Show of Hands — Roots
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Now it's been 25 years or more
I've roamed this land from shore to shore
From Tyne to Tamar, Severn to Thames
From moor to vale, from peak to fen
Played in cafes, pubs and bars
I've stood in the street with my old guitar
But I'd be richer than all the rest
If I had a pound for each request
For 'Duelling Banjos', 'American Pie'
It's enough to make you cry
'Rule Britannia', or 'Swing low...'
Are they the only songs we English know?
Seed, bark, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots
After the speeches, when the cake's been cut
The disco's over and the bar is shut
At christening, birthday, wedding or wake
What can we sing 'til the morning breaks
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
Seed, bark, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots and
Haul away boys, let them go
Out in the wind and the rain and snow
We've lost more than we'll ever know
'Round the rocky shores of England
We need roots
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look, and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back
Seed, bark, flower, fruit
Never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
We need roots
Haul away boys, let them go
Out in the wind and the rain and snow
We've lost more than we'll ever know
'Round the rocky shores of England
We need roots...
I've roamed this land from shore to shore
From Tyne to Tamar, Severn to Thames
From moor to vale, from peak to fen
Played in cafes, pubs and bars
I've stood in the street with my old guitar
But I'd be richer than all the rest
If I had a pound for each request
For 'Duelling Banjos', 'American Pie'
It's enough to make you cry
'Rule Britannia', or 'Swing low...'
Are they the only songs we English know?
Seed, bark, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots
After the speeches, when the cake's been cut
The disco's over and the bar is shut
At christening, birthday, wedding or wake
What can we sing 'til the morning breaks
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
Seed, bark, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots and
Haul away boys, let them go
Out in the wind and the rain and snow
We've lost more than we'll ever know
'Round the rocky shores of England
We need roots
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look, and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back
Seed, bark, flower, fruit
Never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
We need roots
Haul away boys, let them go
Out in the wind and the rain and snow
We've lost more than we'll ever know
'Round the rocky shores of England
We need roots...
Comments (205)add comment
jools wrote:
Best not mess with the Fredster - he knows of what he speaks!
However, he is missing 500 years of Roman history.
Best not mess with the Fredster - he knows of what he speaks!
However, he is missing 500 years of Roman history.
rdo wrote:
Crap. This song is about the roots of England which would be nationalism. Versus the 22 million American songs that are propaganda?
I am unsure why it is fascism for England to want to hold on to its traditions but admirable when you talk about South Africa.
Translation of this song: in a nutshell, fascism is a good thing. Rule Britannia! 
Crap. This song is about the roots of England which would be nationalism. Versus the 22 million American songs that are propaganda?
I am unsure why it is fascism for England to want to hold on to its traditions but admirable when you talk about South Africa.
Gazraman wrote:
....... agree a complete an utter fucking disgrace
This song is a fucking disgrace.
....... agree a complete an utter fucking disgrace
I LOVE this song and the message it carries! The mixture of tradition folk with modern is wonderful. Thank you for turning me on to this group!
This song is fuckin brilliant
This song is a fucking disgrace.
Virile. AYE!!!
brilliant
So much for a stiff upper lip.
Translation of this song: in a nutshell, fascism is a good thing. Rule Britannia!
Played this yesterday on my iPod while driving to Charlotte, NC. Love the recording and stereo separation of the over-dubbed voices. This is amazing with earphones. And it can't be played too loud!! Love it!!!
Like 
sanctimonious
seditious
i like it
seditious
i like it
oldsaxon wrote:
I see your point but disagree with it. This is undeniably a fine English folk song. It borrows brilliantly from traditional, but it is, like afro-Celts, who are mentioned in the lyric, a new, exciting and proud version of a wonderful tradition. Good song. I believe I gave it an 8....might be a nine....clever writing that
It's not about just singing English folk songs, but of using the old songs as a carrier of history of tradition. My point stands.
I see your point but disagree with it. This is undeniably a fine English folk song. It borrows brilliantly from traditional, but it is, like afro-Celts, who are mentioned in the lyric, a new, exciting and proud version of a wonderful tradition. Good song. I believe I gave it an 8....might be a nine....clever writing that
It's not about just singing English folk songs, but of using the old songs as a carrier of history of tradition. My point stands.
I am in sympathy with the lyrics, but the music itself totally undercuts the message.
"Why do the English turn their backs on their own folk music" the song seems to ask. Maybe because too much of it sounds like tired old sea shanties - a bit like this song.
"Why do the English turn their backs on their own folk music" the song seems to ask. Maybe because too much of it sounds like tired old sea shanties - a bit like this song.
I adore both songs but for the first time ever when listening to RP I would have to say ouch on that segway.
I don't know, I'm torn about this song. On the one hand, it does a pretty good job of boosting national pride while downplaying the worst aspects of nationalism. On the other hand, I'm not English, so this doesn't really speak to me at all.
Just taking a moment out of my day to say that this song sux. I'll take my preachin' in church thany you very much.
Art_Carnage wrote:
I see your point but disagree with it. This is undeniably a fine English folk song. It borrows brilliantly from traditional, but it is, like afro-Celts, who are mentioned in the lyric, a new, exciting and proud version of a wonderful tradition. Good song. I believe I gave it an 8....might be a nine....clever writing that
Ah, the irony of composing and recording a brand new song about how people don't listing to traditional music any more.
