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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Congress Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
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islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 11:17pm

 Mugro wrote:
< some interesting stuff> and then added:
I know that all of you here at RP are quite liberal and quite convinced that Obamacare is the absolute need of the country. That's fine. But you should know that there are a LOT of people that don't agree with you. They are all human beings and all are entitled to their opinion. I am sure that some of them are stupid rednecks, but then again, some of them are quite intelligent.

I know that this post will anger quite a few  of you. I don't mean to anger anyone. Don't take this personally, and please don't attack me personally, for you'll only hurt yourself. I have heard it all here at RP, so whatever you want to say to me personally won't be very original.


What I am hoping is that you will take this post for what it was intended for: a think piece. Think about it and perhaps see the debate in a different way. You are still entitled to your final opinion, but perhaps an open minded person might want to see and hear some different opinions, right?

If not, then so be it.

 
I think you could have left out the woe is me bit there and had the same impact.

Yes,we are very divided. No, piling on more debt isn't the best idea. maybe we need to rethink our spending overall, not just infrastructure and health care. If you list countries by military expenditures, we spend more money on our military than the next 14 countries combined. We could transfer enough to cover the bloated giveaway to industry that is health care insurance reform and still spend more than the next 12 countries combined. We could probably make a dent on infrastructure and still outspend the rest of the top 10 - and a bunch of those guys are our allies.

I think we do need to frame the debate in a different way  - let's take a look at our real sacred cows and maybe think about a bbq to feed a few people. In this particular case, guns are killing people, but it's with dollars instead of bullets.

AliGator

AliGator Avatar



Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 11:14pm

 dmax wrote:

Government is not the answer to all health care concerns. It is reasonable to let government be one of the options, though, just like it's provided the VA or Medicare option for those who warrant it. Why forbid it, especially when it's not a replacement for the private pay, but simply another choice? Why would we campaign against choice in a free market?

The current system is broken. The result of that busted system is not as benign as "my widget is rusted" - where you could contend that the free market will eventually lead to a fix - but instead a free market that is financially rewarded for letting people get sick, or charging them outlandish sums when they need care - leads to death and bankruptcy on a national level. The government that doesn't intervene in that problem is the evil one.

 


You're on a horse.


(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 10:42pm

 Mugro wrote:
Dmax said: "The only reasons that this generates anger are out of misunderstanding, superstition, politics, and racism."

Does this come straight out of thin air or perhaps there is is reason for this reaction? Government seems to think it can solve everything, and then it takes over the problem, only to abandon the solution once it has seemed to move its attention elsewhere.

Subways and roads are not something that Congressmen want to pay attention to. Therefore they languish. Once government health care is a reality, who is to know that it will not languish?

Sadly, government is NOT the answer to all societal problems.

Racism is never acceptable. Skepticism of "government remedy" is not only acceptable but a necessity in a democratic republic.
 
Government is not the answer to all health care concerns. It is reasonable to let government be one of the options, though, just like it's provided the VA or Medicare option for those who warrant it. Why forbid it, especially when it's not a replacement for the private pay, but simply another choice? Why would we campaign against choice in a free market?

The current system is broken. The result of that busted system is not as benign as "my widget is rusted" - where you could contend that the free market will eventually lead to a fix - but instead a free market that is financially rewarded for letting people get sick, or charging them outlandish sums when they need care - leads to death and bankruptcy on a national level. The government that doesn't intervene in that problem is the evil one.


Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: Grand Duchy of Luxembourg


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 10:24pm

Dmax said: "The only reasons that this generates anger are out of misunderstanding, superstition, politics, and racism."

Does this come straight out of thin air or perhaps there is is reason for this reaction? Government seems to think it can solve everything, and then it takes over the problem, only to abandon the solution once it has seemed to move its attention elsewhere.

Subways and roads are not something that Congressmen want to pay attention to. Therefore they languish. Once government health care is a reality, who is to know that it will not languish?

Sadly, government is NOT the answer to all societal problems.

Racism is never acceptable. Skepticism of "government remedy" is not only acceptable but a necessity in a democratic republic.

(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 10:22pm

 AliGator wrote:

Thank you for being so concise and matter-of-fact about this.
 
