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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 85, 86, 87  Next
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cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 14, 2023 - 8:27am

 R_P wrote:

The 3rd World War Has Begun : Escalation In Ukraine Will Change Everything - Emmanuel Todd


News reports (CBS, for one) indicate the current front lines are disturbingly similar to WW I: trench warfare.
God help us.
c.


R_P

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Posted: Feb 13, 2023 - 9:17pm

The 3rd World War Has Begun : Escalation In Ukraine Will Change Everything - Emmanuel Todd

Bill_J

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 9:27am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
An officer from SpaceX said Starlink was “never, never meant to be weaponised”, but then

Elon Musk's favorite Twitter feature is being weaponized by white supremacists


Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 8:35am

Fury in Ukraine as Elon Musk’s SpaceX limits Starlink use for drones
R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 8:15am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Cool, now that we have got that sorted..   I assume you then have no fundamental problem with liberal democracies defending themselves against invasion from autocratic neighbours, or have I missed a step along the way?

People (whether in a democratic state or not) have the right to resist. (Freedom Fighters!)
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 6:56am

 Red_Dragon wrote:



It's  groundhog day. I knew it.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 12:14am

 R_P wrote:

There's no reason to provide you with an alternative. I'm just fine with liberal democracies.

Cool, now that we have got that sorted..   I assume you then have no fundamental problem with liberal democracies defending themselves against invasion from autocratic neighbours, or have I missed a step along the way?

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 9:43pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 the best I can come up with is some kind of anti-US tribalism.
 
I concluded this years ago.  But everyone here sided with him and called me hostile and crazy.

I also said that he cannot be anti war when he unabashedly supports the Palestinians as Freedom Fighters®

Carry on and good luck.
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 6:47pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:



Incredible!  How could this be true?!  Am I dreaming?

Cognitive dissonance now at 240% !  Canna take this much longer! She's gonna blow!
Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 6:28pm


Beaker

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Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 5:55pm

MMM.



R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 4:07pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
All I claimed was that the democratic process might be the best we have for bashing out what values we want to collectively pursue. And absent of any constructive alternative from you I'll stick with that for now.

There's no reason to provide you with an alternative. I'm just fine with liberal democracies.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 3:10pm

 R_P wrote:

The "rules-based order" has democracies in it (and some that by now can barely be considered democracies) but that doesn't mean its (collective as by representatives) decision-making or rationales are necessarily democratic (i.e. supported or voted on by the people). Democracies vary quite a bit. Since you felt the need to highlight one issue, here's one esp. reactionary member. I can think of others.

Pretending the "rules-based order" is a monolith of superior values is bunkum.

again, your reading and logic are  flawed. You are conflating the democratic process behind support of a rules-based system (be it by stronger or weaker democracies) to imply that this should, by my reasoning, necessarily generate a monolith of superior values. 

That is not what I claimed.  First democracies are constantly in flux. So monolith is completely the wrong metaphor. Secondly, democracies can demonstrably become totally unhinged, therefore "necessarily better" is also fundamentally flawed.  All I claimed was that the democratic process might be the best we have for bashing out what values we want to collectively pursue. And absent of any constructive alternative from you I'll stick with that for now. It certainly doesn't mean that I or any other individual has to agree with the collective.

Likewise, your claim that the "rules" are not necessarily voted on by the people does not imply that the general process is per se undemocratic. Democracies have the wonderful capacity of hearing out even the weirdest claims made by their constituents. So if they are not voted on by the people originally, there is at least redress by democratic process. Not perfect, but hey.

But all of this still leaves the glaring question:  What are your values?  What on earth are you gunning for?



R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 2:44pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Evidence please? And if you think that, then what is your alternative?

The "rules-based order" has democracies in it (and some that by now can barely be considered democracies) but that doesn't mean its (collective as by representatives) decision-making or rationales are necessarily democratic (i.e. supported or voted on by the people). Democracies vary quite a bit. Since you felt the need to highlight one issue, here's one esp. reactionary member. I can think of others.

Pretending the "rules-based order" is a monolith of superior values is bunkum.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 2:30pm

 R_P wrote:

The rules-based order isn't democratic.


Evidence please? And if you think that, then what is your alternative?
R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 2:26pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I readily admit the concepts of right and wrong are determined by the "rules" which are bashed out in discourse and collectively agreed on by democratic process. This alone implies I don't necessarily agree with one or the other specific decision or policy. That is what democracy means.

And tbh  I still don't have a clue as to what political foundation you are championing anyway. I was kind of hoping it was some kind of Marxist ideal, but the best I can come up with is some kind of anti-US tribalism.

The rules-based order isn't democratic.

That's likely because you're steeped in pro-US tribalism. Or "cultural hegemony." Let's just slap a label on it and be done with it.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 2:19pm

 R_P wrote:

Leaving aside the obvious false dilemma. But with the (rules-based) exception/support of Saudi Arabia/Yemen (among others).



Your logic is flawed.  I readily admit the concepts of right and wrong are determined by the "rules" which are bashed out in discourse and collectively agreed on by democratic process. This alone implies I don't necessarily agree with one or the other specific decision or policy. That is what democracy means.

But as a system of government between multiple free agents, democracy and a rules-based system are a damned good idea IMHO. Doesn't mean they are perfect. But it might be the best we have.

If you want to jump outside that system and champion the neo-fascism of the Russian empire or some other kind of autocratic one-party government as being the bee's knees.. be my guest. That doesn't mean that either my position or your position is inconsistent. Just diametrically opposed. And tbh  I still don't have a clue as to what political foundation you are championing anyway. I was kind of hoping it was some kind of Marxist ideal, but the best I can come up with is some kind of anti-US tribalism.
R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 2:10pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
so the charge is cultural hegemony?  yeah. I'll go with that. If the alternative is fascist anti LBGT genocidal incursions into neighbouring countries, I'll stick with cultural hegemony. 

Leaving aside the obvious false dilemma. But with the (rules-based) exception/support of Saudi Arabia/Yemen (among others).
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 2:03pm

 R_P wrote:

My rules-based order, right or wrong.

so the charge is cultural hegemony?  yeah. I'll go with that. If the alternative is fascist anti LBGT genocidal incursions into neighbouring countries, I'll stick with cultural hegemony.  

R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 1:58pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
I readily admit that the west's "rules-based order" has frequently been tweaked to fit various dirty motives, the 2nd Gulf War being the most egregious example. That doesn't mean I agree with such wrongs. Why should I?

My rules-based order, right or wrong.
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