I see your point but disagree with it. This is undeniably a fine English folk song. It borrows brilliantly from traditional, but it is, like afro-Celts, who are mentioned in the lyric, a new, exciting and proud version of a wonderful tradition. Good song. I believe I gave it an 8....might be a nine....clever writing that
I have a sudden hankering for the Levellers
Love love LOVE this song — thanks so much for putting it on your playlist!
:)
:)
Ah, the irony of composing and recording a brand new song about how people don't listing to traditional music any more.
Cynaera wrote:
Stingray - please just go away. You've gone from being a novelty to being an infant. The problem is that some people here might actually read your comments and believe in you. (And may they go away, too.) I've reached my limit of troll-dom, so from now on, I won't hold back from vitriolic comments regarding trolls. Well, geez - target-practice as therapy is a good thing, right?
Careful. If you respond to trolls you eventually become one yourself. That's how they propagate.
Stingray - please just go away. You've gone from being a novelty to being an infant. The problem is that some people here might actually read your comments and believe in you. (And may they go away, too.) I've reached my limit of troll-dom, so from now on, I won't hold back from vitriolic comments regarding trolls. Well, geez - target-practice as therapy is a good thing, right?
Careful. If you respond to trolls you eventually become one yourself. That's how they propagate.
thinks about the british music invasion and how the beatles, the stones, the who etc. really dominated the american music landscape for quite awhile.
Stingray wrote:
It's difficult to be more ridiculous than you, O Troll. And yes, you have no clue as to what you're ranting about, as usual. This song talks to all in the UK, and specifically England, in these highly-charged days of progressive Scottish and Welsh nationalism and reactionary English nationalism. It's a plea for a progressive English culture, for English folk to recover their radical roots (Wat Tyler, Levellers, Tolpuddle Martyrs, Poll Tax riots, etc, etc), reclaim nationalism from the nazis and fascists (just like the ones in your homeland these days, mate) and White Van Men, and recover pride in themselves as the Welsh and Scottish have already done.
Try listening and understanding rather than just slagging off reflexively. The lyrics are quoted below by Cynaera, so you don't even have to listen to the song. Engage your brain before writing.
Is being more ridiculous
possible at all...?
PS
for a real cynical laugh scroll down and read.
Am I crazy, stupid and have no clue?
Or are some folks just kidding me with their
banana-comments ("...shivers down my timbers?"
Whaaat...?)
possible at all...?
PS
for a real cynical laugh scroll down and read.
Am I crazy, stupid and have no clue?
Or are some folks just kidding me with their
banana-comments ("...shivers down my timbers?"
Whaaat...?)
It's difficult to be more ridiculous than you, O Troll. And yes, you have no clue as to what you're ranting about, as usual. This song talks to all in the UK, and specifically England, in these highly-charged days of progressive Scottish and Welsh nationalism and reactionary English nationalism. It's a plea for a progressive English culture, for English folk to recover their radical roots (Wat Tyler, Levellers, Tolpuddle Martyrs, Poll Tax riots, etc, etc), reclaim nationalism from the nazis and fascists (just like the ones in your homeland these days, mate) and White Van Men, and recover pride in themselves as the Welsh and Scottish have already done.
Try listening and understanding rather than just slagging off reflexively. The lyrics are quoted below by Cynaera, so you don't even have to listen to the song. Engage your brain before writing.
Stingray wrote:
Stingray - please just go away. You've gone from being a novelty to being an infant. The problem is that some people here might actually read your comments and believe in you. (And may they go away, too.) I've reached my limit of troll-dom, so from now on, I won't hold back from vitriolic comments regarding trolls. Well, geez - target-practice as therapy is a good thing, right?
Is being more ridiculous
possible at all...?
PS
for a real cynical laugh scroll down and read.
Am I crazy, stupid and have no clue?
Or are some folks just kidding me with their
banana-comments ("...shivers down my timbers?"
Whaaat...?)
possible at all...?
PS
for a real cynical laugh scroll down and read.
Am I crazy, stupid and have no clue?
Or are some folks just kidding me with their
banana-comments ("...shivers down my timbers?"
Whaaat...?)
Stingray - please just go away. You've gone from being a novelty to being an infant. The problem is that some people here might actually read your comments and believe in you. (And may they go away, too.) I've reached my limit of troll-dom, so from now on, I won't hold back from vitriolic comments regarding trolls. Well, geez - target-practice as therapy is a good thing, right?
Roots, indeed. Whingeing about the fruits of 400 years of global imperialism. Sucks to be a rich country.
Now it's been 25 years or more
I've roamed this land from shore to shore
From Tyne to Tamar, Severn to Thames
From moor to vale, from peak to fen
I've roamed this land from shore to shore
From Tyne to Tamar, Severn to Thames
From moor to vale, from peak to fen
Played in cafes, pubs and bars
I've stood in the street with my old guitar
But I'd be richer than all the rest
If I had a pound for each request
For 'Duelling Banjos', 'American Pie'
It's enough to make you cry
'Rule Britannia', or 'Swing low...'
Are they the only songs we English know?
Seed, bud, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots
After the speeches, when the cake's been cut
The disco's over and the bar is shut
At christening, birthday, wedding or wake
What can we sing 'til the morning breaks
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
Seed, bud, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots and
Haul away boys, let them go
Out in the wind and the rain and snow
We've lost more than we'll ever know
'Round the rocky shores of England
Find More lyrics at www.sweetslyrics.com
We need roots
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look, and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back
Seed, bud, flower, fruit
Never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
We need roots
Haul away boys, let them go
Out in the wind and the rain and snow
We've lost more than we'll ever know
'Round the rocky shores of England
We need roots...
