So trying to balance the budget is crazy ?

I rest my case ...

kurtster

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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 - 6:48pm
dmax wrote: No one's blameless, but the GOP are the ones looking that they can't control their crazy. Otherwise, you wouldn't be having to try to spin it differently. So trying to balance the budget is crazy ? I rest my case ...

(former member)

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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 - 6:25pm
kurtster wrote: So why is everyone saying Republicans are not trying to do anything about the debt and budget ? That the Republicans are the ones who are insisting on default, sheesh ... No one's blameless, but the GOP are the ones looking that they can't control their crazy. Otherwise, you wouldn't be having to try to spin it differently.

kurtster

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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 - 6:19pm

I just heard Rep. Paul Ryan (R) Wi state that the Senate hasn't passed a Budget in 810 days.

Even if he is off a couple of weeks, WTF ?

So far the Republican House has passed a Budget for 2012, proposed a debt reduction plan in late winter and passed a debt reduction plan (today). Even Senator McConnel (R) Ky has come up with a plan, terrible as it is.

What has the other side said except for gimme more money ?

So why is everyone saying Republicans are not trying to do anything about the debt and budget ?

That the Republicans are the ones who are insisting on default, sheesh ...

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