Except that I moved my post to "health care" where it belonged...... (but thanks)
AliGator

AliGator Avatar



Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 10:17pm

 dmax wrote:
It's so weird how this has been framed. No one is eliminating private pay health care, and there is no government health care (except the lauded VA system and Medicare). 

Are people really so happy with the current state of health care costs that they don't want intervention to protect them from corporate cost escalation? Did the Aetna (and many more) cost increase seem reasonable and acceptable to people? That's where the anger should be. A health care system that is financially killing this country (and is not predicated on wellness, but on reimbursing for illness).

The government is not taking over private pay health care, simply preventing it from bankrupting us all.

It's like you having the choice of UPS and FedEx and now there's another choice: the Post Office. It's like Stanford and Harvard and now you have the choice of a public college as well.

The only reasons that this generates anger are out of misunderstanding, superstition, politics, and racism.

 
Thank you for being so concise and matter-of-fact about this.

AliGator

AliGator Avatar



Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 10:08pm

 Mugro wrote:

It's nearly bankrupt. There is a lot of debate as to how to deal with the problem. I was really shocked to see how bad it had gotten in the 20 years since I was first aware of it.

I know that a lot of people will read what I have written and say: "Well, health care is more important than subways!" Yes, it is. But the point that I am making is that we as a society are not holding our commitments to the public concerns that we have already committed to and that is alarming. Back home in Massachusetts, we have 98% of the populace signed up for health care under the recent initiative. However, we have roads and bridges that were built 50 or 100 years ago that are deteriorated to the point of condemnation and we have not done much to remedy that fact. So, I may have health care but no way to get to the place where health care is given because the bridge is out and the road is not plowed or paved and there is no public transportation. Progress?

Health care is a sexy political topic right now. Too bad roads and bridges and jobs will never be so sexy. We need them too.
 
Gahhh, we totally need roads and bridges, and dare I say, trains and other such forms of transportation? We also need health care reform.

I don't know...it seems like it's always Band-Aids™ that are applied to problems here. I'm not saying other countries don't slap on Band-Aids, but sheesh. There's a LOT of short-sightedness in politics*.


*No, I am not just now realizing this.


Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: Grand Duchy of Luxembourg


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 9:55pm

 AliGator wrote:

Wow, I'm just surprised at the state of the metro. I was in the area in June of 2006 or 2007, and I rode a clean, modern comfortable metro between my cousin's place of work and her home. Of course, one of the stops on the line was The Pentagon, so maybe it's just that line that's in good shape? Or maybe I blocked out all the bad stuff about the metro?
 
It's nearly bankrupt. Safety, budget woes threaten to consume Metro  There is a lot of debate as to how to deal with the problem. I was really shocked to see how bad it had gotten in the 20 years since I was first aware of it.

I know that a lot of people will read what I have written and say: "Well, health care is more important than subways!" Yes, it is. But the point that I am making is that we as a society are not holding our commitments to the public concerns that we have already committed to and that is alarming. Back home in Massachusetts, we have 98% of the populace signed up for health care under the recent initiative. However, we have roads and bridges that were built 50 or 100 years ago that are deteriorated to the point of condemnation and we have not done much to remedy that fact. So, I may have health care but no way to get to the place where health care is given because the bridge is out and the road is not plowed or paved and there is no public transportation. Progress?

Health care is a sexy political topic right now. Too bad roads and bridges and jobs will never be so sexy. We need them too.

AliGator

AliGator Avatar



Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 9:39pm

 Mugro wrote:


I don't know about the reporting of the racism. If people did that, then shame on them. Racism should NEVER be tolerated, no matter what the pretense. If they didn't, then shame on the media. We should not tolerate a media who extorts the truth. I am not really sure what happened. I wasn't there,so I don' know.

What I saw with my own eyes left a strong impression on me.

I was on the way with my family to pay my respects to those who have sacrificed their time and often their lives to the cause of the United States. We were going to Arlington National Cemetery. We saw the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and we paid our respects at the final resting place of the Kennedy family.