Interesting commentary on this song and the attempted appropriation by the British National Party here https://fitzroy.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/roots-by-show-of-hands-of-course-the-bnp-love-it/ -
fredriley wrote:
Er, well I've been studying this field in quite some detail lately as part of a distance course in Gaelic culture, and I can tell you with some certainty that various flavours of Celts preceded the Angles and Saxons by some considerable time. There were four Celtic peoples in the island: P-Celts, Q-Celts, Picts and Britons, all of whom came from various parts of Europe. The original peoples were those of prehistory and there were neolithic settlements in the island before the Celts, right enough. I could provide various references and links but I suspect that would be rather wasted on a music board.
Best not mess with the Fredster - he knows of what he speaks!
Er, well I've been studying this field in quite some detail lately as part of a distance course in Gaelic culture, and I can tell you with some certainty that various flavours of Celts preceded the Angles and Saxons by some considerable time. There were four Celtic peoples in the island: P-Celts, Q-Celts, Picts and Britons, all of whom came from various parts of Europe. The original peoples were those of prehistory and there were neolithic settlements in the island before the Celts, right enough. I could provide various references and links but I suspect that would be rather wasted on a music board.
Best not mess with the Fredster - he knows of what he speaks!
oilydwarf wrote:
I saw 5 dwarfs once!
In winter in Somerset.
Coffee makes me nervous, when I drink it...
hell - 3 folk singers in a pub near wells!! I live in Somerset, once went to my local pub and saw 4 - absolute hell on earth!!!!!
I saw 5 dwarfs once!
In winter in Somerset.
Coffee makes me nervous, when I drink it...
hell - 3 folk singers in a pub near wells!! I live in Somerset, once went to my local pub and saw 4 - absolute hell on earth!!!!!
Is being more ridiculous
possible at all...?
PS
for a real cynical laugh scroll down and read.
Am I crazy, stupid and have no clue?
Or are some folks just kidding me with their
banana-comments ("...shivers down my timbers?"
Whaaat...?)
possible at all...?
PS
for a real cynical laugh scroll down and read.
Am I crazy, stupid and have no clue?
Or are some folks just kidding me with their
banana-comments ("...shivers down my timbers?"
Whaaat...?)
firerytrigon wrote:
The Celts came from central western Europe. Switzerland, Austia .. that kind of area. They came to Britain. They're not original.
Er, well I've been studying this field in quite some detail lately as part of a distance course in Gaelic culture, and I can tell you with some certainty that various flavours of Celts preceded the Angles and Saxons by some considerable time. There were four Celtic peoples in the island: P-Celts, Q-Celts, Picts and Britons, all of whom came from various parts of Europe. The original peoples were those of prehistory and there were neolithic settlements in the island before the Celts, right enough. I could provide various references and links but I suspect that would be rather wasted on a music board.
The Celts came from central western Europe. Switzerland, Austia .. that kind of area. They came to Britain. They're not original.
Er, well I've been studying this field in quite some detail lately as part of a distance course in Gaelic culture, and I can tell you with some certainty that various flavours of Celts preceded the Angles and Saxons by some considerable time. There were four Celtic peoples in the island: P-Celts, Q-Celts, Picts and Britons, all of whom came from various parts of Europe. The original peoples were those of prehistory and there were neolithic settlements in the island before the Celts, right enough. I could provide various references and links but I suspect that would be rather wasted on a music board.
Carbon Leaf Anyone?
Really liked this song! Good British Vibe.. makes me want to down some fish and chips tonight.
The English are Angelsachsen - Saxons and Angel. Both tribes migrated to the english island, which got its name from the Angel (Angel became Anglish/English).
oldslabsides wrote:
Quite a curious reversal of terminology when you realize the Picts and Celts (Scots, Irish & Welsh) were the original Britons. The English are Saxon (German.)
oldslabsides wrote:
Quite a curious reversal of terminology when you realize the Picts and Celts (Scots, Irish & Welsh) were the original Britons. The English are Saxon (German.)
oldslabsides wrote:
Quite a curious reversal of terminology when you realize the Picts and Celts (Scots, Irish & Welsh) were the original Britons. The English are Saxon (German.)
The Celts came from central western Europe. Switzerland, Austia .. that kind of area. They came to Britain. They're not original.
Quite a curious reversal of terminology when you realize the Picts and Celts (Scots, Irish & Welsh) were the original Britons. The English are Saxon (German.)
The Celts came from central western Europe. Switzerland, Austia .. that kind of area. They came to Britain. They're not original.
This puts ''Shivers'' down me Timbers..........
I like this - fun! Good bar song! It would be cool to see someone do this a capella on an open mike night somewhere...
Dag! This rocks!
TerryS wrote:
Quite a curious reversal of terminology when you realize the Picts and Celts (Scots, Irish & Welsh) were the original Britons. The English are Saxon (German.)
I used to call myself British, until I noticed that only the English called themselves that.
No Irish, Scot or Welshman does. So now I'm English.
No Irish, Scot or Welshman does. So now I'm English.
Quite a curious reversal of terminology when you realize the Picts and Celts (Scots, Irish & Welsh) were the original Britons. The English are Saxon (German.)
lysisphere wrote:
Yeah, about that. What is with NMA's conspicuous absence from RP?
If these lyrics touch you, you may also get the same emotions from New Model Army.
Yeah, about that. What is with NMA's conspicuous absence from RP?
tutakea wrote:
^ What he/she said
absolutely nauseating crap
^ What he/she said
absolutely nauseating crap
Amazing in more ways than one. Thanks again.
