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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Capitalism and Consumerism... now what? Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
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black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 7:39am

 nuggler wrote:

The white horse runs with the military.
 
For us humans, there will always be wars, corrupt politicians and religious leaders...but there will also always be "progress", if only as an undercurrent.

nuggler

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Location: RU Sirius ?
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 7:29am

 black321 wrote:


the white horse of technology will have to be the answer - as it has in the past; but when will we see it ride up over the hill?  I fear there may be a long economic downslide before it comes...or perhaps we can buy our way out of this mess and bide our time until then?  Regardless, all is not lost...the end of the world will only come once. 

 
The white horse runs with the military.

black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 7:19am

 rosedraws wrote:

This topic has been eating at me for most of my adult life.  

We are a consumer society.

It's ridiculously unsustainable.

How do we live through it?  Can we change it?  Can it ever be sustainable? 

 

the white horse of technology will have to be the answer - as it has in the past; but when will we see it ride up over the hill?  I fear there may be a long economic downslide before it comes...or perhaps we can buy our way out of this mess and bide our time until then?  Regardless, all is not lost...the end of the world will only come once. 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 7:12am

 Zep wrote:

Ghana.

The hardware is being burnt to get at the heavy metals and rare earth minerals for recovery and resale. Terrible way to do it — nasty pollution, and probably not all that effective, but they have no technology otherwise.
 

Yeah, I checked out the article.  The consumerist culture exists largly in The West, those who can't afford to be consumers elsewhere in the world become essentially microbes eating our garbage.  Lovely.
Zep

Zep Avatar



Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 7:07am

 oldslabsides wrote:
lovely.
 
Ghana.

The hardware is being burnt to get at the heavy metals and rare earth minerals for recovery and resale. Terrible way to do it — nasty pollution, and probably not all that effective, but they have no technology otherwise.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 6:58am

 rosedraws wrote:



This is what consumerism looks like.

That's our garbage, dumped on a country too poor and too uneducated to defend themselves.

 
It's a pretty good image of where the entire planet is headed.

Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 6:58am

 Zep wrote: 

lovely.
Zep

Zep Avatar



Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 6:51am

Thanks for starting this topic Rose. It touches on a lot of modern economic questions and issues — not just topics such as pollution and emissions, but growth and sustainability.

Can our economies continue to grow at the current (last 100 years') rate?  What are the implications for answers either way?

If growth, there needs to be a way to sustain it without adverse effects.

If no growth, then what? A steady state? A decline? Even with a steady state, there needs to be a fundamental reevaluation of the entire financial sector.

rosedraws

rosedraws Avatar

Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 6:48am

 Zep wrote: 


This is what consumerism looks like.

That's our garbage, dumped on a country too poor and too uneducated to defend themselves.
Zep

Zep Avatar



Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 6:44am

A Global Graveyard for Dead Computers


beamends

beamends Avatar



Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 4:16am

 kopak wrote:

I used to think that there's some sort of an unconscious deathwish in the process of this "cunning" plan you describe (aka market globalisation). Blind avidity is one thing, common happiness (some call it "welfare") is another. In a regular/ideal world, laws and governments are meant to regulate individual avidity in order to avoid pauperisation. We're not living in that world, are we ?

 

Sadly we are not, and due to human nature we never will I fear. I'm not sure Governments can really help (unless it were a global effort with no exceptions). We tried it in the 60's and 70's here in the UK, using 95% Income Tax, Death Duties and Inheritance Tax to "re-distribute wealth" - it didn't work - the super wealthy are super wealthy because they are prepared to circumnavigate the system to avoid any social reponsibility. We do at least have universal health care and social housing, so it could be worse I suppose, but Utpoia is a long way off! 
kopak

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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 3:15am

 beamends wrote:
I love the way proponents of Globalisation choose to overlook the flaw in their plan. Since Globalisation invariably means moving production to cheaper areas, the whole plan is undermined by the very consumers for whom the production is intended being put out of work by the Glabalisation process, and therefore being unable to consume.

 
I used to think that there's some sort of an unconscious deathwish in the process of this "cunning" plan you describe (aka market globalisation). Blind avidity is one thing, common happiness (some call it "welfare") is another. In a regular/ideal world, laws and governments are meant to regulate individual avidity in order to avoid pauperisation. We're not living in that world, are we ?
beamends

beamends Avatar



Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 2:10am

I love the way proponents of Globalisation choose to overlook the flaw in their plan. Since Globalisation invariably means moving production to cheaper areas, the whole plan is undermined by the very consumers for whom the production is intended being put out of work by the Glabalisation process, and therefore being unable to consume.
rosedraws

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Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 - 10:10pm

Consumerism was not an accident, and we didn't start out this way.

Shortly after the World War 2, President Eisenhower’s Council of Economic Advisors Chairman said that “The American economy’s
ultimate purpose is to produce more consumer goods.”  
Not provide health care, or education, or safe transportation, or sustainability or justice or energy innovation, or discovery...
Included in this plan was planned obsolesence, so that Consumerism would thrive even futher.  

This, supposedly, was going to fuel our massive, productive economy.  But they didn't plan on globalization, and executive greed, and the massive pollution issues, and WHERE THE HELL were we planning to PUT all these obsolete consumer goods when they were discarded by 300 million Americans??

Go to page 9 for the Consumerism section.
 
rosedraws

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Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 - 10:05pm

Capitalism and Consumerism in America
 
The American Dream.  The possibility to become WILDLY wealthy.  Taxes?  meh, a skim off the top, really.  There is no deterrent to just making as much money as you possibly can... it's encouraged really.

So, those who own and manage a company that is successful tend to enjoy a huge profit rather than put the money back into the company.

This, in itself, causes the failure of capitalism.  Profits are not put into people and supplies and healthcare to make the people happy and healthy... the profits are put into buying things for the executives... often luxury items which benefit the US economy very little.  ("Trickle down" does not — and never has — worked in any system involving humans.)

The way to boost the economy?  Pay the workers.  They buy stuff, they buy it nearby.  When they're happy, they buy more.  

This is one of the reasons we continue Unemployment Benefits... nothing stimulates the economy more directly.  Alternately, nothing hurts the economy more than having a working class that can not buy food, clothing, or take care of their own health and housing.

Without regulation, the majority of humans will take for themselves.  They will pollute and cut corners and do things that boost themselves, their comfort, their circumstances.  Free market has proven itself unable to fix this.  I would like to buy Christmas lights that last 10 years.  I will pay extra for them.  But they do not exist.  I would like to buy a fridge that will last 25 years.  They used to make them— hell, they all lasted that long, but they no longer build them that way.



rosedraws

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Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 - 10:02pm


This topic has been eating at me for most of my adult life.  

We are a consumer society.

It's ridiculously unsustainable.

How do we live through it?  Can we change it?  Can it ever be sustainable? 
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