On the way back we travelled on the Washington D.C. Metro, which is the subway system which was constructed in the 1960s. When I was a college student in the late 80s, this transit system was still a shining example of what a public transit system could be for a nation's capital. Today, the Metro is far from it. We were half way up the escalator when the machine stopped and left us stranded. For my family it was not a big deal: we could walk up the steps to get to the train platform. For others on that escalator, it was not so easy. There was a woman ahead of us with only one leg who was on the escalator because the elevator was broken. This was a common theme in the Washington Metro system. Not many of the elevators serving the handicapped are working these days.

We helped the woman with one leg up the remaining stairs of the broken escalator, and we came upon a platform jammed with people. There were people of all nationalities, all ethnicities, and from every walk of life. Most of them were upset, however, because there had not been a train in the station for the last 30 minutes. Hundreds of people lined up on the station platform, and then the began to chant and shout: "This sucks, where's the train!"

When the train arrived, it was packed full of people. Some of the doors opened, others had to be pried open by the passengers. There was a layer of dirt and grime on the train that made it difficult to see out of the windows. We got on, just barely. When we got on the train, we wish we hadn't. The train had no air movement whatsoever. Not a good thing when crowed into a small space.

Then we got moving. The train jerked and moved uncertainly, because we knew that instead of the automatic pilot that had been installed in the trains and had been the hallmark of movement for the first 35 years of the Metro system, now all trains had to be manually driven. This is because last year trains had collided killing multiple people. Then the train stopped in the middle of the tunnel and remained there, without explanation, for the next 15 minutes before we could arrive at the next station.

The Washington Metro is a system in decline.

Why does this matter in a thread about health care?

It matters because our country is coming apart at the seams, and no one seems to notice.

Why are we about to spend so much on new social spending when we cannot afford to pay for the much needed infrastructure that we already have? Our inner cities are rotting and we are not even concerned about them?

Should we not focus on funding the social services that we already agreed to provide in prior social contracts before agreeing to provide new ones?

The subway cars that we rode on today were FULL of people going to the protests on Capitol Hill. I was quite shocked at this, because D.C. is quite a liberal place. However, there were a LOT of people on these trains coming in with their families trying to tell Congress that this Health Care bill was a bad idea. They all had stories. I heard quite a few.

I know that all of you here at RP are quite liberal and quite convinced that Obamacare is the absolute need of the country. That's fine. But you should know that there are a LOT of people that don't agree with you. They are all human beings and all are entitled to their opinion. I am sure that some of them are stupid rednecks, but then again, some of them are quite intelligent.

I know that this post will anger quite a few  of you. I don't mean to anger anyone. Don't take this personally, and please don't attack me personally, for you'll only hurt yourself. I have heard it all here at RP, so whatever you want to say to me personally won't be very original.

What I am hoping is that you will take this post for what it was intended for: a think piece. Think about it and perhaps see the debate in a different way. You are still entitled to your final opinion, but perhaps an open minded person might want to see and hear some different opinions, right?

If not, then so be it.

 
Wow, I'm just surprised at the state of the metro. I was in the area in June of 2006 or 2007, and I rode a clean, modern comfortable metro between my cousin's place of work and her home. Of course, one of the stops on the line was The Pentagon, so maybe it's just that line that's in good shape? Or maybe I blocked out all the bad stuff about the metro?

Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: Grand Duchy of Luxembourg


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 9:21pm

 buddy wrote:

The people who showed up to be angry were very angry.  Would that they could express their opinions in some other way than to stake out the members of the Black Caucus, including John Lewis, and scream "Nigger!" at them over and over.  We still have a long, long way to go as a people in this country.

You might want to think about qualifying your observation as "some people are angry".  There are a whole lot of us out here who are thrilled to see health care being reformed in our lifetime.  We don't feel the need to stake out the Republican block and scream "Crackers!" at them.

And yeah, I did say reform.
 

I don't know about the reporting of the racism. If people did that, then shame on them. Racism should NEVER be tolerated, no matter what the pretense. If they didn't, then shame on the media. We should not tolerate a media who extorts the truth. I am not really sure what happened. I wasn't there,so I don' know.

What I saw with my own eyes left a strong impression on me.