10
If these lyrics touch you, you may also get the same emotions from New Model Army.
need more of this
tipper wrote:
Five years of the CONDEM-NATION government should generate some great new English protest songs!
Could do with more of this. Being English it strikes a chord or two. We have a great folk base in England and we still import everyone elses, good or bad.
Five years of the CONDEM-NATION government should generate some great new English protest songs!
Could do with more of this. Being English it strikes a chord or two. We have a great folk base in England and we still import everyone elses, good or bad.
I used to call myself British, until I noticed that only the English called themselves that.
No Irish, Scot or Welshman does. So now I'm English.
No Irish, Scot or Welshman does. So now I'm English.
MrCaps wrote:
You know, nothing stays the same and everything changes. Ultimately, we all need to accept this.
It's fine to idealize the past, but to construct an ideal the the clock must be turned back is very dangerous and foolish.
Yeah, don't you know it's regressive to support, defend and expand the culture that built your country - unless, of course, it's imported into someone else's country. Then it's called diversity, and you'll get tasty government subsidies to protect and grow it ad infinitum. Equal time for traditions, please.It's fine to idealize the past, but to construct an ideal the the clock must be turned back is very dangerous and foolish.
MrCaps wrote:
You know, nothing stays the same and everything changes. Ultimately, we all need to accept this.
It's fine to idealize the past, but to construct an ideal the the clock must be turned back is very dangerous and foolish.
To MrCaps you let your country go the way it is and we in the UK yes we the indigenous population will worry about ours disintergrating into the arms of Brussels.These guys are singing/begging for our traditions to stay the way they are and have always been. Also this is a music site not a political one so best keep those sort of comments to yourself.
You know, nothing stays the same and everything changes. Ultimately, we all need to accept this.
It's fine to idealize the past, but to construct an ideal the the clock must be turned back is very dangerous and foolish.
To MrCaps you let your country go the way it is and we in the UK yes we the indigenous population will worry about ours disintergrating into the arms of Brussels.These guys are singing/begging for our traditions to stay the way they are and have always been. Also this is a music site not a political one so best keep those sort of comments to yourself.
callum wrote:
Alright, don't rub it in. I really wanted to get up to Exeter to see them before Chrimbo.
Still, their mate Jenna is playing here next month....
Love this song. And Show of Hands have an amazing live act!
Alright, don't rub it in. I really wanted to get up to Exeter to see them before Chrimbo.Still, their mate Jenna is playing here next month....
I tend to like this... but at times it turns into what sounds like a Welsh version of "We Didn't Start The Fire"
callum wrote:
Note the bit where he rails against the BNP and the like:
"How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George and the Union Jack
That's my flag too and I want it back"
This country doesn't know where it comes from, and it will never know if people don't wake up soon.
You know, nothing stays the same and everything changes. Ultimately, we all need to accept this.
It's fine to idealize the past, but to construct an ideal the the clock must be turned back is very dangerous and foolish.
Note the bit where he rails against the BNP and the like:
"How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George and the Union Jack
That's my flag too and I want it back"
This country doesn't know where it comes from, and it will never know if people don't wake up soon.
You know, nothing stays the same and everything changes. Ultimately, we all need to accept this.
It's fine to idealize the past, but to construct an ideal the the clock must be turned back is very dangerous and foolish.
jessbussert wrote:
Note the bit where he rails against the BNP and the like:
"How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George and the Union Jack
That's my flag too and I want it back"
This country doesn't know where it comes from, and it will never know if people don't wake up soon.
Hi Claire,
You say this is not a nationalistic song, but isn't the union jack the current banner of the BNP? Personally, I like the song. I just hope it doesn't become an anthem for the hate mongers.
Jessica
ClaireWild wrote:
You say this is not a nationalistic song, but isn't the union jack the current banner of the BNP? Personally, I like the song. I just hope it doesn't become an anthem for the hate mongers.
Jessica
ClaireWild wrote:
In my view, this is a very good song, about a very salient subject. This is not a nationalistic song. It's about perhaps trying to keep alive a national culture. All countries have this I would reason? For instance, when you go on your holidays to perhaps a foreign country it is part of this visit to enjoy and experience that countries customs. Hence, should you visit the UK....England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, you will find regional differences. It is in my opinion of the utmost importance to preserve cultural and regional differences whilst respecting all individuals rights. Anyway, this is in my view a great album, and Show of Hands are excellent arbiters of English folk music. May I also suggest The Imagined Village.
Note the bit where he rails against the BNP and the like:
"How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George and the Union Jack
That's my flag too and I want it back"
This country doesn't know where it comes from, and it will never know if people don't wake up soon.
Sounds like a call to arms for some nationalist right-wing BS.
ottojama wrote:
I think it's anti- American-cultural-imperialism as much as anything. After much soul-searching and vacillating, I've decided I like it, too. 7
This is euro-nationalistic song. And I like it.
I think it's anti- American-cultural-imperialism as much as anything. After much soul-searching and vacillating, I've decided I like it, too. 7
That_SOB wrote:
Very nice, I think I'll just keep marching around me living room with me flag.
I swear I just heard a Messerschmitt fly over me house. Man the anti-aircraft guns lads !
Not sure if you have quite understood the irony of this wonderful song....
Very nice, I think I'll just keep marching around me living room with me flag.
I swear I just heard a Messerschmitt fly over me house. Man the anti-aircraft guns lads !
Not sure if you have quite understood the irony of this wonderful song....
Love this song. And Show of Hands have an amazing live act!
Very nice, I think I'll just keep marching around me living room with me flag.
I swear I just heard a Messerschmitt fly over me house. Man the anti-aircraft guns lads !
This is euro-nationalistic song. And I like it.
9 just because I like folk music, that and I wish I were in a Pub
Hi Claire,
You say this is not a nationalistic song, but isn't the union jack the current banner of the BNP? Personally, I like the song. I just hope it doesn't become an anthem for the hate mongers.
Jessica
ClaireWild wrote:
You say this is not a nationalistic song, but isn't the union jack the current banner of the BNP? Personally, I like the song. I just hope it doesn't become an anthem for the hate mongers.
Jessica
ClaireWild wrote:
In my view, this is a very good song, about a very salient subject. This is not a nationalistic song. It's about perhaps trying to keep alive a national culture. All countries have this I would reason? For instance, when you go on your holidays to perhaps a foreign country it is part of this visit to enjoy and experience that countries customs. Hence, should you visit the UK....England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, you will find regional differences. It is in my opinion of the utmost importance to preserve cultural and regional differences whilst respecting all individuals rights. Anyway, this is in my view a great album, and Show of Hands are excellent arbiters of English folk music. May I also suggest The Imagined Village.
I gotta say, after seeing Nicky boy on Question time the other night, this song has an ominous tinge . . . it's a hard one. People crave lost identity, which was wonderful, but it had it's downside, too.
michaelgmitchell wrote:
yeah, let's stop debating. why don't we just close down the comments board. while were at it, let's just shut down the whole damn Internet
What the hell are you people debating? From across the pond here in Canada, it's a cool, catchy, passionate piece of musical poetry. "Sing-songy" is a good description. Nice pick, Bill.
yeah, let's stop debating. why don't we just close down the comments board. while were at it, let's just shut down the whole damn Internet
I love this song and turn it up every time it comes up. I emigrated to the US when I was five and grew up listening to The Five Penny Piece and The Spinners. It was a way for my parents to share some of their culture with the kids and we spent a lot of time listening to and singing this music. When I heard this song it reminded me of the difference between what it felt like to go into a pub when I was eighteen and how it is now. It's sad and catchy at the same time. As soon as I heard this song I sent a link to it to my Dad and we both had a cry.
Nice sound have followed RP link and I see they are performing not far from me on the 8th of next month .. must get along. I do like some well produced ENGLISH Folk Music.. well done RP
I personally love a bit of hippy folk music
bobcat1963 wrote:
Do you have no control over your computer? Please use your mute button.
please make it stop!
Do you have no control over your computer? Please use your mute button.
please make it stop! 
Decent tune. End of story.
ClaireWild wrote:
Bravo!
In my view, this is a very good song, about a very salient subject. This is not a nationalistic song. It's about perhaps trying to keep alive a national culture. All countries have this I would reason? For instance, when you go on your holidays to perhaps a foreign country it is part of this visit to enjoy and experience that countries customs. Hence, should you visit the UK....England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, you will find regional differences. It is in my opinion of the utmost importance to preserve cultural and regional differences whilst respecting all individuals rights. Anyway, this is in my view a great album, and Show of Hands are excellent arbiters of English folk music. May I also suggest The Imagined Village.
Bravo!
Toke wrote:
Excuse me young man but they are an ''ENGLISH' Band and I am proud to be from the same country.
sod off, laddie, i'm scottish.
Excuse me young man but they are an ''ENGLISH' Band and I am proud to be from the same country.
sod off, laddie, i'm scottish.
craigf wrote:
Excuse me young man but they are an ''ENGLISH' Band and I am proud to be from the same country.
i'm proud to be british.
and being pro-britain doesn't make me anti- anything.
take your narrow-minded thinking elsewhere, if you please.
RULE BRITANNIA & GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
and being pro-britain doesn't make me anti- anything.
take your narrow-minded thinking elsewhere, if you please.
RULE BRITANNIA & GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
Excuse me young man but they are an ''ENGLISH' Band and I am proud to be from the same country.
craigf wrote:
Excuse me young man but they are an ''ENGLISH' and I am proud to be from the same country.
i'm proud to be british.
and being pro-britain doesn't make me anti- anything.
take your narrow-minded thinking elsewhere, if you please.
RULE BRITANNIA & GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
and being pro-britain doesn't make me anti- anything.
take your narrow-minded thinking elsewhere, if you please.
RULE BRITANNIA & GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
Excuse me young man but they are an ''ENGLISH' and I am proud to be from the same country.
i'm proud to be british.
and being pro-britain doesn't make me anti- anything.
take your narrow-minded thinking elsewhere, if you please.
RULE BRITANNIA & GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
and being pro-britain doesn't make me anti- anything.
take your narrow-minded thinking elsewhere, if you please.
RULE BRITANNIA & GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
jingoistc
had to look it up
jingoism |Ëji ng gÅËizÉm|
noun chiefly derogatory
extreme patriotism, esp. in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
maybe i'm a hopeless jingo but i don't see it
infact i feel the same way road tripping in america and driving thru a town with no place to eat except the national franchises
wot happened here ?
hcaudill wrote:
had to look it up
jingoism |Ëji ng gÅËizÉm|
noun chiefly derogatory
extreme patriotism, esp. in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
maybe i'm a hopeless jingo but i don't see it
infact i feel the same way road tripping in america and driving thru a town with no place to eat except the national franchises
wot happened here ?
hcaudill wrote:
canoeist wrote:
I dislike this jingoistic song more every time I hear it.