I was on the way with my family to pay my respects to those who have sacrificed their time and often their lives to the cause of the United States. We were going to Arlington National Cemetery. We saw the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and we paid our respects at the final resting place of the Kennedy family.

On the way back we travelled on the Washington D.C. Metro, which is the subway system which was constructed in the 1960s. When I was a college student in the late 80s, this transit system was still a shining example of what a public transit system could be for a nation's capital. Today, the Metro is far from it. We were half way up the escalator when the machine stopped and left us stranded. For my family it was not a big deal: we could walk up the steps to get to the train platform. For others on that escalator, it was not so easy. There was a woman ahead of us with only one leg who was on the escalator because the elevator was broken. This was a common theme in the Washington Metro system. Not many of the elevators serving the handicapped are working these days.

We helped the woman with one leg up the remaining stairs of the broken escalator, and we came upon a platform jammed with people. There were people of all nationalities, all ethnicities, and from every walk of life. Most of them were upset, however, because there had not been a train in the station for the last 30 minutes. Hundreds of people lined up on the station platform, and then the began to chant and shout: "This sucks, where's the train!"

When the train arrived, it was packed full of people. Some of the doors opened, others had to be pried open by the passengers. There was a layer of dirt and grime on the train that made it difficult to see out of the windows. We got on, just barely. When we got on the train, we wish we hadn't. The train had no air movement whatsoever. Not a good thing when crowed into a small space.

Then we got moving. The train jerked and moved uncertainly, because we knew that instead of the automatic pilot that had been installed in the trains and had been the hallmark of movement for the first 35 years of the Metro system, now all trains had to be manually driven. This is because last year trains had collided killing multiple people. Then the train stopped in the middle of the tunnel and remained there, without explanation, for the next 15 minutes before we could arrive at the next station.

The Washington Metro is a system in decline.

Why does this matter in a thread about health care?

It matters because our country is coming apart at the seams, and no one seems to notice.

Why are we about to spend so much on new social spending when we cannot afford to pay for the much needed infrastructure that we already have? Our inner cities are rotting and we are not even concerned about them?

Should we not focus on funding the social services that we already agreed to provide in prior social contracts before agreeing to provide new ones?

The subway cars that we rode on today were FULL of people going to the protests on Capitol Hill. I was quite shocked at this, because D.C. is quite a liberal place. However, there were a LOT of people on these trains coming in with their families trying to tell Congress that this Health Care bill was a bad idea. They all had stories. I heard quite a few.

I know that all of you here at RP are quite liberal and quite convinced that Obamacare is the absolute need of the country. That's fine. But you should know that there are a LOT of people that don't agree with you. They are all human beings and all are entitled to their opinion. I am sure that some of them are stupid rednecks, but then again, some of them are quite intelligent.

I know that this post will anger quite a few  of you. I don't mean to anger anyone. Don't take this personally, and please don't attack me personally, for you'll only hurt yourself. I have heard it all here at RP, so whatever you want to say to me personally won't be very original.

What I am hoping is that you will take this post for what it was intended for: a think piece. Think about it and perhaps see the debate in a different way. You are still entitled to your final opinion, but perhaps an open minded person might want to see and hear some different opinions, right?

If not, then so be it.
Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: Grand Duchy of Luxembourg


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 8:34pm

I was out and about in the city of D.C. today, and I can tell you it wasn't pretty. People are angry. Very angry.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 20, 2010 - 7:18pm


Inamorato

Inamorato Avatar

Location: Twin Cities
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 19, 2010 - 7:31pm

 hobiejoe wrote:
Congress? All for it.
 
Especially at the weekend when the kids are at grans place on a sleepover.

 
It's always better without parliamentary procedure.

hobiejoe

hobiejoe Avatar

Location: Still in the tunnel, looking for the light.
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 19, 2010 - 5:33pm

Congress? All for it.
 
Especially at the weekend when the kids are at grans place on a sleepover.
musik_knut

musik_knut Avatar

Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 19, 2010 - 5:30pm

Both Parties accuse the other of doing what they did when they could do likewise...
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 19, 2010 - 6:26am

Congress is stealing......and one of its members admits it. Truth is, political aggression and theft knows no party. It's universal.


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