A better example of what it feels like to be English you will never find. This song brings a lump to my throat everytime I here it
I dislike this jingoistic song more every time I hear it.
What the hell are you people debating? From across the pond here in Canada, it's a cool, catchy, passionate piece of musical poetry. "Sing-songy" is a good description. Nice pick, Bill.
Sing-songy.
If I had a pound for each request
For 'Duelling Banjos', 'American Pie'
It's enough to make you cry
'Rule Britannia', or 'Swing low...'
Are they the only songs we English know?
.....
At christening, birthday, wedding or wake
What can we sing 'til the morning breaks
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
...............
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wales
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we oughta be ashamed of all we walk
Of the way we look, at the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
For 'Duelling Banjos', 'American Pie'
It's enough to make you cry
'Rule Britannia', or 'Swing low...'
Are they the only songs we English know?
.....
At christening, birthday, wedding or wake
What can we sing 'til the morning breaks
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
...............
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wales
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we oughta be ashamed of all we walk
Of the way we look, at the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
fredriley wrote:
It's an excellent dig at the 'modern' TV pub, where instead of punters talking with each other, singing, listening to live music, playing traditional games, and generally interacting with each other, they stand gape-mouthed in their replica footie shirts passively watching a bunch of poncey McTeams in the McLeague - sorry, "Premier League" - on Sky TV. Spectacle replacing real life. Pubs are the heart and soul of working-class life in this country, not just places where people go to get pissed and watch TV.
Very well stated!
It's an excellent dig at the 'modern' TV pub, where instead of punters talking with each other, singing, listening to live music, playing traditional games, and generally interacting with each other, they stand gape-mouthed in their replica footie shirts passively watching a bunch of poncey McTeams in the McLeague - sorry, "Premier League" - on Sky TV. Spectacle replacing real life. Pubs are the heart and soul of working-class life in this country, not just places where people go to get pissed and watch TV.
Very well stated!Yes, well apparently the English "Didn't Start the Fire", either. I am nowhere NEAR drunk enough to think this isn't... how they say, "shite"?
Lead singer voice/style and lyrics reminds me of Stuart Davis.
miahfost wrote:
It most certainly could not be described as the first civil war. There were very few who identified with the Royalist cause and even fewer who were willing to be taxed by King George. "Taxation without representation", that should ring a bell for everyone who had a week of American history in school.
Taxation without representation is still a principle of British law - not, alas, of American. I paid taxes for many many years without being eligible to vote. I was indeed brought up to believe that as one of the noble principles of the American revolution. Alas, I was deceived.
It most certainly could not be described as the first civil war. There were very few who identified with the Royalist cause and even fewer who were willing to be taxed by King George. "Taxation without representation", that should ring a bell for everyone who had a week of American history in school.
Taxation without representation is still a principle of British law - not, alas, of American. I paid taxes for many many years without being eligible to vote. I was indeed brought up to believe that as one of the noble principles of the American revolution. Alas, I was deceived.
I'd like to venture that the brilliant "Sons and Daughters" by the Decembrists is an American equivalent to this song. It doesn't mention anything specific about the United States anywhere in there, but the sentiment is unmistakable. I can understand those who defend this Show of Hands song on those grounds. I need to hear it a few more times though. Interesting discussion, by the way.
Ohg aye - let it all be and give up the pretentious language - what does this music resonate with in your soul? ClaireWild wrote:
In my view, this is a very good song, about a very salient subject. This is not a nationalistic song. It's about perhaps trying to keep alive a national culture. All countries have this I would reason? For instance, when you go on your holidays to perhaps a foreign country it is part of this visit to enjoy and experience that countries customs. Hence, should you visit the UK....England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, you will find regional differences. It is in my opinion of the utmost importance to preserve cultural and regional differences whilst respecting all individuals rights. Anyway, this is in my view a great album, and Show of Hands are excellent arbiters of English folk music. May I also suggest The Imagined Village.
Not quite god-like on this tiny island where I live but it draws up all of the folk roots I was born with.
In my view, this is a very good song, about a very salient subject. This is not a nationalistic song. It's about perhaps trying to keep alive a national culture. All countries have this I would reason? For instance, when you go on your holidays to perhaps a foreign country it is part of this visit to enjoy and experience that countries customs. Hence, should you visit the UK....England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, you will find regional differences. It is in my opinion of the utmost importance to preserve cultural and regional differences whilst respecting all individuals rights. Anyway, this is in my view a great album, and Show of Hands are excellent arbiters of English folk music. May I also suggest The Imagined Village.
mybaldbird wrote:
My take is that it was very uneven, with a LOT of chaff tossed in.
The music selection today was ridiculously good, thank you so much Bill.
My take is that it was very uneven, with a LOT of chaff tossed in.The music selection today was ridiculously good, thank you so much Bill.
Totally Dig It!!
Jesusgod, have I commented on this yet? This could totally be a French song. Or more specifically, a Breton song. Not gonna write a rundown of the history here, though. Or anywhere, really.
canoeist wrote:
It most certainly could not be described as the first civil war. There were very few who identified with the Royalist cause and even fewer who were willing to be taxed by King George. "Taxation without representation", that should ring a bell for everyone who had a week of American history in school.
A better example of what it feels like to be English you will never find. This song brings a lump to my throat everytime I here it - absolutely fantastic
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
It most certainly could not be described as the first civil war. There were very few who identified with the Royalist cause and even fewer who were willing to be taxed by King George. "Taxation without representation", that should ring a bell for everyone who had a week of American history in school.
philinnz wrote:
It's an excellent dig at the 'modern' TV pub, where instead of punters talking with each other, singing, listening to live music, playing traditional games, and generally interacting with each other, they stand gape-mouthed in their replica footie shirts passively watching a bunch of poncey McTeams in the McLeague - sorry, "Premier League" - on Sky TV. Spectacle replacing real life. Pubs are the heart and soul of working-class life in this country, not just places where people go to get pissed and watch TV. I sympathise fully with the words above.
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
Good stuff - not quite sure what it all means and the AB's will win once again in GB
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
Good stuff - not quite sure what it all means and the AB's will win once again in GB
It's an excellent dig at the 'modern' TV pub, where instead of punters talking with each other, singing, listening to live music, playing traditional games, and generally interacting with each other, they stand gape-mouthed in their replica footie shirts passively watching a bunch of poncey McTeams in the McLeague - sorry, "Premier League" - on Sky TV. Spectacle replacing real life. Pubs are the heart and soul of working-class life in this country, not just places where people go to get pissed and watch TV. I sympathise fully with the words above.
Nationlist tripe.
excellent set from Paul McCartney to Show of Hands. It was just another moment that made our families snow day. Thanks.
canoeist wrote:
Well said. Too many love to throw stones but yet live in glass houses.
A better example of what it feels like to be English you will never find. This song brings a lump to my throat everytime I here it - absolutely fantastic
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
Well said. Too many love to throw stones but yet live in glass houses.
Hah. Right after an AfroCelts song!
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
canoeist wrote:
I dislike this jingoistic song more every time I hear it.
A better example of what it feels like to be English you will never find. This song brings a lump to my throat everytime I here it
I dislike this jingoistic song more every time I hear it.
The lead singer sounds like Martyn Joseph. Which is just fine by me.
Is this the same singer who heads up Oysterband?
The voice sounds similar, although the arrangement and production is very different.
The voice sounds similar, although the arrangement and production is very different.
And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
Good stuff - not quite sure what it all means and the AB's will win once again in GB
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells
Well, I've got a vision of urban sprawl
There's pubs where no-one ever sings at all
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
Good stuff - not quite sure what it all means and the AB's will win once again in GB
canoeist wrote:
lol!
nice one!
A better example of what it feels like to be English you will never find. This song brings a lump to my throat everytime I here it - absolutely fantastic
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
lol!
nice one!
A better example of what it feels like to be English you will never find. This song brings a lump to my throat everytime I here it - absolutely fantastic
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
Also to all those who feel the need to bring up the Imperial past of Britain I would like to point out that it was just that - BRITISH. For all their bleating, the Scots, Welsh and Irish were just as culpable - in the Scots case possibly more since many of the most prominent colonialists were Scottish. The British Empire was a system based on trade not conquest. When trade was threatened then the army went in, an army that very often consisted of local troops (as was the case during the American Independance War - A war that could be better described as the first American Civil War). This in no way is meant to justify, but to put into context for all who seem to think that everyone who is English should atone for something that happened 200 years ago. I for one know that my family were poor ropemakers eaking out an existance in the poorest parts of Lincilnshire and probably had no more concept of the Empire and it's activities than a flea does of the dog it is sitting on. Before you blame every Englishman for the ills of the world, examine the history and cut us some slack.
PurplePrincess wrote:
The 'nationalism' in this song is of the inclusive, left-wing/liberal variety, not of the dominant imperialist, reactionary variety that infects all levels of English society. See my post about this song below. This guy is in the same movement as Billy Bragg.
While I might have some problems with the message (Nationalism) I do love the traditional folk sound of this song
The 'nationalism' in this song is of the inclusive, left-wing/liberal variety, not of the dominant imperialist, reactionary variety that infects all levels of English society. See my post about this song below. This guy is in the same movement as Billy Bragg.
AphidA wrote:
He may have been brilliant but this statement, while cute, is philosophically-challenged.
Care to elaborate? It is a rather light-hearted quip, but it is erringly accurate. I don't see how you can argue with it philosophically.
As for the rest of your post, I see you are one of those Yanks and there is no debating with you guys. I just want to say that your post rather sums up what I saying.
He may have been brilliant but this statement, while cute, is philosophically-challenged.
Care to elaborate? It is a rather light-hearted quip, but it is erringly accurate. I don't see how you can argue with it philosophically.
As for the rest of your post, I see you are one of those Yanks and there is no debating with you guys. I just want to say that your post rather sums up what I saying.
While I might have some problems with the message (Nationalism) I do love the traditional folk sound of this song
AphidA wrote:
Agree. Bang-your-head-against-the-wall stuff.
From 3 to a 1. How could I possibly have put this at a 3?! God, this one sucks.
Agree. Bang-your-head-against-the-wall stuff.
Paul_in_Australia wrote:
I think the challenge for those who promote patriotism as being harmless is the inevitable spectre of nationalism skulking in the shadows. Or, as in this photo, strutting and posturing in the limelight.
Whatever the case with the photo, your claim does not enlighten us as to these tangible dangers which you allude to. Vague. What is "inevitable spectre of nationalism" anyway?
I think the challenge for those who promote patriotism as being harmless is the inevitable spectre of nationalism skulking in the shadows. Or, as in this photo, strutting and posturing in the limelight.
Whatever the case with the photo, your claim does not enlighten us as to these tangible dangers which you allude to. Vague. What is "inevitable spectre of nationalism" anyway?
multi instrumental talent, lyrics & voice - 8.
Atlantis wrote:
Does it really deserve a capital P? ;)
Well, the long answer.....
The very notion of a country is what causes most of the world's problems. By seeing yourself as from one nation, you are seeing those from other nations as different. This is, of course, very silly and leads to all sorts of trouble.
It makes no sense to be proud of a country. A country consists of many constitutional parts and it is an inanimate piece of land and metaphysical concepts. How you be proud of something you have no control over? Something that you had no choice in?
As Bill Hicks said when someone asked him if he was proud to be an American:
"I dunno. I didn't have any choice in it. My parents f***ed there, thats about it"
The short answer would be a quote from a French philosopher, who's name, (I am ashamed to say), has slipped my mind:
"What is a nation? A nation is a group of people with a total misunderstanding of their own past and a hatred of their neighbours"
'nations' are not the problem... it's just the latest development of 'tribalism'... but the problems caused by tribalism were around long before the moden defintion of nations or country existed... And Tribalism is so engrained in human nature that aboloshing the stystem that grew up around it will not make the problem go away...
Does it really deserve a capital P? ;)
Well, the long answer.....
The very notion of a country is what causes most of the world's problems. By seeing yourself as from one nation, you are seeing those from other nations as different. This is, of course, very silly and leads to all sorts of trouble.
It makes no sense to be proud of a country. A country consists of many constitutional parts and it is an inanimate piece of land and metaphysical concepts. How you be proud of something you have no control over? Something that you had no choice in?
As Bill Hicks said when someone asked him if he was proud to be an American:
"I dunno. I didn't have any choice in it. My parents f***ed there, thats about it"
The short answer would be a quote from a French philosopher, who's name, (I am ashamed to say), has slipped my mind:
"What is a nation? A nation is a group of people with a total misunderstanding of their own past and a hatred of their neighbours"
'nations' are not the problem... it's just the latest development of 'tribalism'... but the problems caused by tribalism were around long before the moden defintion of nations or country existed... And Tribalism is so engrained in human nature that aboloshing the stystem that grew up around it will not make the problem go away...
From 3 to a 1. How could I possibly have put this at a 3?! God, this one sucks.
Excellent lyrics!
I'm not English by the way, but cannot agree more with these guys.
I'm not English by the way, but cannot agree more with these guys.
I think the challenge for those who promote patriotism as being harmless is the inevitable spectre of nationalism skulking in the shadows. Or, as in this photo, strutting and posturing in the limelight.
garthwb wrote:
fbr />Careful... I personally think your Australian soap is, as with most soap, only fit to go down the drain with the filth. Only worse. And you may want to reconsider painting all people in any country with the same brush, and try avoiding sterotypes. I personally think some parts of Britain - and Ireland - are some of the most beautiful places I've seen, and I've seen many places around the world. It's not all dampness and squalor here. And I'm pretty sure there are many Australians wishing they weren't living in the squalid conditions they find themselves in, it's not all verandahs, suntans, youth and straight white teeth there, mate! I'm sure you're proud of your beautiful country, I'm sure it's beautiful (wherever you are from), and that your artistic and cultural heritage is colourful and varied, so try according others the same privilege. Don't endorse everything you read in some newspaper.
Sorry if the irony was lost on you. No offense meant!
fbr />Careful... I personally think your Australian soap is, as with most soap, only fit to go down the drain with the filth. Only worse. And you may want to reconsider painting all people in any country with the same brush, and try avoiding sterotypes. I personally think some parts of Britain - and Ireland - are some of the most beautiful places I've seen, and I've seen many places around the world. It's not all dampness and squalor here. And I'm pretty sure there are many Australians wishing they weren't living in the squalid conditions they find themselves in, it's not all verandahs, suntans, youth and straight white teeth there, mate! I'm sure you're proud of your beautiful country, I'm sure it's beautiful (wherever you are from), and that your artistic and cultural heritage is colourful and varied, so try according others the same privilege. Don't endorse everything you read in some newspaper.
Sorry if the irony was lost on you. No offense meant!
Crap. This song is about the roots of England which would be nationalism. Versus the 22 million American songs that are propaganda?
I am unsure why it is fascism for England to want to hold on to its traditions but admirable when you talk about South Africa.
Too many folk throw the word 'fascism' around like confetti. Fascism refers to a specific set of political ideologies and political movements. England these days is reactionary, right enough, and there are traces of fascism coming through (eg totalitarianism), but this song definitely does not celebrate reactionary the English nationalism of UKIP and the barking tabloids (Mail, Express, Sun). There are other forms of progressive English nationalism, which posit a multi-ethnic inclusive vision of Englishness, with a heritage of workingg people's struggles against authority going back to Wat Tyler. The estimable Billy Bragg is a well-known advocate of this approach, as outlined in his book "The Progressive Patriot".
This song definitely takes a progressive line, asking why the feck the Scots, Welsh and Celts in general can have a cultural and musical renaissance, whilst English folk music and progressive traditions are ignored or denigrated. To repeat wot i rote a while back:
"This song talks to all in the UK, and specifically England, in these highly-charged days of progressive Scottish and Welsh nationalism and reactionary English nationalism. It's a plea for a progressive English culture, for English folk to recover their radical roots (Wat Tyler, Levellers, Tolpuddle Martyrs, Poll Tax riots, etc, etc), reclaim nationalism from the nazis and fascists and White Van Men, and recover pride in themselves as the Welsh and Scottish have already done. "